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Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

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  • #91
    Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    I'm going to disagree with you a bit, especially because of how he played in college when I first said he was very "McKey-like" or "unselfish to a fault", without knowing his numbers at the time even.

    What would happen with him is he would defer to Chalmers and Arthur to be the main attack, but then there were periods of time when it would just be obvious that he needed to be the scorer and he'd suddenly go off with some pretty big plays. He was unbothered by pressure situations IMO.

    I don't think he shied from the spotlight at all, he just has an instinct to avoid being a chucker.


    I thought BlueNGold made a really good comparison to what Jackson brings at SG, the fire and aggressiveness. But that's not the only way to play SG.

    The issue for the Pacers is they never replaced what Jackson brings, so it stands out as missing with Rush. I think some of that is on Granger. If Rush can play next to ALL-STAR Danny rather than what we've had most of the year and Roy or a "set you up" PG, then I think he works great.

    Even as a bench SG, he's not going to come in ala Ford/J Terry and take 12 shots in a hurry. Obviously Jackson would. Sometimes that helps, sometimes that hurts. Rush plays from the POV of "avoid hurting the team". That can be frustrating in what is missing, but at the same time we aren't being frustrated by a slew of horrible FG attempts.

    I mean I really have been a fan of Jackson's game, but good lord did he have those 4-16 nights that you just wanted him to stop too. You won't get many of those with Brandon.
    I hope you are right.

    But, let me clarify. Just because Brandon defers doesn't mean he doesn't need to be clutch. In my way of viewing things, all five players on the floor at the end of the game need to be clutch.

    I don't see Derek Fisher as a great All-Star player. But that's the kind of guy you need on the court at the end of the game.

    I'm less interested if a guy has great stats or great abilities than I am if he rises to the occasion at the end of games like a Derek Fisher.

    Regarding McKey, I can remember some games when he choked at the end and a few where he rose to the occasion. But he was at least good enough to be an enigma. Don't know if Brandon can even reach that level.
    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

      Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
      I think Brandon is so underrated here. I think he is much more than just a serviceable SG.
      I think you overrate Brandon....he may end up as a good player, but he's not right now.
      Go Pacers!

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

        Originally posted by Thesterovic View Post
        Never say **** Larry Bird. You should be proud to have a legend like him to represent Indiana. If it weren't for him and Magic, basketball wouldn't be televised and the likes of Lebron James and Kobe Bryant would be living on buses or trailer homes if they wanted to play basketball as a career. They are the ones that kept the wheels spinning. No one would like basketball, and the glory days of high school basketball in Indiana and those Hoosiers would only be a faint memory, and no one would care just like no one around here cares who wins the rugby national championship. If it weren't for basketball, I at least wouldn't be nearly as close to my friends and my father as I am because of basketball.

        Unfortunately dude, I am only 25 years old. I never got to experience Larry Legend being anything great in Indiana. Sure he was from French Lick when I remember him playing in Boston at a very young age. As proud as I am one of the greatest ball players ever was a white boy from southern Indiana, I was never able to be a fan of him as a player. Plus I dislike Boston sports franchises.

        I grew up with Bob Knight and Reggie Miller being my basketball heroes. Calbert Cheany, Glen Robinson, etc....Bird only became relevant to me when he took us to the Finals...I became a huge fan of him.

        I went to high school where Bob Ford played. I always thought of him as an icon to me...

        I really was probably the biggest Bird koolaid drinker in the beginning. This franchise is being driven into the ground or its on its way to being great again. The jury is still out on Larry. Get us back to the top and I will love him. Drive us into the ground like he has since the Finals even further, then I'm sorry bub but I will HATE him. The Indiana Pacers are my team, and I will always be a kool aid drinking homer. We better finish top 5 in the East in 2011-2012 or I will consider this decade long experiment of his a failure. The three year plan is longer than three years.

        I believe in every single player he has drafted since Walsh left, and every move he has made. His hands are tied.

        So actually what I am saying is if he is really about to trade Rush because of O'Brien, then he needs to go. Rush is part of the solution, O'Brien is part of the problem. So if he is in any way putting O'Brien higher than Rush, Hibbert, Price, Granger, then **** him he needs to go. What don't you get here? This idiot coach should not be coming before any of our players.

        Now if Larry traded Rush and it made us better at defending the paint then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

        So my plea is to Larry is the Pacers are Indiana's team. Do the right thing and fire O'Brien or tarnish your image forever to us Indiana white boys. Great ball player, terrible GM.

        Do it Larry FIRE HIM. Be a GOOD GM. We HAVE a TOP 5 PICK coming if we tank out. next year it will be so easy to get a coach to come play for a team with

        My only hope is Larry gave O'brien the extension because he was going to force him to tank it, which means the fans will have his head for seeing Indiana loose more than we ever have. It's like maybe O'brien could have gotten us into the playoffs, but he seems to be doing everything in his power to keep us loosing. I don't know anymore. We have been pathetic ever since the brawl IMO. Thats starting to be a long time. Don't tell me were any good after the brawl when teams literally dunked on us so bad you could have made a room full of posters in a week. The New Jersey playoff loss still comes to mind...Yea that season really got us somewhere. Who did we draft that year?

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        • #94
          Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

          While I think it is in the best interest to fire Jim O'Brien, it really shouldn't be done until the end of the season. We would have no interim coaches. Lester is Jim's best friend, Harter is too elderly, etc.

          And the Brandon trade; we lose one prospect and a bad contract and get two prospects back on top of a good back-up big. Nazr has been key to their success this season, and the only reason they were going to part with them was to get Tyrus Thomas (which makes no sense to trade him for a first round pick).

          It's not just Larry that runs this team either. It's Morway too. Just so you guys are aware.
          "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

          Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

            I agree Thesterovic. Very nice post. Same to you too Seth.

            The one thing I wish Brandon would not do is go back to his hometown in Kansas again this off-season. I think he needs to ask his fellow Kansas alum Paul Pierce if he can work out with him this off-season. I think that PP would help supplement in BR the things he struggles with. PP has go to moves, he has fire, he has a scorer's confidence, and he demands the ball. These are all things BR could develop.

            Also, PP is a very hard worker in the off-season, especially having KG and RA around, who are notorious for their great work ethics. BR has a great work ethic but he needs direction from players who are great. Who understand what it takes to be great and BR needs to learn from those kind of players who are veterans that can show him what he needs to become a complete player. Paul Pierce is exactly who BR could use to help him get better.
            "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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            • #96
              Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

              Originally posted by Midcoasted View Post
              Unfortunately dude, I am only 25 years old. I never got to experience Larry Legend being anything great in Indiana. Sure he was from French Lick when I remember him playing in Boston at a very young age. As proud as I am one of the greatest ball players ever was a white boy from southern Indiana, I was never able to be a fan of him as a player. Plus I dislike Boston sports franchises.
              Yeah, I'm in this boat too. Besides coaching our 2000 Eastern Conference championship team, I have no real allegiance to Larry Bird. I don't care about Indiana St. and I absolutely don't care about the Celtics. He was a good coach (the players respected him, which is half the battle, even if Carlisle was doing the majority of the actual coaching), but as a GM, I can't say I'm a huge fan.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                [QUOTE=cdash;963620]

                I don't care about Indiana St. /QUOTE]



                I wonder if Bird still has any contact with Walker, Nicks, Reed, or Heaton.? I for the life of me can't remember the kid who played center. I can see him in my mind, I just can't remember his name.

                And yes, I remember the shot Heaton made to keep State undefeated until Michigan State in the NCAA finals game. I always wished Bird hadn't been injured going into that game.

                The game Bird played against, T-Birds big rival in Greene county, Bloomfield was a sell out to see Bird play. That's what I heard.
                Last edited by Justin Tyme; 02-21-2010, 08:24 PM.

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                • #98
                  Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                  Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                  Hee hee.

                  Now we know that the cuss blocker won't allow S H / T


                  .

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                    Originally posted by Squirrelz View Post
                    WHAT DOES TPTB MEAN???

                    lol
                    What does FTW mean? If it means what I think it does, then I've seen it where it doesn't make sense also.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                      Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                      I for the life of me can't remember the kid who played center.
                      Alex Gilbert ??

                      I did get a chance to see an ISU game during their run to the title game. I came away from it being mildly impressed with Bird. ISU won, Bird had a good game, big deal.

                      Next day, I saw in the paper that he had something like 40 points, 20 boards, a dozen assists, a bunch of steals .............. it's hard to imagine a guy putting up those numbers 'in the flow of the game', but he certainly did.

                      He's still bad as a GM though.
                      Last edited by PacerDude; 02-21-2010, 08:57 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                        If we had a dominent front line and a winning record. Everybody would love Rush, and would call for somebody's head if he were traded. Just my opinion.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                          Originally posted by Erik View Post
                          What does FTW mean? If it means what I think it does, then I've seen it where it doesn't make sense also.
                          For the win or **** the world. Mostly, for the win.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                            Originally posted by speakout4 View Post
                            Sins of omission, sins of commission. As McGee fan pointed out when someone needs to step up at crunch time he's still deferring to someone else.
                            He seemed to.

                            But I remember the fact going around the Derrick McKey actually lead the league in last-second, game-winning scores one season. (I'll try to find a link.)

                            It might have been the last season he was with Seattle -- not even when he was with the Pacers -- but he did prove that he could be clutch if the team needed him to be.
                            And I won't be here to see the day
                            It all dries up and blows away
                            I'd hang around just to see
                            But they never had much use for me
                            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                            Comment


                            • Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                              Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                              Hee hee.

                              Now we know that the cuss blocker won't allow S H / T


                              .
                              And yet it just did.


                              Happened to me recently too.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

                                Originally posted by EmCeE View Post
                                If we had a dominent front line and a winning record. Everybody would love Rush, and would call for somebody's head if he were traded. Just my opinion.
                                To me it would be about how I felt when they traded Jax for Rose. I was really excited about how Rose looked in Denver and understood how getting him helped...but I hated losing my favorite player.

                                In the end it all worked out, and when you think about Brown (who ironically created that trade) it could work that way this time too. We get Henderson, then 6 months later Rush is buried on the bench because Larry hates him, we pick him back up on the cheap.


                                Personally I'd prefer to get Henderson without losing Rush, Roy or Price.

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