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Thread: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

  1. #51

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I think Brandon is so underrated here. I think he is much more than just a serviceable SG.

    It's not what you think that matters, it comes down to what TPTB think. It's not whether you are right as a pro-Rush fan or a anti-Rush fan is right, it really comes down to what TPTB feel is right. I'm not saying that's best or they are right, b/c I can point out what I feel is poor judgement on many of TPTB decisions.

    Maybe TPTB just don't think Rush is strong enough. That he's just too soft for what plans Bird has for the future.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    It's not that he's underrated.

    The issue is. There are more all star type shooting guards than any other position, well you could argue that SF is more common.

    But here's the thing, if you stick with Rush as your SG, instead of getting an all star there, it's going to be much harder to find an all star PF or PG to be the "third" player to go along with Roy and Danny.

    I want Rush to stick around, I like him a lot. And I think teams don't have to be built on all stars, but good players playing good basketball. But if the "Two all star" or all star caliber players is the route JOB and co want to take, then the easiest position to upgrade at is the SG.

    Now, I'd much rather have Rush than Henderson.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    It's not what you think that matters, it comes down to what TPTB think. It's not whether you are right as a pro-Rush fan or a anti-Rush fan is right, it really comes down to what TPTB feel is right. I'm not saying that's best or they are right, b/c I can point out what I feel is poor judgement on many of TPTB decisions.

    Maybe TPTB just don't think Rush is strong enough. That he's just too soft for what plans Bird has for the future.
    Again, what's wrong with trading Brandon if you think you're getting equal or greater value back?

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  5. #54

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    The potential is there...wrong coach to bring it out.

    That may be true, but if Jimmy is going to be here for the next 18 months how is that going to help Rush? Maybe TPTB decided they don't want to invest another 18 months in Rush, but another player instead for the future. Maybe all they see is a Kareem Rush that can play better "D".

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Larry Brown was salivating at the prospect of having Brandon Rush playing for him in Charlotte. Defense. Defense. Defense.

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Larry Brown is the JOB of defense. Stubborn to the point of inefficiency.

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    That may be true, but if Jimmy is going to be here for the next 18 months how is that going to help Rush? Maybe TPTB decided they don't want to invest another 18 months in Rush, but another player instead for the future. Maybe all they see is a Kareem Rush that can play better "D".
    Where I come from, if the employee is not performing to their potential, then you change the leadership. Basically, they rather invest 18 more months in another player only to watch him fail under JOB's leadership? That don't make sense to me. This team is not going anywhere under JOB...period.

  9. #58
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    This Rush trade talk has me seriously worried about the competence of our front office and, of course, our coach from what he has said in the past.

    Brandon is probably the smartest player on the team as well as the best defender by far. Probably our best pure shooter and he plays within the flow of the game not forcing things (aka passive). I am going to be seriously pissed off if they trade him. He is a glue guy that all teams need.

    AMEN brother...



    Once Brandon gains that consistancy.. all bets are off..

    What if we had jumped the gun and traded Reggie at the same point in his career that brandon is at ..??

    the reason Rush is only averaging 8 pts is consistancy and his passiveness... nothing is stopping him from averaging 14 to 16 per game but himself.. but having good teammates and a coach who runs plays for you certainly helps..lol

    I just think that we have a definite diamond in the rough, and he will grow into his own to be a very nice piece to a playoff team in the not so distant future..
    For some reason, Brandon reminds me alot of a player in the mold of Shane Battier

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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I think Brandon is so underrated here. I think he is much more than just a serviceable SG.
    I wonder... does anyone think he would prally play better at the 3 spot as danny's backup .. but also sharing some minutes at sg..??

    something to ponder



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    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Again, what's wrong with trading Brandon if you think you're getting equal or greater value back?

    Why would you want "equal" ?? lol

    Wouldnt the point be to upgrade from Brandon.??

    If all there is .. is "equal" value.. no thanks .. I'll keep Rush..
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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  13. #61

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    I wonder... does anyone think he would prally play better at the 3 spot as danny's backup .. but also sharing some minutes at sg..??

    something to ponder
    He certainly is big enough to play SF. The dude has a freakin' barrel chest. He is one of the biggest SGs in the league.

  14. #62

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    It's not what you think that matters, it comes down to what TPTB think. It's not whether you are right as a pro-Rush fan or a anti-Rush fan is right, it really comes down to what TPTB feel is right. I'm not saying that's best or they are right, b/c I can point out what I feel is poor judgement on many of TPTB decisions.

    Maybe TPTB just don't think Rush is strong enough. That he's just too soft for what plans Bird has for the future.
    Well it matters what I think here as much as anything anyone ever wrote... So I don't get your point. Hence my potential criticism over TPTB. I would have to consider the possibility that they are not very good at their jobs. That is what we do here. Discuss the Pacers and post our opinions right?

  15. #63

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Again, what's wrong with trading Brandon if you think you're getting equal or greater value back?


    Go back in my reply to Putman who disagreed with my post #15. I pointed out that there was a different way of looking at it than his way. I stand by my post of how I feel regarding what this possible trade says about Rush. I feel that proposed trade has shown TPTB want to go a different direction concerning Rush's future as a Pacer.

    Now, here is the kicker, I posted in the Charlotte trade thread I was in FAVOR of the trade. I feel that the trade of Henderson and Augustin for Rush was fine. That says one of 2 things, either both Henderson and Augustin are valuable, or Rush's value wasn't that much that he was traded for 2 seldom used players. Each person has to decide for themselves which.

  16. #64

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Well it matters what I think here as much as anything anyone ever wrote...


    Hence my potential criticism over TPTB. I would have to consider the possibility that they are not very good at their jobs.

    that is what we do here. Discuss the Pacers and post our opinions right?


    ABSOLUTELY! Your opinion matters. My point is that it doesn't matter what you think, I think, or any poster thinks, it's what TPTB thinks that matters.

    You and I couldn't be more in agreement. By now you should know, I'm Bird's biggest non-GM fan.

    Yep, and we both know my opinion is always right.

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    Why would you want "equal" ?? lol

    Wouldnt the point be to upgrade from Brandon.??

    If all there is .. is "equal" value.. no thanks .. I'll keep Rush..
    Because you might want a different piece that fits your team better. In our case, we need all the young talent we can get, and we certainly need more talent at the 1. So turning a young SG into a young PG and another young SG works for me.

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I think Brandon is so underrated here. I think he is much more than just a serviceable SG.
    He has the physical ability to be much more than a serviceable SG. I am not convinced he has it from a mental standpoint. It's his passivity...which is integrated into his personality...and his game.

    He is the McKey enigma, but not nearly as good of a player. As a result, I think the Pacers have concluded that he is "at best" a backup SG...which makes him expendable for other pieces that might fill gaps.

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  21. #67
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Larry Brown would make Rush an All-Star.

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    I don't see Rush as a gamer.

    More important than stats, much more important I believe, is how a player performs when it really counts. Great players get better when things get more intense. They rise to the challenge and succeed when the pressure arrives.

    I have seen very little to suggest Rush is this kind of player. I've seen a few hints here and there that AJ, Tyler, and Roy fit this category. Danny has already proved it.
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  24. #69
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    To me Rush is a Raja Bell/Derrick McKey. Henderson would be a step down. Texas struggled when Augustin was the man. To me DJ is not a starting PG in the NBA. (unless you have JOB as your coach - no defense - and you want to continue being bad. Nazr is a crappy big, which you can get cheap in FA (ala the Spurs). I'm really questioning TPTB now. A quality draft pick and a new HC is what I'm hoping for... Not DJ.

  25. #70

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I don't see Rush as a gamer.

    More important than stats, much more important I believe, is how a player performs when it really counts. Great players get better when things get more intense. They rise to the challenge and succeed when the pressure arrives.

    I have seen very little to suggest Rush is this kind of player. I've seen a few hints here and there that AJ, Tyler, and Roy fit this category. Danny has already proved it.
    But it is not like Rush is being considered the 1st option on this team like Danny, or even the 2nd option like Murph, I think he should/could be, but that is up to our coach

    Are you really putting expectations on him to be like Danny when he isnt even the 3rd or 4th option in our offense? When he gets the ball passed to him it is usually to feed Hibbert, or as part of a play to get a shot for Danny. The open shots he does have he ususally takes. He does what is asked of him, I just don't get why people want to give up on him for unproven players.

  26. #71
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Now, here is the kicker, I posted in the Charlotte trade thread I was in FAVOR of the trade. I feel that the trade of Henderson and Augustin for Rush was fine. That says one of 2 things, either both Henderson and Augustin are valuable, or Rush's value wasn't that much that he was traded for 2 seldom used players. Each person has to decide for themselves which.
    Hard to decide value when Charlotte's management decided they didn't think the deal was fair.

    Our front office thought Ru****J was a fair trade for Nazr/Henderson/Augustin. Charlotte didn't agree. We don't yet know who's right.
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  27. #72

    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    I'm just wondering how 'passivity' and 'not a gamer' is much of a difference from lazy and uninterested.

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  29. #73
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    I'm just wondering how 'passivity' and 'not a gamer' is much of a difference from lazy and uninterested.
    It's a matter of degree...and when you compare ultra intense guys to less so intense ones. In any event, I doubt anyone who made it to the NBA is lazy. Genetics helps a ton, but the league is too difficult for people who are truly lazy.

    Skills and/or physical ability are a given in the NBA. Rush appears to have both...but to be a good starting SG in the NBA, you really need something more.

    Maybe it's leadership. Maybe intensity. Maybe passion. Maybe intelligence. Maybe a little on-court swagger. I don't know what it is, but I have yet to see Rush demonstrate "what it takes". His brother, in some ways is similar. Brandon is clearly the better defender, but otherwise he may not be that much different than Kareem. ...which is fine if you want a backup SG, but not enough if you want a good starting SG.

    I do agree with some posters here that it could be a coaching or coaching style issue. The bottom line is that I think this is less on JOb and more on Brandon. I'm not a JOb fan btw...and I do like Rush for the most part. But the truth is the truth.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 02-20-2010 at 10:56 PM.

  30. #74
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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    BTW, Derrick McKey broke some hearts along the way too. He had an incredible amount of talent. At 6'11", the dude was quick enough to guard Michael Jordan pretty well. He also had a picturesque stroke and a pretty drive to the bucket. He could do it all. But he just never did enough for those who recognized his treasure trove of talent.

    Here's an example. If McKey had Reggie Miller's passion for the game, McKey would have easily been the best player in Pacer history...and would be headed to the HOF. But Derrick instead had Brandon's personality which lacks outward emotion, aggressiveness, killer instinct, swagger, passion....all of those intangibles. Intangibles that a less talented player in Stephen Jackson has by the barrel.

    Edit: BTW, whether Brandon is actually more talented than Jackson, I'm not at all sure. I do know that Brandon has the talent to be both a better shooter and probably better defender. But at this rate, he is not a spring chicken and has a very long way to go to being as good as Jack.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 02-20-2010 at 11:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Well's> Ford, Rush taken aback by Pacers' trade talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Kemo View Post
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    I wonder... does anyone think he would prally play better at the 3 spot as danny's backup .. but also sharing some minutes at sg..??

    something to ponder.
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