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Thread: Why make this statement???

  1. #26
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    I understand what people are getting at and why you all are upset. I already said Jim shouldn't have said it. But I don't think it is a big deal. Jim is often very upset in his post game press conferences - he always has been after a loss. Call him on his radio show Thursday night and ask him about his statement and about Josh's play, I bet he has a different attitude towards it. Besides I would guess Josh wasn't doing a little jig in the locker room after the game all excited about his play

    I do disagree that this will in some way ruin Josh forever or that Jim has it in for Josh - I don't buy that at all.

    I do want to say something - it seems to me that many of you are suggesting that what Jim says in the media is exactly what he tells the players in private.

    Once again I'm shocked that there is any uproar over this
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-03-2010 at 10:21 AM.

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  3. #27

    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I am looking at the more general point of what good are stats in a blowout losss and if I were the coach would I get excited about stats in a blowout loss? No. I already said Jim probably should not have said it - doesn't really serve any purpose, although I think it is important for his players to not be concerned about styats when they lose.

    Well, to begin with, stats in a loss are true. McRoberts did score 15 points against a formidable opponent last night.

    Next, stats in a loss count the same as stats in a close game or a win.

    So, the answer to "what good are they in a loss?" is exactly the same as "what good are they" at any other time.

    It is always a mistake to apprise the validity of data according to how someone interprets or applies it. Data is doing its job if it is accurate and true.


    Quote Originally Posted by UncleBuck
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    I have heard him praise Josh, at the beginning of last season Jim often said that Josh is the pacers most athletic big guy and I've heard him say other nice things about him at other times last season and this season
    The beginning of last season is forever ago.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    I am sure that Josh realizes that because he showed up the coach in the first quarter last night by scoring 1/3 of our team's points and providing sorely needed effort and energy during meaningful minutes that, if he even sees the floor for us going forward with O'B as coach it will only be because the front office is dictating things unless we are down to about 7 available players.

    How in the world can such a display of our coach's arrogance be tolerated by anyone? It is one thing for players themselves to say that their stats don't matter in a blowout loss. That is modesty. What O'B has done here is the antithesis of that, and such boorish behavior on his part after a game he knew we did not have any chance in is quite indicative of who he is as a coach, and it removes much of the doubt as to why he lost this team shortly after the beginning of this season and why we had such a sense of that with the lack of effort being shown. No wonder the players wanted him gone, despite their professionalism in not saying so in the media.

    Our coach is definitely a little bully as a coach, perhaps for personal reasons due to family stresses related to the passing of his family member (mother-in-law, IIRC) that happened a little while back. If so, he needs to take a break, perhaps for the rest of this season, (only 22 games, so big deal except for the whole tanking thing that may not be well served by better performance)to help his family get through this difficult time. He won't be fired, so I am not even going there for this particular post.

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  7. #29
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    It wasn't Josh's stats that were impressive... it was his PLAY.

    I agree with the OP... wtf did O'Brien have to say that? Be mad that you're team didn't win, but never blame the workers, blame the management. Obie --- guess what. You're management. You're to blame.

    Can't wait 'til this guy is gone.

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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I do want to say something - it seems to me that many of you are suggesting that what Jim says in the media is exactly what he tells the players in private.
    Far from that.

    I am sure that with the filter of being on broadcast media, he understands the importance of relative decorum even when he is upset when the cameras and microphones are on.

    I feel that the fact that he was willing to go there is indicative of his willingness to go much further than that both in practice and off the court settings where there is no proof of what goes on between the coaches and players. That is the problem.

  10. #31
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

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  11. #32
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Far from that.

    I am sure that with the filter of being on broadcast media, he understands the importance of relative decorum even when he is upset when the cameras and microphones are on.

    I feel that the fact that he was willing to go there is indicative of his willingness to go much further than that both in practice and off the court settings where there is no proof of what goes on between the coaches and players. That is the problem.
    I think just the opposite. The comments last night were probably 10 minutes after a loss - he was upset, I hardly think he'll say anything like that to Josh today when either Jim or one of the other coaches meets with Josh to go over his play.

    By the way I have heard Jim be very disagreeable in his post game press conferences pretty much all season long towards many of the players. We've had several threads about it

  12. #33
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    By the way I have heard Jim be very disagreeable in his post game press conferences pretty much all season long towards many of the players. We've had several threads about it
    So he should just be excused for being a di*khead?
    I think not good sir.
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  13. #34
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    I feel Jim's comments were a tad ignorant. On the other end, I'm sure Josh wasn't jumping for joy of his game. The overall demeanor killed whatever "joy" I'm sure Josh or any other of the players had of his showing last night. BUT, at the same time I feel his efforts shouldn't have gone unnoticed.

    I feel that it's a better time than not to get him into the rotation permanently.

  14. #35
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Once again I'm shocked that there is any uproar over this
    Buck, we've ridden together on a lot of this, but I think you just jumped the shark.

    It is impossible for me to think you didn't see this coming the minute the words left JOB's mouth.

    I also can't believe you'd see this as an "oh, well" comment. There's a point at which the responsibility for the toads coming out of one's mouth has to hit home. If nothing else, with all the other piling on that is taking place, one would think JOB would realize he needs to be a little more careful about what he says.
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksRGarbage View Post
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    So he should just be excused for being a di*khead?
    I think not good sir.
    No, I'm not excusing it, just trying to put it into proper perspective. coaches especially right after a loss say a lot of things they shouldn't. Stan Van Gundy I'm sure in Orlando gets critized for his post game comments all the time and many other coaches too.

    BillS, Nooooo, say it ain't so, I thought we rode together until the season ends. No I have no one, nothing, I'm all alone - it is lonely,

    Does anyone have the video of the press conference?? I would like to see it

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Wells: Your team just got destroyed by the best team in the league, your lead scorer was embarrassed by Ron Artest, your point guard was joking around with players on the other team. You also have one of the worst teams in the league, as I like to point out...But let me just ask - were you pleased with how McRoberts played?

    O'Brien: (Bleep) you.

    Can't say I would be in a great state of mind to answer that question either...but it is sweet of all of you to stick up for young Josh. He might need a hug, too
    Last edited by nerveghost; 03-03-2010 at 11:03 AM.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    He did say soemthing nice about Rush (which he does quite often, but I know many of you don't think he ever does) I'll be looking for the next nice thing he says about Josh.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/game_100302.html

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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    The problem is no longer simply that JOB isn't in love with playing the kiddies. It's seeming more and more that he's actively and openly antagonistic against them.

    Brandon Rush? AJ Price? Josh McRoberts? For all of these guys, it's not just that Obie doesn't seem to be supporting them. He actually seems to be frustrated by their success.
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  21. #40
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He did say soemthing nice about Rush (which he does quite often, but I know many of you don't think he ever does) I'll be looking for the next nice thing he says about Josh.

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/game_100302.html

    Pacers.com

    “He’s trying to do whatever to score. I thought Brandon Rush did a really good job on him. He finds the way. If he’s not knocking down shots, he’ll get to the foul line. He’s a very aggressive player.” – O'Brien on Kobe Bryant
    How easy is it to find something good to say about your 2nd year wing after he just played a lights-out defensive game against the best scorer in the league?

    He doesn't get a free pass for that.

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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The problem is no longer simply that JOB isn't in love with playing the kiddies. It's seeming more and more that he's actively and openly antagonistic against them.

    Brandon Rush? AJ Price? Josh McRoberts? For all of these guys, it's not just that Obie doesn't seem to be supporting them. He actually seems to be frustrated by their success.
    Just ask Unclebuck, I'm sure its very frustrating to be constantly proved wrong every time the young guys get minutes.

  23. #42
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    There was no reason for JOB to make that comment at all. What does that do? I wonder if the players respect him as the coach, and if not, would a comment like that really motivate a player, or damage them?

    I love how he used the word irrelevant describing McBob's play. Well, that's exactly what his comment was, irrelevant.

    I just don't get this guy. New coach please.

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  25. #43
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think just the opposite. The comments last night were probably 10 minutes after a loss - he was upset, I hardly think he'll say anything like that to Josh today when either Jim or one of the other coaches meets with Josh to go over his play.

    By the way I have heard Jim be very disagreeable in his post game press conferences pretty much all season long towards many of the players. We've had several threads about it
    Again, this willingness to chastise multiple players (particularly Rush) in the media is indicative of either a complete lack of a filter on his part, which I highly doubt, especially after a loss of a game that he can't possibly be very upset about due to the infinitessimal odds of our even competing with the Lakers, let alone winning it, or if he does have a filter as most do when on camera or mic, he could easily be expected IMO to do far worse when those items that expose this behavior to the public are no longer present in a private setting.

    That said, I do think that he gets very upset over losing, especially when he looks bad in the process, which leads to defensiveness in his responses during post game interviews, especially when the questions are regarding anything that he has a hand in as coach. That is human nature, but with him it seems more pronounced IMO, and this reaction on his part after a game that has more positive meaning as a loss than it would have as a win was really uncalled for, but no apology or change in O'B will be forthcoming. It will be as if nothing ever happened, IMO, in his mind because it simply reflects his disdain for Josh and the questions that his lack of playing time are bringing, and likely will again until Josh is all but forgotten due to not being seen once more.

  26. #44
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    “It’s irrelevant. Try to do it in a winning effort so it’s really irrelevant.” – O'Brien on McRoberts' career-high


    Look at face value I get what he is saying, we lost so anyone's stat's are irrelevant.

    But why go out of your way to put down a guy who really tried his best? 9 of his points came in the first quarter when he was trying to keep the team in the game.

    Why is it I just get the feeling that if Danny Granger had a career high or if Troy Murphy got a career high this wouldn't be the statement that was made?

    My thought is that Jim might have gotten a question as to why he wasn't giving Josh more playing time and he took offense.

    Like I said, I understand the statement I just wonder why it had to be made?
    Peck, I totally agree. I hate when people play the semantic games or go with this "who really knows" angle as if we've never interacted with other human beings before.

    People have thoughts and emotions running inside, and no matter what they try those things will taint their comments. This is how experts learn to read for lying or even how your mom knew what you really had been up to.


    JOB is obviously feeling some pressure about Josh. He's continued to have a weird chip on his shoulder in regards to Josh, Rush, Price and Roy. I think because of their draft status he's been more willing to hold down Josh and Price, but he's aware of the outside desire for these guys to play.

    You non-attenders might not realize that their are catcalls from time to time and definitely big applause when these guys get in games. If Price were to come off the bench in the first quarter in Conseco at this point he'd get a huge round of applause.

    So JOB is on the defensive. He's not going to play Josh and he's pre-excusing it just like he did with Roy and Rush last year and Price this year. There's always a reason, usually one that could easily also apply to someone he's not complaining about.


    Did he dismiss Watson's first half assists because it was a loss?



    BTW, let's say you are Buck or BillS and want to defend this, let me ask this specific question - how does JOB's comments HELP DEVELOP JOSH? He plays well, does some good things, proves himself ready to go after a long period of DNPs and instead of just complimenting him and reinforcing those positives so he knows there is a reward for them, instead he digs at him like some barter person trying to drive down the price.

    He is HORRIBLE with the kids. Not just neutral, he's a big negative; a negative coach when it comes to developing youth on a team who's only reason for existence at this point is to develop youth for future seasons.


    I'm not using hyperbole when I say that this guy actually offends me, and pretty regularly. It's insulting to my intelligence and carries a mean-spirited streak as well. He's combative to the fan criticism when really if he'd taken some of that criticism to heart and mulled it over he'd see that ultimately a lot of it would help him out in the long term.

    And as we've also pointed out, he drew similar criticism from 2 Coach of the Year winners and guys who have both won 60 games - Phil Jackson and Rick Carlisle. If it were me I'd perk up my ears when guys with that pedigree had something to say.

    JOB is the guy that tells Ted Williams to pipe down when he starts talking about hitting secrets because he's got his own way and it's working just fine.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-03-2010 at 11:50 AM.

  27. #45
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    :insert foot into mouth: .... :look like a horses a**: ....

    I would have loved to be there & followed up with:

    "So Jim, lets turn the tables a bit. Let's say instead of looking at just one game's results we looked at the entire season's results, and lets say that you are Josh, & Larry or Mr. Simon is you, and this question was asked directly after the Houston game just last week, & the answer you gave about Josh's game was the same Larry/Mr. Simon gave when asked about you & that win - How would you feel?"

    Then:

    "Now Jim, lets put into contex that Josh is your youngest player, someone who has hardly played this year, who went up against agruably the best front line in the game today, on arguable the best team in the league, & 9 of Josh's points were in the first half that kept you in the game. Was Josh's contribution irrelavent in the first half because it was still a game, or was it made irrelavent in the second because Granger can't dribble, Watson started thinking he was TJ Ford, and you started worrying about being clowned for your coaching decisions by the Zen-Master again after the game, or is it both & are you pi$$ed because you will now have to answer even MORE McBob/PT questions?"
    Last edited by PacerGuy; 03-03-2010 at 11:45 AM.
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  29. #46

    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    He just doesn't like Josh. Everything he's said about him has been negative since the day he got here. There has been no explanation why this is the case but it clearly is.

    I concur, and have thought this for quite awhile. Personally, I feel Jimmy owes McBob and apology, but I my guess JOS wouldn't give McBob one. He'd be best just keeping his mouth shut instead of constantly making remarks that alienate the fans.... more. Tactful isn't a word I use in describing O'Brien. Nor one who has respect for other people's feelings.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 03-03-2010 at 11:45 AM.

  30. #47
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    How easy is it to find something good to say about your 2nd year wing after he just played a lights-out defensive game against the best scorer in the league?

    He doesn't get a free pass for that.
    Exactly.

    The fans (and announcers) were thrilled with Brandon's effort, and he was pretty solid going the other way too (with a couple of duds). This becomes "yeah, he did okay".

    That doesn't counter "he's just wandering through life, who knows what you'll get from him" right before Rush went on a nasty scoring binge which made him look dumb that time too.


    I've said just what Anthem is saying, JOB seems open antagonistic about the younger players, he seems annoyed when they have even marginal success that might warrant playing them a bit more.

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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    That said, I do think that he gets very upset over losing, especially when he looks bad in the process, which leads to defensiveness in his responses during post game interviews, especially when the questions are regarding anything that he has a hand in as coach. That is human nature, but with him it seems more pronounced IMO, and this reaction on his part after a game that has more positive meaning as a loss than it would have as a win was really uncalled for, but no apology or change in O'B will be forthcoming.
    So, what you're saying is he's from Jersey?
    .

    .

    .

    .


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  32. #49
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Catcalls from the stands, I had the luck to sit right behind Obie at the Milwaukee game. One time, I blurted out "put Roy in" to which my wife punched my arm. Anyway, I'm not one to ride the coach or yell like that, necessarily, but I wasn't the only one. It was interesting to see this, cuz you know he heard us and you know he wanted to tell us to go screw off.

    So ya, I think he maybe does pull the other way when he's being pushed by fans in the direction of playing the young guys.

  33. #50
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    Default Re: Why make this statement???

    Somebody should start a fire JOB thread.

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