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Thread: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

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    Default Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    After 16 loyal years and only a handful of missed games in that span I am giving myself a break from the team. I've made it through some rough moments with this team, but what happened tonight was a microcosm of everything I find wrong with basketball and with the Pacers.

    I cannot be devoted to a team that I find no joy in watching. The games, the strategy, and the team have been so poorly mismanaged that I see little reason to invest my time or money into the Pacers. Yes, it was a close game tonight, but we should've won by 30. Milwaukee played terribly.

    -Luther Head. He will not be with the team next year. 17 minutes.

    -Earl Watson. He will not be with the team next year. 39 minutes. The oldest active player on the roster played 39 minutes on the 2nd game of a back-to-back set.

    -T.J. Ford. He will not be with the team in two years. 39 minutes.

    -Troy Murphy. He will not be with the team in two years. 33 minutes.

    -Brandon Rush. Potential core piece. 19 minutes.

    -Roy Hibbert. Potential core piece. 11 minutes.

    -Dahntay Jones. Best defensive player and core piece. 11 minutes.

    -Josh McRoberts. Potential core piece. Did not play, coach's decision.

    -A.J. Price. Potential core piece. Did not play, coach's decision.


    I figured we'd get a chance to see A.J. since we started our 2 pgs. Nope. We did not start Roy Hibbert because "Bogut killed him". You know, as opposed to the other Pacers that successfully guarded him. Roy Hibbert had a 4" height advantage at times, but only got 7 FGA (we did attempt post entry a few extra times, but I'm still shocked by the previous game...no post entries to Roy until the 4th quarter).

    We're 20 games below .500 and the 8th seed has a .500 record. There are 24 games left. We're not developing the younger players AND we're wasting minutes on players that aren't part of our future. We're not playing to the strengths of our players (except Murphy). We're sending a season's worth of mixed signals to our potential core players and our President is giving our coach a vote of confidence. Our owner is giving our President a vote of confidence. And worst of all, the organization I've devoted all my support to shows no signs of changing AND insults my intelligence with puff pieces about how our youth movement hasn't stalled. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, as far as I'm concerned.

    I'm taking a break until there are some changes. I hope the organization is smart enough to see what it's doing to some of its core fans with its collective choices. I apologize for the negativity, and I understand if I get the "true fan" lecture, but this team has been too frustrating for too long. I think any Pacers fan that has supported the team for the last 5 years has been patient enough.
    Last edited by imawhat; 02-26-2010 at 03:03 AM.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Worst I've seen in the last 2 years. By far.

    And that is really saying something considering what I've sat through.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    IDK if it's the worst yet, but the 5 guards/wings in the game for the tip-in on the intentional missed free throw was epically stupid. Dahntay was matched up with Bogut. I think Roy and Solo would have made more sense there. Hell, even Troy Murder-me made more sense. Granger is a pathetic Offensive rebounder, so Dahntay made more sense. But, I'll stop there.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
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    IDK if it's the worst yet, but the 5 guards/wings in the game for the tip-in on the intentional missed free throw was epically stupid. Dahntay was matched up with Bogut. I think Roy and Solo would have made more sense there. Hell, even Troy Murder-me made more sense. Granger is a pathetic Offensive rebounder, so Dahntay made more sense. But, I'll stop there.
    We're tanking. I think that should be getting pretty obvious to everyone now.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    We're tanking. I think that should be getting pretty obvious to everyone now.
    we've been tanking this whole time - hence all these contradictions/etc - the team is trying to save face while tanking...

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    imawhat, posting this on PD is good......if not a cartharsis for you...as a fan. But the majority of the Posters here aren't the people that need to hear this......you're pretty much preaching to the choir.

    If anything....you should copy and paste this to whatever PR/Marketing/Sales Email list for the Pacers that exist out there.

    Hopefully, you will return on Lottery Ball Ping Pong day. As far as I'm concerned....that's the only thing that I have to look forward to.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    So is the consensus out there that the Pacers are pretty much tanking?

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    So is the consensus out there that the Pacers are pretty much tanking?
    I refuse to believe that TPTB and the coach can actually be this insane to think that they can win like the way they're playing.

    This feels too much of "lets screw up as much as possible to make sure we do not WIN".

    If this is a genuine try of actually winning basketball games - then I really don't know what to say to that.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    I'm kinda of getting tired with the McBob manlove. He's proven to be a spark, yes. He's proven he can hustle his butt off, again yes.

    But I thought last night's game was a great loss for the Pacers, meaning we got the job done by losing, but we also played competitively down the stretch. Tanking is pathetic, but at this point, I'm ready for the best pick we can get at this point.

    Stop getting frustrated, people. Yes, AJ Price not getting burn is tragic, but Josh McRoberts? Not so much. He's okay, and obviously a fan favorite, but I'd rather have a young Austin Croshere...

    And stop complaining about Murphy and Ford playing, pleassssse. We're trying to build up their trade value for the summer.

    and

    Price
    Rush
    Granger
    McRoberts
    Hibbert

    is a terrible lineup, but everyone acts like that's what our team would be best with.

    Honestly, AJ Price probably isn't the future at PG for us, sad truth, but it's probably a fact. And McRoberts probably wouldn't be in the league if it wasn't for us.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    I'm telling you guys, the front office may be tanking, hell the players may be tanking, but Jim O'Brien is doing this to win.

    This is what he believes. These are the players and plays that he feels gives this team the best chance to win. You don't have to agree with that, in fact you would almost be a fool to agree with it, but that is what he believes.

    He is so dedicated to his system that when it is failing and blatantly failing his answer is to believe harder in his system. It's never the system, it's the players not running the system to its design. It's never other coach's adjusting to the system it is the players not working the system correctly.

    I never in my life thought I would say this but I am going to go ahead and say it now.

    Isiah Thomas was a better coach.

    Hell his substitution patterns look thoughtful and sage compared to what we have seen this season.

    I will list the Pacer coach's that I think are worse than O'Brien at this point in time.

    George Irvine.

    Dick Versace (maybe)

    That's it folks.

    Bob Hill looks like a freaking defensive stawart compared to Jim.

    I want to so badly believe that he is throwing this season in hopes of a higher pick but everything I am seeing from him seems to be his M.O. for game play. I mean right now the only thing missing from this guy is a stove pipe hat, a black cape and a handle bar mustache, he litterally cartoon villain bad as a coach right now.

    I know this isn't going to sit well with the people who get upset at the over the top reactions to O'Brien (Notice I didn't say O'Brien defenders because there really are none of those) and maybe I'm using some hypebole, but I assure not much.

    I honestly do not enjoy watching the games anymore because of this clown.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    So is the consensus out there that the Pacers are pretty much tanking?
    This lineup was a joke. Tanking without giving our younger players a chance to play, develop and get some experience is just useless.

    For the sake of the Pacers' future, I want Price, Rush, Hibbert, Hansbrough and McRoberts (did I miss anyone?) to learn to play together, get a feeling for their teammates (not for the ones who won't be here next season), support each other on the court, get to know their limits and see what they can do and what they can't do!

    You can't just hope for a good pick in the lottery...these rotations are annoying, I'm speechless.

    I love the Pacers but I wouldn't pay money to watch a game as long as O'Brien is our coach (or at least as long as he sticks to his ridiculous rotations).

    Watson and Ford with 39 minutes each...wow
    Thank you Jeff.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Isiah Thomas was a better coach.
    FWIW, Jim O'brien beat Isiah in the playoffs with a less talented, lower seeded team.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    We're tanking. I think that should be getting pretty obvious to everyone now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexnom
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    So is the consensus out there that the Pacers are pretty much tanking?
    If we are tanking.... Isn't that usually accompanied by the players your trying to develop getting "some" playing time? Granted, some have issues of how much J. McRobberts is an NBA player, but isn't "THIS" the time to find out since we're tanking, allegedly?

    If we are tanking.... Why is A.J. Price getting DNP-CD's when we could be getting him some time with the guys that he may be passing the ball to in the future. Worse yet, does Earl Watson really need 30+ minutes if he isn't going to be here next season?

    Shouldn't games like this be where a Roy Hibbert gains experience against a division rival center that has hurt him earlier in the season?

    I know that there isn't a book out there on "tanking", but what we are doing just doesn't seem like it serves any purpose other then just losing. Most teams that seem to get accused of tanking have young players that get played major minutes as the team plays out the string. Usually that sends up a red flag to get this response, "Oh, Team P must be tanking because Vet Player X, Vet Player Y and Vet Player Z's minutes have been cut drastically".


    Also, if we are tanking.... Why does ANYONE not named Travis Deiner (Known quantity) get a DNP-CD?

    I just don't know what the hell we are doing, but if it is indeed tanking.... This is about the worst way to do it.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelz View Post
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    I'm kinda of getting tired with the McBob manlove. He's proven to be a spark, yes. He's proven he can hustle his butt off, again yes.

    But I thought last night's game was a great loss for the Pacers, meaning we got the job done by losing, but we also played competitively down the stretch. Tanking is pathetic, but at this point, I'm ready for the best pick we can get at this point.

    Stop getting frustrated, people. Yes, AJ Price not getting burn is tragic, but Josh McRoberts? Not so much. He's okay, and obviously a fan favorite, but I'd rather have a young Austin Croshere...

    And stop complaining about Murphy and Ford playing, pleassssse. We're trying to build up their trade value for the summer.

    and

    Price
    Rush
    Granger
    McRoberts
    Hibbert

    is a terrible lineup, but everyone acts like that's what our team would be best with.

    Honestly, AJ Price probably isn't the future at PG for us, sad truth, but it's probably a fact. And McRoberts probably wouldn't be in the league if it wasn't for us.

    It's a throwaway roster with a throwaway coach, so I wouldn't get all up in arms about it.

    I don't think JOB is the solution as coach, and I don't think McRoberts is the solution the PF solution either. Both guys will be long gone by the time the Pacers are a team that matters.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelz View Post
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    I'm kinda of getting tired with the McBob manlove. He's proven to be a spark, yes. He's proven he can hustle his butt off, again yes.

    But I thought last night's game was a great loss for the Pacers, meaning we got the job done by losing, but we also played competitively down the stretch. Tanking is pathetic, but at this point, I'm ready for the best pick we can get at this point.

    Stop getting frustrated, people. Yes, AJ Price not getting burn is tragic, but Josh McRoberts? Not so much. He's okay, and obviously a fan favorite, but I'd rather have a young Austin Croshere...

    And stop complaining about Murphy and Ford playing, pleassssse. We're trying to build up their trade value for the summer.

    and

    Price
    Rush
    Granger
    McRoberts
    Hibbert

    is a terrible lineup, but everyone acts like that's what our team would be best with.

    Honestly, AJ Price probably isn't the future at PG for us, sad truth, but it's probably a fact. And McRoberts probably wouldn't be in the league if it wasn't for us.
    I'm going to apologize now for being grumpy with you, it's just been a bad night.

    But are you kidding me about the Murphy and Ford trade value? Seriously???

    You honestly believe that not every G.M. in the N.B.A., not every scout in the N.B.A. and not every single coach in the N.B.A. knows every single thing about these guys? You think if we only play Murphy 20 min. a night the G.M. for (fill in the blank team) is going to say, well he must have an issue so I think I will hold off on trading him until next year to see if he is capable of playing big min?

    Really??

    We are playing Troy Murphy big min. for one reason and one reason only. Jim O'Brien loves Troy Murphy. I have no doubt in my mind that Jim has a poster of Troy right next to his Walter McCarty blow up doll.

    I know you are getting sick of the McRoberts manlove, but I am getting sick of anyone who asks anything about McRoberts of being accused of having manlove for him.

    Nobody, I will say that again, NOBODY has suggested Josh be given star treatment or min. We are saying stop using the 6'4" Dahntey Jones as a God D@mn power forward.

    Again, I am sorry for the ill temper. Not really directed at you, just season long frustration that has been building up over time.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    I just don't know what the hell we are doing, but if it is indeed tanking.... This is about the worst way to do it.
    Well, you're losing games pretty consistently, which most would consider to be the main objective of tanking.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I mean right now the only thing missing from this guy is a stove pipe hat, a black cape and a handle bar mustache, he litterally cartoon villain bad as a coach right now.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    I just don't know what the hell we are doing, but if it is indeed tanking.... This is about the worst way to do it.
    You don't want a Major League scenario to happen...


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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Natston View Post
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    You don't want a Major League scenario to happen...

    Exactly. I don't think Obie is tanking but I think the front office might be. If they fire Obie and they get a coach who plays the young guys, you might get a Major League effect. This is definitely the best way to lose games.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    We are tanking.

    Playing our young guys gives us a better chance of winning, and is counter-productive to tanking.

    So as a fan you pretty much have to decide if you would rather have more ping pong balls, or see the young guys get playing time.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    We are tanking.

    Playing our young guys gives us a better chance of winning, and is counter-productive to tanking.

    So as a fan you pretty much have to decide if you would rather have more ping pong balls, or see the young guys get playing time.
    Ding-Ding! We have a winner. This is exactly right. We can either develope our future players OR tank games for a higher pick. Maybe when our draft position is more locked in, we will see some of the younger guys getting more minutes.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    I don't think we'd be winning either way. Roster is too devoid of impact-ready-now talent and young line up lacks experience + the talent issue. So, being that all things are equal, I'd prefer to see more of the young guys.

    I think McRoberts should at least get 10 minutes per night to see what he's got consistently the rest of this way. Same with AJ. After the starting stint, you at least need to continue to get him on the court some. Our lack of rebounding is putrid. We have absolutely ZERO offensive rebounding. Bad consequences on both O and D.

    EDIT: And I agree with Peck, we don't have to play Murphy big minutes to showcase for a trade. Everyone knows what he can and can't do. Add to that the notion that he becomes primarily valuable for expiring reasons and it would seem that it's becomes even less necessary. Personally, I think Ford has earned back some time. We need his offense. Problem is he, like almost the entire team, is an absolute sieve on D.
    Last edited by D-BONE; 02-26-2010 at 07:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    But are you kidding me about the Murphy and Ford trade value? Seriously???

    You honestly believe that not every G.M. in the N.B.A., not every scout in the N.B.A. and not every single coach in the N.B.A. knows every single thing about these guys? You think if we only play Murphy 20 min. a night the G.M. for (fill in the blank team) is going to say, well he must have an issue so I think I will hold off on trading him until next year to see if he is capable of playing big min?

    Really??
    These are the same GM's that sometimes watch a marginal player for 4 years in college and then grab him because he has a great workout. That sort of thing happens every year, so yes I believe with some GM's the last thing they see is what they remember.

    As for JOB tanking, I don't remember him being this bad before. And we do have other years to compare this years coaching job to.

    Wouldn't you sub you best rebounders at the end of a game if you needed a tipin to tie? That chinched it for me.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 02-26-2010 at 07:13 AM.

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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    These are the same GM's that sometimes watch a marginal player for 4 years in college and then grab him because he has a great workout. That sort of thing happens every year, so yes I believe with some GM's the last thing they see is what they remember.

    As for JOB tanking, I don't remember him being this bad before. And we do have other years to compare this years coaching job to.

    Wouldn't you sub you best rebounders at the end of a game if you needed a tipin to tie? That chinched it for me.
    Who would the best rebounder(s) be?

    Rush and D. Jones? SG/SFs are your best rebounders. You know you're hurting. Murphy deserves mention, but since this is an offensive rebound scenario predicated on quickeness and athleticism, he'd be marginal at best. Granger should be a better rebounder IMO. With his size and athleticism he should be one of the better rebounding SFs in the NBA. 8-9 rpg avg. is not too much too ask.
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    Default Re: Tonight's rotation was the last straw

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I mean right now the only thing missing from this guy is a stove pipe hat, a black cape and a handle bar mustache, he litterally cartoon villain bad as a coach right now................ and maybe I'm using some hypebole, but I assure not much.


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