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Thread: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

  1. #51

    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    He had a concussion this year. I can't remember the game, but he took a really hard fall with a few minutes to go in the 4th and was questionable the next game with concussion like symptoms.


    The question I want to know is: is this better or worse than inner ear damage from an ear infection?

    *edit* a google search on tyler hansbrough concussion reveals at least 2 different concussions sustained while at UNC.

    12/16/07
    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22289260//

    2/17/09
    http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2...cussed-sunday/
    Last edited by imawhat; 03-05-2010 at 03:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Was his fall the night Dallas was in town?

  4. #53

    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    *edit* a google search on tyler hansbrough concussion reveals at least 2 different concussions sustained while at UNC.

    12/16/07
    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22289260//

    2/17/09
    http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2...cussed-sunday/


    This makes sense as to why the FO would be upset over no previous disclosure. Definately, look for a PF to be drafted now.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    The question I want to know is: is this better or worse than inner ear damage from an ear infection?
    I'm wondering if he ever had an ear infection in the first place.
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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I'm wondering if he ever had an ear infection in the first place.
    I doubt they would just make that up out of thin air. he is complaining of headaches (teams doctors already know that he had a concussion a few weeks back) they examine him, and just lie and make up an ear infection? that makes no sense. (I'm sure Bball will tell me I'm crazy)

    I believe he had an ear infection also and that is/was a factor in the dizziness......

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I'm wondering if he ever had an ear infection in the first place.
    My guess is that his dizziness became pronounced with the ear infection.
    Then, when the doctors kept examining him and clearing him to play, his play continued to suffer due to dizziness and vertigo. After the vertigo continued well beyond what the norm would be for an inner ear infection, they decided to investigate further and did the required diagnostic procedures to determine what the actual cause of it is, and eliminated things until they came up with this diagnosis.

    That would have lead to an investigation into his health records compiled during his college career, and possibly back into high school, and those likely show several incidents of either concussions or head traumas, confirming the diagnosis.

    The question may come up about the liability on Hansbrough and/or his agent contractually regarding the lack of disclosure of these previous injuries, whether they actually would have even realized that this could be a potential issue for him going forward. This could, unfortunately, become interesting going forward. If there is non-disclosure liability on Hansbrough, it may mean that the Pacers would not be able to be compensated for his contract by insurance if this actually ends his career because it would be considered to be a pre-existing condition.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    For a change the pre-revelation rumors were vindicating the Pacers (that this all was not disclosed prior to the draft), and people still are yelling that the FO is lying.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Actually, we had somebody who was supposedly in the know that said Tinsley's early "sinus infections" were actually really bad hemorrhoids.
    If that too is code for "Pain in the A**", then I agree...
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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Could the ear infection have trigged the effects of PCS? I mean both have to do with adjustments made by your brain; maybe his brain 'freaked out' a little bit due to the combination of its previous concussion damage combined with the adjustments needed to compensate for ear drum (or whatever) damage done by the virus.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Could the ear infection have trigged the effects of PCS? I mean both have to do with adjustments made by your brain; maybe his brain 'freaked out' a little bit due to the combination of its previous concussion damage combined with the adjustments needed to compensate for ear drum (or whatever) damage done by the virus.
    Deaconess health system has this to say about vestibular disorders...

    http://www.deaconess.com/body.cfm?id=844

    Looks like you're on to something.

  14. #61

    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Was his fall the night Dallas was in town?
    Very possible. 95% sure it was a home game. It was also pretty close in time to the game where Dahntay Jones took a really hard foul but finished the game.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I must be on ignore
    Hmmm...I missed that post. My bad......so you're saying that this is something that he could have gotten prior to entering the draft?

    Still....seems wierd to me.
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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    For a change the pre-revelation rumors were vindicating the Pacers (that this all was not disclosed prior to the draft), and people still are yelling that the FO is lying.

    Sometimes the elephant in the room is just an elephant, not a big gray tent with wire armatures made to look like an elephant in order to disguise the crates of rabid weasels.
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    But usually it's weasels, sneaky f****ers.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    For a change the pre-revelation rumors were vindicating the Pacers (that this all was not disclosed prior to the draft), and people still are yelling that the FO is lying.

    Sometimes the elephant in the room is just an elephant, not a big gray tent with wire armatures made to look like an elephant in order to disguise the crates of rabid weasels.
    what exactly are we talking about when we say that the FO is vindicated bc this "was not disclosed before the draft?"

    Whose job is it to disclose this stuff? Tyler's? He's supposed to volunarily say "I have PCS, so drop me into the second round," or what?

    Or is it team doctors' responsibility to test for it? Or is it the FO's responsibility to look into the number of (reported) concussions he had at NC, and take the risk that there would be aftereffects into account when making the draft choice?

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    As I understand it, all medical conditions need to be revealed by the potential draftee. That's the same as filling out a job application - things that affect your ability to do the job are supposed to be disclosed.

    Also, the reason PCS is so controversial is that there is no good way to find it except symptomatically. If you aren't showing symptoms - which is very possible - then it isn't detectable.

    So, on the one hand, if UNC or Tyler knew about it, it should have been disclosed. On the other hand, if they didn't know about it, no one could have known about it. In both cases, the Pacers FO is not screwing up here.

    As always, I'm all for slamming someone when the reasons are there, but coming up with arguments with no backing other than force of habit isn't a valid debate technique.
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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I doubt they would just make that up out of thin air. he is complaining of headaches (teams doctors already know that he had a concussion a few weeks back) they examine him, and just lie and make up an ear infection? that makes no sense. (I'm sure Bball will tell me I'm crazy)

    I believe he had an ear infection also and that is/was a factor in the dizziness......
    I'd be curious if there was anything to back up the ear infection diagnosis besides symptoms like pain in the ear and dizziness.

    I believe it's likely they misdiagnosed the ear infection to begin with because that was the simple answer to what he was experiencing. When the symptoms didn't subside as expected with treatment and rest, they looked further and uncovered what they believe is the real problem.
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  21. #67

    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    Deaconess health system has this to say about vestibular disorders...

    http://www.deaconess.com/body.cfm?id=844

    Looks like you're on to something.
    That's a good article. I suspect PCS is often used to describe a certain set of symptoms that may have been caused by a brain injury or not. Hansbrough is apparently dealing with a vestibular disorder, the doctors know that he had an inner ear infection and a concussion and can't really diagnose a single cause.

    FWIW, Scalabrine dealt with a serious PCS last season. Off the top of my head, he was shut down for almost 3 months with a couple of sporadic and unsuccessful attempts to come back earlier. Ok, let's look it up: he had his concussion in a game vs. Dallas in January 25th (Dirk's elbow to his head), played 3 games in late February, was shut down again and only returned for the playoffs in late April (you may remember the special headband he used, a la Jackie Moon).

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'd be curious if there was anything to back up the ear infection diagnosis besides symptoms like pain in the ear and dizziness.

    I believe it's likely they misdiagnosed the ear infection to begin with because that was the simple answer to what he was experiencing. When the symptoms didn't subside as expected with treatment and rest, they looked further and uncovered what they believe is the real problem.
    I don't understand the apparent desire to declare that there was a misdiagnosis involved. Why is a misdiagnosis more likely than the idea that he REALLY had an ear infection whose major symptoms subsided but left remnants that turned out to be from PCS?
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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    He had a concussion this year. I can't remember the game, but he took a really hard fall with a few minutes to go in the 4th and was questionable the next game with concussion like symptoms.


    The question I want to know is: is this better or worse than inner ear damage from an ear infection?

    *edit* a google search on tyler hansbrough concussion reveals at least 2 different concussions sustained while at UNC.

    12/16/07
    http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22289260//

    2/17/09
    http://ncaabasketball.fanhouse.com/2...cussed-sunday/
    I'm not finding anything on Tyler and a concussion this season. There was AJ who had the concussion and was out a few games.

    I'm also looking for anything about the fall, certainly I'm not finding anything to suggest he was diagnosed with a concussion as a result of that.

    Whatever you come up with would be helpful.
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  24. #70
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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    I've had a number of ear infections in my life and they were very easy to diagnose - the doctor would look in my ear and say yes you have an ear infection - here is a Rx. I'm sure the Pacers doctors can diagnose it rather easily.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    For those thinking that Hansbrough had some mysterious injury at UNC that wasnt disclosed.. Well you can stop right there because it isnt true. You dont average 20 and 10 while hiding a serious injury that could set you out an entire season. It isnt possible.

    He had already played this season and that proves this head injury happened during the season at some point and judging by the mini groove he was in before he started missing time tells us that he was fine at that point.

    IMO he had an ear infection and that ended up making his PCS worse by giving him lingering vertigo.

    For all we know his concussion could have happened while he was out.. He might have fell and hit his head or the ear infection just gave him some PCS symptoms.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I don't understand the apparent desire to declare that there was a misdiagnosis involved.
    Because that is how the Pacers roll...

    Seriously, you go to the doctor with some ear pain, some vertigo, etc and no history that would indicate otherwise, the initial diagnosis is going to be the simple one: Ear Infection.

    The doctor may or may not see some tell-tale inflammation when he looks into the ear but the other symptoms fit and the diagnosis is complete... until improvement doesn't follow normal treatment and timelines and they have to investigate further.

    Now that we're hearing this (PCS) was something that he had before being drafted (that the Pacers were unaware of), and we also hear he took an elbow to the head this season, it puts the initial diagnosis into more question.

    Factor in the rigors of NBA ball compared to college.

    IMHO It's no longer a slam dunk that he ever had an ear infection to begin with unless we hear that he had more symptoms to begin with that confirmed the initial diagnosis. We're probably not going to get that level of detail.

    The reason it matters is that if there wasn't an ear infection then that means this was triggered by simply playing the game and/or not so unheard of contact that happens during the course of the season.

    He may never get another ear infection, if he even had one this time, but I can almost guarantee he'll take more contact on the basketball court.
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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    I'm not saying there's a big conspiracy at play but I am saying that we might start preparing ourselves for the possibility that Tyler's career could be a short one due to this.

    He had several million reasons to play thru it and conceal this during his college career... but the rigors of an NBA season, the possibility that symptoms are worsening, and the level of emphasis being placed more and more on these type head injuries could mean medical advice will sway towards a shortened career.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  28. #74

    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Is PCS something that can be diagnosed on an MRI? Since the concussion presumably healed and there is no concussion presently the diagnosis has to be POST .
    I'm just wondering whether they are just making this diagnosis up because they have no idea what is causing his symptoms. No present sign of damage from ear infection or concussion from imaging so they make up a plausible reason for his problems.

    I am certainly not convinced they have any idea what his problems are. No conspiracy just a lot of doctors who are guessing. When the time for PCS symptoms to heal have passed they will have to conjure up another diagnosis.

    I still wonder how Bender got back the cartilage in his knees so he could play. Some possible cartilage regrowth is possible but he was said to have bone on bone.

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    Default Re: Jim O'Brien confirms that Tyler has post concussion syndrome

    Bender still doesn't have cartilage.

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