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Thread: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
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    To help with UB's point ....

    3 years ago I had a major life/death surgery. I have a foot long scar right down the middle of my stomach. Even to this day when I play basketball when someone lowers a shoulder into my stomach ... even if for just a split second I still question if that's going to be the one that hurts.

    I'm 99% sure it'll never hurt, but mentally ... believe me it still makes you wonder. It used to bother me a lot more, and it's this mental worry that I believe UB is talking about. I know it quite well, and he's probably correct. Every time Mike cuts he probably has that same worry in his head that I do ... "Is this the one that hurts??!".

    You can't reduce, or get that out of your head by sitting on the bench.

    -- Steve --
    If this is true, then that means he has taken a few cuts since returning that really did hurt.
    .

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  2. #52
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    If this is true, then that means he has taken a few cuts since returning that really did hurt.
    Curious - how do you get from what PF46 said to this conclusion? I don't think he said it ever did hurt, yet the thought is still in his mind. Could be the same for Mike.
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  3. #53

    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    If this is true, then that means he has taken a few cuts since returning that really did hurt.
    Not necessarily true. I haven't had a pain from sports on my scar in 2 years, but it still crosses my mind. Once you lose confidence in your ability to maneuver without pain, it takes a long while to get it back.

    -- Steve --

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
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    Not necessarily true. I haven't had a pain from sports on my scar in 2 years, but it still crosses my mind. Once you lose confidence in your ability to maneuver without pain, it takes a long while to get it back.

    -- Steve --
    Fair enough.

    I guess I was trying to figure out why his first two weeks back were so good, so strong and confident, then he deteriorated so badly. Perhaps one of those cuts two weeks in was, in fact, very painful.

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  5. #55
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He is still out there playing as a way to get back into game shape.
    I was about to debunk this and then saw that Seth already has.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    This is a guy that was supposed to miss 12 months after surgery which is almost the entire season and has been rushed back onto the court so the team can get "some" productivity from him.

    Some of you really need to re-think your expectations.
    I expect the Pacers not to rush him back from a career-threatening surgery. If the dude's not ready to come back, then he shouldn't be playing.

    Anything we get from Dunleavy during 2009-2010 is gravy. What matters is that he's healthy and in shape for the 2010-11 season.
    Will he be? Do you see him getting better?

    I think in twelve months we're going to be saying "I wish Dun had sat during 2009-2010 and actually fixed that knee, instead of playing on it and not letting it have enough time to heal."
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  6. #56

    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    I think people are seriously underestimating the mental aspect of coming back from a potential career ending injury.

    It's probably got more to do with his poor play than anything else.

    I do think he's got a crappy attitude about the situation the Pacers are in, but it's hard to blame him.

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Has anyone thought maybe his one good NBA season (19 pt 5.2 reb 3.5 apg with the Pacers) is the aberration and this IS the real Mike Dunleavy.

    His stats this season are not much different than his 4-1/2 seasons in Golden State. He is playing 5 mpg less, he is only 1 reb, 1 apg, 1 pt off his career averages and shooting .037 worse. It's not like he was Larry Bird before the knee surgery.

    I hope I'm wrong, but does anyone really expect him to be remarkably better next season in his 9th year in the NBA. How often does that happen?
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    OK, so if Mike is noticeably better next season - can we say that I and others are right and Anthem and Seth were wrong.

  9. #59

    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, so if Mike is noticeably better next season - can we say that I and others are right and Anthem and Seth were wrong.

    What's your definition of "noticeably" better?

    To me any improvement could be classified as "noticeably better" with how Dunleavy has been playing. So what are your parameters to "noticeably better?" Back to 07-08 type of stats? A little less? What?

    It's like your boss saying if I see a noticeable improvement in your work I'll give you a bonus. First off, I want to know if he indeed has the authority to do so, and secondly how much can he truly give. If no parameter is set as to what a noticeable improvement is, it's really nothing more than his decision if you showed a noticeable improvement or not. It's dangling the carrot in front of the mule to get it to work scenario.

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    This gravy is hurting the meal. Not all gravy is good.
    I do agree with this completely. In my opinion, he should sit out 2009-2010 entirely and get the knee injury and rehab and conditioning completely behind him. Which I've said a number of times since last spring.

    He wasn't ready to play at an optimal level when he was rushed back onto the court. He was merely capable of playing some minutes without risk of reinjuring the knee or regressing.

    He's nowhere near 100% and according to all accounts was not expected to be anywhere near 100% this season.

    There is a huge difference between, "I'm healthy enough to play and I'm not going to use injuries as an excuse" and "Well... he's on the court so he must be 100% healthy."

    I feel bad for Dunleavy because he's in a no-win situation. Play at less than 100% and get criticized for the level/ quality of play, or wait until he's really ready to play at an optimal level and be criticized that the 12-month recovery period actually took 12 months. Poor guy.
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  11. #61
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, so if Mike is noticeably better next season - can we say that I and others are right and Anthem and Seth were wrong.
    Um, what?

    If he's noticeably better next season, then it shows up the folks who say "This is what Dun's capable of... it's what he did in GS and it's what he'll do from now on."

    My position (in case you haven't been reading my posts) is that we shouldn't be playing him when he's not ready, and he's not ready. So if he's noticeably better next season, wouldn't that prove me right?
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Um, what?

    If he's noticeably better next season, then it shows up the folks who say "This is what Dun's capable of... it's what he did in GS and it's what he'll do from now on."

    My position (in case you haven't been reading my posts) is that we shouldn't be playing him when he's not ready, and he's not ready. So if he's noticeably better next season, wouldn't that prove me right?
    OK, I was trying to be a little humorous in my prior post.

    My point in response to what your point is - I believe he needs this time on the court in games now in order for him to be better next season. The worst thing he could do would be to sit out and essentuall he would be out for two full seasons then (in theory as he has played 50% of this season already - although I take it that you think he should have sat all this whole season) . You disagree with that - I understand. Who is right - we'll never know. if Dun is a lot better next season I guess we'll both claim we were correct.

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    How does Mike, who's been the league for a number of years "need time to be better next season" but young players don't?

    Aren't you then making the argument that Price/ Rush/ Granger/ McBob (until Tyler is healthy) and Hibbert should be getting the majority of the minutes so they can be ready for next season?

    (Hmmm... that's what I was arguing for for the 2008-09 season.)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  15. #64
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Well UB, I think we both can agree he's not helping us any this season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The worst thing he could do would be to sit out and essentuall he would be out for two full seasons then
    I think the WORST thing he could do would be to play on the knee before it's healed completely and mess it up further. It's an injury from repetitive strain... rest is the cure. My fear is that we're playing him meaningless minutes in meaningless games that will end up hurting his ability to come all of the way back.

    If we get to summer and hear Dun's going to need a follow-up procedure, I will lose it. Because then he'll miss offseason workouts again, miss training camp, start the season on the IL, and then try to catch up while the season is underway.
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Well UB, I think we both can agree he's not helping us any this season.


    I think the WORST thing he could do would be to play on the knee before it's healed completely and mess it up further. It's an injury from repetitive strain... rest is the cure. My fear is that we're playing him meaningless minutes in meaningless games that will end up hurting his ability to come all of the way back.

    If we get to summer and hear Dun's going to need a follow-up procedure, I will lose it. Because then he'll miss offseason workouts again, miss training camp, start the season on the IL, and then try to catch up while the season is underway.
    I'm sure if the doctors thought that by playing on the knee right now that it would mess up his knee further - then Mike would not be playing.

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm sure if the doctors thought that by playing on the knee right now that it would mess up his knee further - then Mike would not be playing.
    You cannot be serious.
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    I agree with UB.

    /gasp/


    Anyway, if the knee were so weak that he was at risk of further injury, he'd be in rehab.

    He got back onto the court as quickly as medically possible. That's not the same thing as "fully healed" and its not even close.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  19. #68
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Anyway, if the knee were so weak that he was at risk of further injury, he'd be in rehab.
    You don't think the franchise would push a guy back out on the court before he was medically ready? You don't think that's even an option?
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    You don't think the franchise would push a guy back out on the court before he was medically ready? You don't think that's even an option?
    Sure they would.

    Why do you think players and management have such ugly, contentious fights about whether a player is healthy enough to play.

    Why do you think Dunleavy would cooperate with it?

    It's his knee. All he has to do to shut it down is say, "it hurts." Who can argue with him?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I agree with UB.
    That's it my work is done here in this forum and here on earth. My goal has been reached there is nothing left for me here. It has been nice getting to know all of you. Good night and good luck

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?



    (Was it really that easy? Damn, I'm stubborn.)

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Maybe we can package him in a deal to save even more money and also eliminate a wingman and he seems to me to be the one who should be moved.

    Looking at who we have.
    Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy, Brandon Rush, Dahntay Jones, Luther Head

    I think Luther deserves more time than Mike. He's shooting as well as how Mike used to.

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Maybe we can package him in a deal
    Not this year. No team will touch him before the summer.
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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Maybe we can package him in a deal to save even more money and also eliminate a wingman and he seems to me to be the one who should be moved.

    Looking at who we have.
    Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy, Brandon Rush, Dahntay Jones, Luther Head

    I think Luther deserves more time than Mike. He's shooting as well as how Mike used to.

    He's damaged goods, so why would any of the other 29 GM's want to take him on? How do they explain it to their owners and still keep their jobs?

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    Default Re: So can we talk about Dunleavy for a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    He's damaged goods, so why would any of the other 29 GM's want to take him on? How do they explain it to their owners and still keep their jobs?
    Maybe 28 if Mike Sr. wants to bring in his son.

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