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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Question for ABA guys

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  • #1

    Question for ABA guys

    This article about Artis Gilmore was just posted on our school's homepage (www.ju.edu) and I was wondering if Artis getting snubbed really is as big a deal as people are making it out to be? I honestly do not know much about the ABA, but this is something that a lot of people are talking about. What is keeping Artis from getting into the Hall of Fame? Any chance he gets in while he is alive?

    The last time the NBA staged its All-Star Game in Dallas, Artis Gilmore was front and center -- a backup center for the West squad, in fact, playing behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, alongside Hakeem Olajuwon and Ralph Sampson and against Moses Malone, Robert Parish and Patrick Ewing. Gilmore won't be in Dallas for All-Star Weekend this year, though -- partly because he wasn't asked and partly because he'll be back at his alma mater and current employer, Jacksonville University, helping to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the school's inception. In March, he and other former Dophins will be honored in a 40-year celebration of Jacksonville's trip to the Final Four and brush with the NCAA men's championship, when they lost to the mighty UCLA Bruins in the title game.


    More conspicuously, Gilmore won't be in Springfield, Mass., today, tomorrow, the day after that or possibly anytime soon. For some inexplicable reason, he has yet to be enshrined in the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame.


    Frankly, the 7-foot-2 gentle giant from Chipley, Fla., might be the Hall's most glaring omission, given his statistical achievements and a diverse career in which he starred at the college level, in the old American Basketball Association, in the ABA and even for a season in Italy at the end, before the international game became a viable option for U.S. players.


    Scan the list of the pro game's greatest scorers, combined NBA/ABA, and Gilmore's standing -- and neglected status -- becomes evident. Twenty-three seasons after his final NBA game, he still ranks 20th in all-time scoring (24,941). All 19 players ahead of him on the list either are Hall of Famers or soon will be (Karl Malone, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant). The same can be said for the next 14 behind him, including Ewing, Charles Barkley, Elgin Baylor, Larry Bird, David Robinson and Kevin Garnett.


    Gilmore holds the NCAA career mark for rebounds (22.7 a game). He was the ABA's Rookie of the Year and MVP in 1971-72, a five-time All-Star selection and the pivot man on the Kentucky Colonels 1975 championship squad. When the ABA got absorbed into the NBA, Gilmore was the coveted No. 1 pick in the dispersal draft. Over his 12 NBA seasons -- six with Chicago, five in San Antonio and one split as a teammate of Michael Jordan with the Bulls and Larry Bird with the Celtics -- he set the league record for highest lifetime shooting percentage (59.9). He made six playoff appearances and six All-Star teams, then wrapped up in 1988-89 with Bologna Arimo in the Euroleague, averaging 12.4 points and 11.1 rebounds at age 39.


    Remember, the joint in Springfield is a basketball Hall of Fame, honoring participants and contributors from all levels. Few have checked as many boxes in their careers as Gilmore -- we haven't even mentioned his all-world Afros and set of sideburns, part of the game's fun "old school'' look -- and I spoke to the courtly Southern gentleman this week about most of them:

    NBA.com: Tell us about your recent return to the university.
    Artis Gilmore: My title now is special assistant to the president to the university. I've really enjoyed it. My responsibilities have more of a marketing spin and hopefully, being a private institution, at some point in the future I'll be able to find some funds to bring to the university. That is, if money ever becomes available again [laughs].

    NBA.com: Your Web site, www.artisgilmore.com, is pretty cool and markets you as a speaker for civic groups and corporate events. Do you do a lot of that?
    AG: Not in this economy right now. I notice even the NBA -- normally they extend an invitation to a lot of us for the All-Star activities. They're having a huge gala this year, and most of us have not gotten invitations. I was speaking with David Thompson and he did not receive one either.

    NBA.com: That surprises me, because the league is pretty savvy about embracing its legendary players.
    AG: I think they're feeling pretty comfortable with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James and some of their other young stars [laughing]. I like to think that this is because of budgets. They've made that choice, and I certainly understand the business aspect of it.

    NBA.com: You started at Gardner-Webb junior college, then spent two years at Jacksonville when you were 20 and 21. Would you even have made it to the Dolphins nowadays? What do you make of players turning pro so much sooner?
    AG: There have been, no question, a number of kids who experienced growing pains. LeBron James is the only one I can think of who was able to transfer directly from high school [and play effectively from the start]. I think it really hurt the NBA and it hurt the college game. It kind of diluted the league for a while. These kids are extraordinary athletes, but the actual knowledge of the game was not there. So they've revised it a little and guys have grown up a little. I think the NBA game is really good now, and I love the energy and the ability of these young players.
    But that "one and done'' rule, well, you certainly understand the kids and their families and that opportunity to generate income. I know some coaches have not approved of it and some even retired ... People say the objective is for them to get an education. No, the objective is to find ways to generate income [for yourself and your family]. If you can generate more than a brain surgeon, it's not even an issue.

    NBA.com: What do you recall most from your NBA All-Star experiences?
    AG: I remember standing on the sideline and listening to Marvin Gaye sing the national anthem [in Los Angeles in 1983]. That was just incredible. An unbelievable emotional experience and certainly knowing what an incredible artist that he was. The performance that he gave was second to none.

    NBA.com: How about from your NBA career overall? What stands out?
    AG: During the time I was in Chicago, we never worked hard enough to get some great, great superstars. They'd had some good players -- Norm Van Lier, Chet Walker, Bob Love -- but when I arrived ... The No. 1 pick that year was Scott May from Indiana. People don't remember that Scott had mono his first year. His second year, he tore up his knee. The third year, he had problems with his other knee. And the year before I arrived, they'd only won 24 games under Dick Motta. So we had a pretty big hill to climb. We lost [13 games in a row in the first month] and people were ready to push me down the tube. Then every year we were changing coaches or changing players.

    NBA.com: Clippers coach Mike Dunleavy was a Spurs teammate during your first year [1982-83] in San Antonio and told me "The A-Train'' was the strongest man he ever played with or against. This was before sophisticated strength training and elaborate weight rooms.
    AG: I think that came from working in the fields. In high school, I worked in watermelon fields -- that was unbelievably hard work, some of those melons could weigh ... they were pretty good-sized, loading those trucks. Mike and I had a lot of fun together. He was my backgammon partner. We didn't put a lot of money behind it, but we spent a considerable amount of time in the airports and on the planes with that board.

    NBA.com: Was playing in the ABA as rough as it gets portrayed?
    AG: The ABA [players'] union wasn't nearly strong enough. In the NBA, the union was almost like a partner with the NBA. But ours had very little negotiating power, and things just got swept away because there was no one to speak up. It was a desperate situation, too, because of a lot of the financial decisions that were made.
    There were difficult times. Say we were going to Roanoke, playing the Virginia Squires. We would spend the major part of the day in the Louisville and Washington airports, having to catch a little Piedmont Airlines [flight] into that area. There were only three TV networks in those days. The NBA had one, so there was almost no exposure and that was one reason it was all but eliminated.

    NBA.com: Any memories of ABA All-Star games?
    AG: I was the first to go in the first dunk contest. Normally, you don't put a 7-foot guy in but I was one of the league's stars, so I was in [the famous Denver event in 1975-76, in which Julius Erving took off from the foul line]. Of course David Thompson was the home favorite ... and he came up with the '360,' but he missed the dunk and back then, if you missed a dunk, it was over for you.
    By having to go first, it was like we were making it up as we went along. The people behind me had a chance to observe and put a plan together. The first one, I dunked two balls. Then I had a couple where I ran behind the rim. But the one camera they had, they didn't have the technology we have now that shows you the best view. Our camera was so far up in the stands, it made us look like little flies on the floor.

    NBA.com: The ABA was crippled as a league back then, so they went with the format of having the league's best team, the Nuggets, face a collection of All-Stars. That almost happened in the NBA All-Star Game a few years back when four Detroit Pistons subbed in together for the East.
    AG: I remember thinking, 'How in the world could you not put Tayshaun Prince on there?' Of course, it's a popularity contest. You saw what happened this year. When Yao Ming is playing, there's no way he can lose. [Laughs]. But who am I to talk? Me being a Hall of Famer who's not in the Hall of Fame.

    NBA.com: I was going to get to that. During your time with the Bulls, you had to be exposed to the backroom deals and head-scratching decisions of Chicago politics. Does that help in understanding the Hall of Fame and your exclusion?
    AG: I don't know who the voters are, who makes those decisions. Once upon a time, it was pretty emotional for me. My mother [Mattie] was around -- she was a double amputee -- and I wanted her to be sitting there in whatever respect she could be, and seeing that incredible smile that she always had, observing me receive this incredible honor and me acknowledging her. But it didn't happen, because she's gone now [about four years ago].

    NBA.com: Still, you come from a big family -- eight children -- and you have a big family of your own with five kids. [Gilmore and his wife have a daughter who is 37, a son who is 12 and they're due to become grandparents to twins this summer.] So you've still got plenty of loved ones with whom to share a Hall induction, if and when it happens.
    AG: Well, it's probably not going to happen in my lifetime ... If I had any question of the system, I thought when they chose to select some international people and put them in the Hall here, to me that is somewhat of an injustice. Perhaps those people do deserve very much to be acknowledged as Hall of Famers, but that you would select those people over some special people in this country? I don't know. I don't have enough information about how the process works. And I can't control it.
    One time, I remember they called me and they said, "We want you to do certain things if you are selected.'' And then -- boom! -- it just vanished. I wondered, why would they even call and get you emotionally interested, and then leave you there?

    NBA.com: How is your health at age 60?
    AG: I've truly been blessed. I just played two weeks ago -- I don't know if you're familiar with the Masters [Basketball Association], a league for people from their late 40s up into their 70s. They have a tournament here with players from all over -- there's a team from Puerto Rico that is incredible -- and I've played with a local team called "The Doctors.'' Most of these guys are doctors and lawyers, judges, and they just love the game. They're very competitive and they play at a pretty high level.

    NBA.com: I would think that just seeing you show up among the orthopedists and attorneys would be pretty intimidating.
    AG: [Laughing]. Not really. They enjoy it. They love the competition.

    http://www.nba.com/2010/news/feature...ore/index.html
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Question for ABA guys

    Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
    This article about Artis Gilmore was just posted on our school's homepage (www.ju.edu) and I was wondering if Artis getting snubbed really is as big a deal as people are making it out to be? I honestly do not know much about the ABA, but this is something that a lot of people are talking about. What is keeping Artis from getting into the Hall of Fame? Any chance he gets in while he is alive?

    Yes, I would have to agree Artis belongs in the HOF and it is quite a
    glaring ommision. That being said, I can also think of a couple ABA era
    Pacers that belong as well.

    I used to love watching the Pacers play against the Colonels when I was
    a kid, and sure enough before every game, the cameraman would have to
    pan in on Gilmore out there warming up. Seeing this "gargantuan" out there
    was enough to send a chill of dread up your spine. Other than possibly
    Mel Daniels, he had to have been the ABA's most dominant center.

    Am not sure what is keeping him out of the HOF other than whoever is
    doing the voting being either ignorant, or just being a--holes.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Question for ABA guys

      ABA guys hell, this guy was a pain in the @ss as an NBA player.

      Before you ever heard the name Michael Jordan you had to ride the A train in Chicago.

      This guy was a centers center and sadly in the NBA he never had a really good team around him until the very end of his career and even then the other players were to young and green to do anything and Artis was already to old to help.

      I remember vividly in the 2000 series when a reporter asked Sam Perkins if Shaq was the strongest player he ever had to play against and Sam shot back "I had to play against Artis Gilmore, so no". Artis was an old man when Sam played him so he was already a lot slower and a little less strong.

      Besides Next to Darnell Hillman this guy had the best fro in history.

      There really needs to be a pro basketball hall of fame.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Question for ABA guys

        Besides Next to Darnell Hillman this guy had the best fro in history.
        2x!



        But remember this. LOTS of people deserve to be in halls of fame that aren't. Bobby Leonard belongs there, too.


        .
        And I won't be here to see the day
        It all dries up and blows away
        I'd hang around just to see
        But they never had much use for me
        In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Question for ABA guys

          As one of the resident old dudes, I saw Artis in both leagues and though he had many solid years in the NBA, his best years were probably in the ABA. Surprised they don't mention that he's the all-time leader in career FG%. Being a Jacksonsville U. story, they should have also mentioned the historic all-7 foot front line that the Dolphins sported. Artis was 7'2" (Bill Simmons mentions that the Colonels measured him with afro and he was 7'8"), Pembrook Burrows III was 7'0", and the other guy I think was actually 6'11". The other two guys couldn't play worth a crap, but imagine being on the opposing team seeing THREE 7 footers line up against you!

          HOF? Methinks yes. I'd say if you play 16 or 17 years, almost never miss a game (he led the league in minutes played a few times), average 20 pts. and 12 or 13 rebounds every night, and be the friggin' all-time FG% shooter in league history, I'd have to start making some noise. And BTW, the FG% is legit. Sure, like any big man he had his share of dunks and 5 foot hooks, but he could really and truly shoot the ball.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Question for ABA guys

            I do remember an obvious flaw in his game. He liked to take a dribble before he went up for a shot, even when posting up (not good for the biggest player on the floor). This led to alot of turnovers. I was just a kid at the time and my dad pointed that out to me. I always remembered it.
            Last edited by dlewyus; 02-13-2010, 08:17 PM.
            “It is what we learn after we know it all that really counts” - John Wooden

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Question for ABA guys

              You know whats crazy is I ate lunch next to Artis yesterday in our caf.

              Really neat to hear all these stories, I am going to have to go find some game film of him

              Comment

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