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Thread: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    We must be seeing two different Warrick. Warrick would be an athletic upgrade over Solo and McRoberts.
    er, what? i do agree that warrick is very athletic. in my post i said his athleticism would help us in the frontcourt.

    beyond that he's not very good though. hence i don't see him as a long term piece, i.e. just a stop gap solution.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Who cares if we are perimeter team the rest of the year.

    This is about landing an all star calibre player alongside Danny for the future. We will find some bigs in the offseason.

    Roy has a nice hook shot and can block some shots, but let's be realistic here. He is not Dwight Howard or the 2nd coming of Kareem. He is not in the same teir as Kevin Martin.
    You missed the point. Kevin Martin is not worth giving up Hibbert.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    We need a "Homer" button
    If a "Homer button" is a "Not trading a 7'3 w/ big upside for a non-defense 6'7 185 lb SG - button", then I agree.


    I don't mind KMart, but not sure I want to take the cap space away on him just yet. He is a talent upgrade (offensively), but you devalue Rush & his all-around game. I'd like to wait till n/y on a SG to "replace" Rush.
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  4. #54
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Can someone with a Twitter account Tweet Wells and have him clarify whether the interest in Murphy is recent and whether there is still some lingering interest in him from Sacto and Milwaukee?
    the news didn't come from mike wells. he's basically repeating what the cleveland writer had in his article.

    http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....eadline_t.html

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    the news didn't come from mike wells. he's basically repeating what the cleveland writer had in his article.

    http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....eadline_t.html
    That makes the leak more credible, imo.

    This is the same writer who said Troy had problems with the coaching staff. Still scratching my head on that report.
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    er, what? i do agree that warrick is very athletic. in my post i said his athleticism would help us in the frontcourt.

    beyond that he's not very good though. hence i don't see him as a long term piece, i.e. just a stop gap solution.
    I misunderstood your one comment when you stated that we sure could use the athletism. I thought you meant he wasn't athletic enough.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I highly think the Pacers will try hard to get out from under that tax. It might take a Murphy dump to do that.
    They still have a year to do that and they know how much interest their players are getting. From the rumors we hear, they are getting to much interest to just do a salary dump at this time.

  9. #58

    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    If a "Homer button" is a "Not trading a 7'3 w/ big upside for a non-defense 6'7 185 lb SG - button", then I agree.


    I don't mind KMart, but not sure I want to take the cap space away on him just yet. He is a talent upgrade (offensively), but you devalue Rush & his all-around game. I'd like to wait till n/y on a SG to "replace" Rush.
    Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Who cares if we are perimeter team the rest of the year.

    This is about landing an all star calibre player alongside Danny for the future. We will find some bigs in the offseason.

    Roy has a nice hook shot and can block some shots, but let's be realistic here. He is not Dwight Howard or the 2nd coming of Kareem. He is not in the same teir as Kevin Martin.
    You just don't find bigs like Hibbert! I think if he maxes out his potential he will be an all star himself.

    I think that because if he maxes out he will be as good as Smits, and Smits was an all star.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 02-10-2010 at 12:13 PM.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?
    Thats like saying how much upside does Rik Smits have. IMO, Shooting guards are less valueable than a inside presence. Don't get me wrong Kmart is better than him but if you factor in cap space and what the Pacers already have its a wash of a trade. Of course if you we were to draft a center then I would consider it.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?
    Right now, it's hard to guage what Hibbert's upside is when we have a Coach that does not maximize his skillset and often uses him incorrectly.

    << rant-on >>

    For heaven's sakes......he has his best low-post scorer regularly taking jumpshots near the top of the key. I mean...WTF?!?!?! I'm glad that Hibbert is capable of hitting those shots....but I don't know why we have to have a 7'2" Center wandering that far away from the basket that often in the first place. But I guess I'm okay with Hibbert taking shots that far away from the basket since we have a Bruiser PF that isn't allergic to Offensive rebounds.

    << rant-off >>

    Ask this question again in another 1.5 seasons ( or less ) when we have a new Coach that can properly use a 7'2" Center.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-10-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Not to completely derail this thread... but, how much more upside does Roy have? Sure he can put up better numbers if he gets more PT and becomes the focal point of the offense, but is he going to become faster? Is he going to get a better hookshot? I like Roy, but if you can trade him and get back Kevin Martin... take off the blue and gold tinted glasses eh?
    IMO a fair amount.
    I like the Smits analogy. Bigs take longer to develope. Are you saying that w/ experience that Roy can not significantly improve his interior D? IMO even if he maintained his current offensive production (not likely, he WILL improve), he has plenty of defensive "upside" from where he is today.
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    I think Roy has tons he'll improve on, but mainly doing the good things more often and the bonehead things less. I think we've seen improvement this season, almost week to week.

    So at the very least, I think we'll see Roy get more consistent. I don't see that he's even close to his ceiling consistency wise or overall skill level or either end, imho.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    At least we won't have much longer to wait till we find out if a deal goes down or not. I still don't see Cleveland giving up Hickson. They want to keep LeBron, and if he is mentoring Hickson, I can't see them giving him up and taking a chance at angering the King.
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    IMO a fair amount.
    I like the Smits analogy. Bigs take longer to develope. Are you saying that w/ experience that Roy can not significantly improve his interior D? IMO even if he maintained his current offensive production (not likely, he WILL improve), he has plenty of defensive "upside" from where he is today.

    I don't think so, just my opinion of course. Slow is slow, and he is always going to struggle with defending faster guys... which is most of the league.

    Let me be clear though, I really do like Hibbert and I think he is a good player, I just think when oppurtunity comes knocking and you can land a better quality player, even if it is small for big, you should do it. I suppose it doesn't have to be Hibbert, but who else? Rush? Price? No one else on the team would be good enough I think. Maybe Troy + the 1st round pick would get it done.

    Would you rather have Roy or the 1st round pick if it came to that?

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Roy's upside is enormous.

    It takes centers a long time to acclimate, anyway. When a coach comes here and runs a traditional, inside-out offense, and Roy has good players to pass to, the offense could be scary good.

    His defense will only get better and better. That is where he will improve the most.

    Bird is scaring me lately, but I do think he is smart enough to keep Roy around.
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Hibbert has come a long way in just his second year. This kid knows how to play basketball and actually can learn to grow as a player. That's why the Pacers just need to get an athletic defensive minded PF to help Hibbert out against faster centers.

    I hated Hibbert and Rush when we drafted them, but I'm growing to like both players a lot.

    Can we just trade Hansbrough instead of Hibbert?
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I don't think so, just my opinion of course. Slow is slow, and he is always going to struggle with defending faster guys... which is most of the league.

    Let me be clear though, I really do like Hibbert and I think he is a good player, I just think when oppurtunity comes knocking and you can land a better quality player, even if it is small for big, you should do it. I suppose it doesn't have to be Hibbert, but who else? Rush? Price? No one else on the team would be good enough I think. Maybe Troy + the 1st round pick would get it done.

    Would you rather have Roy or the 1st round pick if it came to that?
    Since we are so thin at the Frontcourt, if I were to choose between the 2...I'd give up Murphy+2010 1st round pick ( protected up to the top 5 for the 2010-2011 season ) for Kevin Martin....but not Hibbert.
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    I forgot Hansbrough was on the team.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I don't think so, just my opinion of course. Slow is slow, and he is always going to struggle with defending faster guys... which is most of the league.

    Let me be clear though, I really do like Hibbert and I think he is a good player, I just think when oppurtunity comes knocking and you can land a better quality player, even if it is small for big, you should do it. I suppose it doesn't have to be Hibbert, but who else? Rush? Price? No one else on the team would be good enough I think. Maybe Troy + the 1st round pick would get it done.

    Would you rather have Roy or the 1st round pick if it came to that?
    I would choose Roy at this point but if we did land Kmart our pick would be less valuable in the end.

  25. #71

    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Since we are so thin at the Frontcourt, if I were to choose between the 2...I'd give up Murphy+2010 1st round pick ( protected up to the top 5 for the 2010-2011 season ) for Kevin Martin....but not Hibbert.
    Actually, I think I would too, unless it was top 3 pick or whatever. Even then.. you know what you got with Roy, any guy you draft, even John Wall... it is always uncertain on how well he will be in the NBA.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    To me, only 2 players are untouchable: Danny and Roy. The jury's still out on Tyler, AJ, and Rush. Saying that, I think bird is looking for a much larger deal than we think. Possibly combining one of Tyler, Rush, and Aj with Troy to get a rising star.

    Cleveland can offer Z and Hickson. I think the pacers need to forget about the draft pick. We do not need a late first round draft pick. If we can get Hickson and Z for Murph, LB should take it and run.

    Sactown has several assets that we could use on this team. If we could get one of Evans, Sergio, Martin, or Garcia, without giving up Hibbert or Granger, we'd be in good shape going into the offseason.

    ...any chance Milwaukee would accept a trade of Troy, Rush, AJ, and our 1st rd pick for Jennings?
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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
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    ...any chance Milwaukee would accept a trade of Troy, Rush, AJ, and our 1st rd pick for Jennings?
    No. I think the only discussions Milwaukee would have for Jennings is if they were to get a superstar (in the realm of a CP3, Deron, Rose) in return.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Martin missed 21 games two seasons ago, 31 games last season, and has already missed 32 games this season. His scoring efficiency (his bread & butter) is also way down, as his FG% (.390), 3% (.365) and FT% (.825) are all the lowest since his rookie season.

    Call me a homer, but I'd be reluctant to give up Roy in any Martin deal. I don't think it matters either way as I'm pretty confident we could work something out that didn't involve Hibbert. Send them Troy and a top-seven protected first and we could probably have Martin on the team by the end of today.

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    Default Re: not only Cleveland is interested in Murphy, Milwaukee and Sacramento are too/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Actually, I think I would too, unless it was top 3 pick or whatever. Even then.. you know what you got with Roy, any guy you draft, even John Wall... it is always uncertain on how well he will be in the NBA.
    I'm okay with acquiring a Long-term contract AS LONG AS the Player fits what we want to do after the start of the 2011-2012 season. Giving up a Draft Pick to acquire a Player like Kevin Martin IMHO would require giving up something. I wouldn't do it if we got back a lower-caliber player from the Kings ( for example, getting back Andres Nocioni ). But since I think that we will need to acquire ( through Trade or FA ) or Draft a Starting quality SG ( I consider BRush and Inferno solid Backups at the GF position but not really Starting quality SGs on a Playoff level Team ) by the start of the 2011-2012 season....I'd be okay with having Kevin Martin be the Robin to Granger's Batman.

    I agree with you on Kevin Martin, I just don't want to give up on Hibbert until we see how he does with a real Coach that actually utilizes him properly.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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