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Thread: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

  1. #26

    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    This post made me realize something: not only is Obie the key to a high draft pick this year, Obie is also the key to a high draft pick next year! Bird is letting Obie **** away the season while not developing the youngsters with the hope of getting a top 5 pick. Then, NEXT year, the team will show no real improvement (due to the aforementioned lack of playing time this year) and will CONTINUE to lose and get another top 5 pick!

    Then we fire Obie, restock our roster, and have 2 top-5 picks to run with in 2011-2012! That one-year extension was genius!

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  3. #27
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    So if playground rules apply, Blake Griffin will be a no-brainer for the Clippers. As for the rest of the teams drafting after the Wizards at No. 5? Have fun picking from the booger-eaters.


    Please no booger eaters on the Pacers. :-)

    The Pacers really need to be in the top 5. I see the top 5 as Turner,Wall,Whiteside,Cousins
    and Favors. As relates to the Pacers.
    {o,o}
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by binarysolo View Post
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    This post made me realize something: not only is Obie the key to a high draft pick this year, Obie is also the key to a high draft pick next year! Bird is letting Obie **** away the season while not developing the youngsters with the hope of getting a top 5 pick. Then, NEXT year, the team will show no real improvement (due to the aforementioned lack of playing time this year) and will CONTINUE to lose and get another top 5 pick!

    Then we fire Obie, restock our roster, and have 2 top-5 picks to run with in 2011-2012! That one-year extension was genius!
    I don't think next year is a throwaway like this year is, though. As soon as the season ends, we have a boatload of expirings, which will have a lot of value (at least more so than they do now). I doubt we'll let them all expire without trying to get some assets from them. I don't think we'll make the playoffs, but I also think next year will be more of a "let the young guns do their thing" year, which would mean no O'Brien.

  5. #29
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    So how many of you will be screaming to high heaven about how poor the strategy is if we lose into the top 5 but then lottery back out of it? "Damn you, Larry, you should have shot the entire team in December and forfeited the rest of the games for that #4 pick."
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    I wonder if this team can do any better is there was no head coach.

    A positive for JOB is that if he's fired, I'm sure he'll become an assistant somewhere else.

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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If he comes back next season and is here for his fourth season he will only be behind Slick and tied with Rick.
    He would be tied with Brown too. Brown was here from 1993-97

    EDIT: I guess it is just 3 years if you ask Jay.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 03-05-2010 at 03:14 PM.

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  10. #32
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So how many of you will be screaming to high heaven about how poor the strategy is if we lose into the top 5 but then lottery back out of it? "Damn you, Larry, you should have shot the entire team in December and forfeited the rest of the games for that #4 pick."
    Not me. I understand probabilities. And I know that a 20% chance at a franchise player is better than a 3% one.

    How many of you will be screaming to high heaven about how amazing the strategy is if we luck into Wall or Turner?

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  12. #33
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    At this point, I agree that it's too late to fire JOB. That's why I wanted it done by mid-season, at the latest.

  13. #34
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Not me. I understand probabilities. And I know that a 20% chance at a franchise player is better than a 3% one.

    How many of you will be screaming to high heaven about how amazing the strategy is if we luck into Wall or Turner?
    I'll acknowledge we got lucky, but more in the "dodged a bullet" than the "took a reasonable chance" sense.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I will admit that having JOb helps you in June. The problem is swallowing the whole package for such a long time. Actually, the next time I watch the Pacers will probably be the draft.

    That's what she said.

  15. #36
    We need John Wall. Thesterovic's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Our chemistry was so good last year, that we got away with playing two point guards, playing Troy, and letting Roy give opposing players 12 FTA's per game.

    Now that our young players are ready to play in this league, Jim doesn't like them, and frankly, he'd rather play Jeff and Head than Roy and Rush.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

  16. #37
    Professional Beachcomber mildlysane's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    I hate to say it, but we are so bad that we can't even tank the right way! What a hilarious season.

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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    I'd love to see Minnesota and Golden State go on hot streaks to close-out the season. I want that #2 position.

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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    Our chemistry was so good last year, that we got away with playing two point guards, playing Troy, and letting Roy give opposing players 12 FTA's per game.

    Now that our young players are ready to play in this league, Jim doesn't like them, and frankly, he'd rather play Jeff and Head than Roy and Rush.

    Brandon Rush plays 29 mpg, which is easily more than Luther Head. Jeff Foster hasn't played for the majority of the season. Right now, Hibbert's minutes per game are right about what he played while at Georgetown. I think he's getting the appropriate amount of playing time given his current level of conditioning, experience and foul problems.

    Last year, the team overachieved and got away with employing some smoke and mirrors. This year, one of the key components of those smoker/mirrors (Jarret Jack) is gone. He was the 2nd best player in the 4th quarter, when most NBA games are won and lost.

    You're right that JOB likes playing Foster. And so did the 3 previous people who coached the Pacers. This year, he hasn't been available and that's hurt the team. Even losing Marquis Daniels has hurt. He was mainly a part time player, but he was effective in spurts. This year, they are completely missing that element. Even little things like Rasho being a better backup C than Solomon Jones factors in.

    All in all, last year's role players were better than this year's, which is a big factor. Then of course, you've got a much more hurt and beatup Danny Granger this year as opposed to last.

    Bottom line is last year's team didn't have that much margin for error to begin with. But with some smoke and mirrors, they found themselves in a lot of games that they had no business being in. They even won a few of them. This year (for various reasons), that margin has been totally zapped out of existence.

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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    New member here.
    I hate watching a team tank which is why I'm more of a college basketball fan than a pro fan, but I think it is probably the best thing for them to do right now. Hopefully we can get a good draft pick and build for next year. At least that is what I tell myself why I try and watch this team.

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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'll acknowledge we got lucky, but more in the "dodged a bullet" than the "took a reasonable chance" sense.
    More like "caught a bullet between our front teeth, spit it out into our hand and grinned while casually putting it in our pocket on the way to the bank with our newfound bags of something resembling, and that we hope actually is, gold" sense.

  22. #42

    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    I wonder if this team can do any better is there was no head coach.

    A positive for JOB is that if he's fired, I'm sure he'll become an assistant somewhere else.
    There will be a high demand for JOB as head coach for any team wanting to tank a season. He can make a career out of this, just like a bad boxer that pads other guys records.

  23. #43
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Rexnom - the draft is deep in PFs so there is no need to tank. Plus the difference between the 4th pick and the 8th pick is more than offset by the overall improved play by the 5 long term guys, especially working together (Price, Rush, DJones, Josh, Roy).

    The 4th pick won't be so much better than the 8th that it will make up for an utter lack of player development.

    Just look at OKC - are they improved more because of Harden or because Durant, Green and Westbrook got better the last 2/1 years. They benched Watson so Westbrook could play more, seems to be working out for them.


    Plus, while I like the younger guys and think they tend to play BETTER basketball, I think it's a big stretch to think they would make any real impact on the overall W-L totals this year. Maybe 2 more wins. Max.


    Firing JOB would not have made them win in Denver or Portland, it would just mean that NEXT YEAR in March vs Atlanta or Miami they'd be getting that much needed win to push for 41 wins. It's a long term strategy. In the short term nearly nothing would really change, its just too late for that kind of quick impact.

  24. #44
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I'll acknowledge we got lucky, but more in the "dodged a bullet" than the "took a reasonable chance" sense.
    Exactly. That's like patting a guy on the back when he hits the hard 8 with $1000 on the table.

    Going against the odds and praying for luck is not a "strategy", at least not a good one.

    As I said, the team needs PF help as much as anything and you could trip and fall into a PF in this draft. The Pacers will have a chance to take Patterson, and he's a prototype PF. Upside they maybe have a shot at Favors if they are willing to ride out 2 seasons as he dials it in (see Beasley for example, or Noah really).

    If they draft smart they can add two physical front line guys, Ndiaye seems poised to fall into round 2 right now and he's 7 foot, very physical in the block and a good shot blocker. Great bench big to go with your starting PF in the first round.

    The draft will not turn them around though because for the most part we might see all the main pieces back (TJ, Rush, Danny, Troy, Roy with Dun off the bench, Price instead of Watson, DJones). The draft pick will just take Tyler and Josh's place, not Troy's place. At least next partial season.

    Even if Troy is traded we aren't getting an offensive post guy probably, not a go-to scoring type at least. So again the impact will be slow and steady, not insta-fix.

    The draft is a helper this year, the fix is the guy you get for TJ/Troy/Dun contracts, and I don't mean an all-star or that total salary coming back. I mean maybe a Devin Harris level player. Less total salary, vet player that is border AS ala Danny.

    I also think all the team needs is that quality banger PF, that scoring vet and a new coach. Should be good to go for playoffs in 11-12 with that. No Wall/Turner required (though I'd esp. love Turner here)

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  26. #45
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Just look at OKC - are they improved more because of Harden or because Durant, Green and Westbrook got better the last 2/1 years. They benched Watson so Westbrook could play more, seems to be working out for them.
    O.K.C. improved because they already had a good talent level capable of winning 50+ games. All they needed was experience and to develop some chemistry, which they've done this year and the last. We're not at that stage yet. We need more than just experience and chemistry -- we need talent.

    Rather than compare us to the current Thunder, a much better analogy would be the '07-'08 Thunder (actually, Sonics).

    They had a great start (Durant and Green) but they needed more. We have a very good start (Granger and Hibbert) but obviously we, too, need more.

    Enter the #4 pick and Russell Westbrook, and now they're in business. This is our year to add our Russell Westbrook. Possibly even better.

    I'd like to think Price could be our Westbrook, but that's too big of a stretch. I'd settle for him being our Eric Maynor with Brandon Rush playing the role of Thabo Sefolosha.
    Last edited by Lance George; 03-06-2010 at 02:54 PM.

  27. #46

    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    O.K.C. improved because they already had a good talent level capable of winning 50+ games. All they needed was experience and to develop some chemistry, which they've done this year and the last. We're not at that stage yet. We need more than just experience and chemistry -- we need talent.

    Rather than compare us to the current Thunder, a much better analogy would be the '07-'08 Thunder (actually, Sonics).

    They had a great start (Durant and Green) but they needed more. We have a very good start (Granger and Hibbert) but obviously we, too, need more.

    Enter the #4 pick and Russell Westbrook, and now they're in business. This is our year to add our Russell Westbrook. Possibly even better.

    I'd like to think Price could be our Westbrook, but that's too big of a stretch. I'd settle for him being our Eric Maynor with Brandon Rush playing the role of Thabo Sefolosha.

    I like your comparison and analogy.

    Have you noticed since AS break how well Westbrook has been shooting the ball? In my mind, OKC needs a center to finish off their team for the future.

  28. #47
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    O.K.C. improved because they already had a good talent level capable of winning 50+ games. All they needed was experience and to develop some chemistry, which they've done this year and the last. We're not at that stage yet. We need more than just experience and chemistry -- we need talent.

    Rather than compare us to the current Thunder, a much better analogy would be the '07-'08 Thunder (actually, Sonics).

    They had a great start (Durant and Green) but they needed more. We have a very good start (Granger and Hibbert) but obviously we, too, need more.

    Enter the #4 pick and Russell Westbrook, and now they're in business. This is our year to add our Russell Westbrook. Possibly even better.

    I'd like to think Price could be our Westbrook, but that's too big of a stretch. I'd settle for him being our Eric Maynor with Brandon Rush playing the role of Thabo Sefolosha.
    We don't need a Westbrook. We need a Durant.

    Enter tanking, the #1/#2 pick and Wall/Turner.

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  30. #48

    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Opportunity cost of losing into top 5: 0
    Opportunity cost of winning 34-38 games: Top 7 draft pick

    What's the bullet? There's nothing to lose by losing into the top 5.

  31. #49

    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So how many of you will be screaming to high heaven if we lose into the top 5 but then lottery back out of it?
    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    How many of you will be screaming to high heaven about how amazing the strategy is if we luck into Wall or Turner?

    Not me. I screamed about Rick Carlisle and I screamed about Stephen Jackson.

    Now I'm until things start to turn around. I'll keep posting the "wheels are off" picture as long as it takes, but now isn't the time to scream about anything.
    .
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  32. #50
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: It's ok. We're tanking. For the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    We don't need a Westbrook. We need a Durant.

    Enter tanking, the #1/#2 pick and Wall/Turner.
    Sadly, we really need both a Westbrook and a Durant.

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