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Thread: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

  1. #1

    Default Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...must-earn-time


    "There's not a phase of the game where you can point to any of those guys and say they have that phase of the game down," O'Brien said.


    ....Well Jimmy, how the hell do you expect them to learn any of the "phases of the game" IF YOU DON"T PLAY THEM.

    And why do the vets not have to earn time? Because quite frankly, with the exception of Danny, I'm having trouble finding a vet that deserves time over a younger guy.

    Jim's just making excuses for himself. We won't get to see the younger guys play this season the way we want to. Another season lost for them.

    JOB's just a pathetic excuse for a coach.

  2. #2
    Member pacers101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    He's a total joke of a coach and what really bothers me is that Larry Bird lets him do whatever he wants. Bird should be sitting JOB down in his office and telling him that he has no choice but to play the young guys for extended minutes.
    Also his comments never make any sense. Of course the young guys have things they need to work on but so does ever veteran on this team including Granger... I am not going to pinpoint every one of their flaws since most of us already know what they are...
    Finally, this season is lost so let them get minutes so the can actually work on those things in an actual game.
    Oh and did I mention I can NOT stand JOB?

  3. #3
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Dear Jim,

    STFU.

    Sincerely,

    Pacers fans everywhere

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Following is a post from our own member O'Bird here at PD who has not posted here for months now.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...662#post917662

    The purpose is to open driving lanes. The team's offense has been most productive this year when Jones, Granger, Ford, Hansbrough, and even Rush have taken the ball to the rack and drawn fouls.

    Roy has been up and down in his low post effectiveness - mostly down in recent games, because he can't get good position. He has fortunately been able to score in other ways. But in any case he is not the center of the offense, and shouldn't be. On the other hand, coming off the bench against second-line defenders might be a good way to use his skills. Which brings us to...

    Regarding the lineup change: it's time to shake things up. The coaching staff can't pretend that things are working after the Charlotte game. Foster was one of the best players last year. Hibbert has made great strides as a defensive player, but he's not on a par with Foster yet, and the offense ran smoothest last year with Foster on the floor (some people will think I'm crazy, but I think I'm on solid ground here).

    Remember that Hibbert started a lot of games last season, but usually played minimal minutes in the second half - the crucial issue is how many minutes a player plays, or perhaps, as Red Auerbach said, not who starts but who finishes.

    I'm not worried about guys losing confidence and all that. If they're fragile, they probably shouldn't be on a team that aims to contend for a title in 2012. The league is for grown men, and championship teams are for players who can overcome adversity. If you're not getting the job done, be a man and go work on your game. It's a player's job to persuade the coaching staff that they need him on the floor.
    There are only 19 of his posts left from after the site crash, but it is uncanny how many of these posts seem to come straight out of O'B's mouth with the verbiage and phrasing he uses, including this one that happens to sum things up at the very end that explain succinctly the lack of development and the lack of respect shown to our young players. What do you think of the similarities to O'B's speech patterns and these posts, coupled with the viewpoints expressed, UB? You seem to be the main person who listens to all of O'B's call-in shows the most here, and would be more an expert on this than I am. Could this be him? Or, at the very least, due to his other viewpoints that seem to directly correlate with what we have seen on the floor this year, would you think that this person is either completely in tune with our coach or connected to him in some way?

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    Member pacers101's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    AHAH that does seem like it could be JOB!
    Well if it is him I really wish he would be more receptive to some of the things we post. He doesn't seem to like any of our ideas.

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    Member Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Really, O'Brien? Really?

    Rush is probably our best perimeter defender. He doesn't have that phase of the game down?

    Oh, but Dunleavy.... he's the total package, right?

    I'm with Shade. Just please, STFU.

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Following is a post from our own member O'Bird here at PD who has not posted here for months now.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...662#post917662


    Yeah, that is kind of creepy. To me the part about Foster stands out the most because when I read that in the Dunleavy article yesterday it blew me away.

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    Member Since86's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Following is a post from our own member O'Bird here at PD who has not posted here for months now.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...662#post917662

    No. O'Bird hasn't didn't say anything that a number of posters haven't/hadn't said.

    I put the possibility of Jim posting on this site somewhere between 0.0% and 0.0%.

    EDIT: Jim has always been able to put reason behind his decisions, they just don't work once their taking off paper and put into real life settings. Kind of like Communism. (sorry if too political) It's not hard to see WHY he does the things he does.

    The problem is, he keeps trying the same things over and over when everytime it blows up in his face.

    But it's easy to see, where in theory, it's a good idea.
    Last edited by Since86; 03-04-2010 at 12:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Let's be fair here......JO'B is not the first Coach to ever play favorites at the cost of developing younger players...much less ignore the weaknesses of some Players ( as in Murphy being a poor matchup for the vast majority of the Frontcourts in the league ) while totally benching a Player for those very same weaknesses ( as in starting/benching Hibbert due to poor matchups ).

    The #1 goal of the Coach is to always win games and JO'B ( as we have learned ) is the type of Coach that believes that he should give minutes to Players that he feels would win games ( specifically being too dependant on Vets )....obviously over the cost of developing younger Players or ( as Seth often points out ) determining whether a current Player fits the Teams plans for the future ( see McBench ).

    I don't agree with JO'Bs decision making ( cuz I think his reasoning is flawed given our current Playoff situation and that it is inconsistent from Player to Player ) but I don't fault JO'B for choosing to play Murphy/Dunelavy/TJ/Watson into the ground while letting AJ/McRoberts/Hibbert wilt on the bench. Why? cuz win or lose that's the way JO'B rolls.

    This doesn't mean that I agree with him.....given that it's a foregone conclusion that we will miss the Playoffs but ( at the same time ) I do not want to "mail it in" and tank for a draft pick. But I do not think that it's a bad thing to continue to try to compete ( with the ultimate goal of winning games ) while developing our young Players ( by giving Players like Hibbert, BRush and AJ as many minutes that they can handle....no more of this matchup garbage that is plaguing Hibbert ) and/or evaluating whether there are any Players on our roster that have a future with us or not ( as in giving more consistent minutes to McRoberts ).. IMHO both are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to do both....the only reason not to do it is that we may win one or two more games here or there ( which at this point makes no difference ) if we go with Playing Vets all the time as opposed to developing our youth.
    Last edited by CableKC; 03-04-2010 at 12:55 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No. O'Bird hasn't didn't say anything that a number of posters haven't/hadn't said.

    I put the possibility of Jim posting on this site somewhere between 0.0% and 0.0%.
    I appreciate your opinion. Normally, that is what I think, too, but in other posts he uses terms like, when referring to Harter, something would "warm his heart like brandy in his cocoa", or using the term "bugaboo", and things like that in conjunction with whatever he was saying. That sounds like "O'Brien speak" to me whether it is him or not. His Auerbach reference also reflects the stance taken by O'B when O'B defended his rotational decisions and starters vs. coming off the bench by indicating that he was really surprised by the importance placed on starting by some of our players after a few weeks earlier having indicated this very sentiment about it is not who starts but who finishes that is important, which I realize is an extremely widely held and perfectly valid view.

    You are far more likely than I to be right, but I thought I would throw it out there because I do feel that this post in particular is relevant (not, as Jim would say, irrelevant ) at least as a viewpoint, to this discussion.

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    pacer fan since 88-89 Mr_Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Dear JOB,

    Have you "earned" your right to stay here?? Maybe in Larry Birds eyes but not in our eyes. So I say STFU as well.
    And the walls came tumbling down.....

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    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Dear Jim,

    STFU.

    Sincerely,

    Pacers fans everywhere
    Similiar comment that I made in a different thread....

    Why the h*ll is it always JOB opening his mouth about possible trades? Most coaches usually STFU during this time period. It makes you wonder if he's the one causing some of these trades to fall through. Bird needs to tell JOB to STFU on trade situations. If you don't know then STFU. If you're not involved in the process then STFU. That's why I'm so frustrated. All these trade rumors surrounding Troy Murphy, and JOB keeps telling the media that no one will be traded. Trade deadline passes and ALL the teams that Indiana was rumored to be dealing with make other moves. Were all the rumors smoke screens for the fans????

    Please JOB, STFU for the rest of the season.

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    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Similiar comment that I made in a different thread....
    Wait, is Shade really ksuttonjr76?

    I'm kidding, but those O'bird, Obie quotes are interesting. It would be scary if Obie was reading all of this constructive criticism on here, though.

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    and there's this...

    Quote Originally Posted by O'Bird View Post
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    I remember when I coached Boston and Phillie, my Father in law Jack Ramsey used to say Troy Murphy is a heck of a player.

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Wait, is Shade really ksuttonjr76?

    I'm kidding, but those O'bird, Obie quotes are interesting. It would be scary if Obie was reading all of this HATE on here, though.
    Fixed.

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    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    I thought the reason he was extended into next year was so that he wouldn't feel the pressure to win now and, hence, would focus on player development and improve from this year to next.

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    I thought the reason he was extended into next year was so that he wouldn't feel the pressure to win now and, hence, would focus on player development and improve from this year to next.
    I thought is was so he wasn't lame duck status, meaning players wouldn't listen to him because he was out the door anyway.

    I'm okay with the extension actually. I see the psychology of the lame duck thing and even if he's gone, it's a semi golden parachute for going into a delayed rebuilding process.

    I'm not saying I agree that it should work this way, in general, but I understand that it probably does.

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    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    I don't think I can stomach to watch the pacers anymore until changes are made. Either with the rotation or the coach. The way things are looking, it will probably have to be the latter.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 03-04-2010 at 03:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Problem is the room for error is very small.

    You have to nail the draft, nail the trades, nail the coaching hire (if one is coming).

    Alot of things need to go really really well to start to turn this around, imo.

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Dear Jim,

    STFU.

    Sincerely,

    Pacers fans everywhere
    or

    Dear Jim,

    GTF out of here and back to Philly
    Sittin on top of the world!

  26. #21
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    How do they earn time if quality play isn't rewarded in any way?
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time


  28. #23
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    I don't really understand this comment. He's saying none of the young guys have ANY phase of the game down? Really?

    It sure seems to me that AJ Price has the "running the offense" phase of the game down, at least to a greater degree than our other PGs. Brandon Rush is our best defender. Roy's our best low post threat.

    Of course, I don't really believe that Obie values things like low post offense, wing defense, or a well-run offense. I think he wants guys who will gun away. So if that's what he wants, then the young guys certainly don't "have it down." But I'd love for him to at least be honest about what he's looking for.
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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Sigh,




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    Default Re: Young Pacers Must Earn Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    and there's this...



    Link?


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