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Thread: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

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    Default Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    They continue bashing Brandon Rush, 12.7pts and 51% in 3s in the last 13games and that is bad? he is maybe the more productive player in the whole team, he does the small things, plays defense on the other team best player, block shots and get rebounds, I don't understand what is JOB deal? if you want him just to play just offense and score points make somebody play defense just the same way they do with Danny. "SORRY ABOUT THE LINK"
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...-inconsistency

    Trying to solve the mystery of Brandon Rush is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
    His body language and expressions are the same whether he has scored 20 points or missed 10 consecutive shots.




    "That's always been me. I never show too much emotion," Rush said. "I never show it when I get down on myself or anything like that. That's always been my personality. It's too late to change me."
    His teammates have tried to encourage him only to receive an occasional cold shoulder. His coaches have basically given up trying to flip the right switch. Coach Jim O'Brien can't talk about the second-year swingman without looking flustered or throwing up his arms in annoyance.
    What drives those in the organization up a wall is that Rush has as much potential as anybody on the roster.
    He starts the game defending players the way LeBron James and Kobe Bryant defend. He can rebound. He can shoot from the perimeter and attack the basket. But he also has had 27 games in which he failed to reach double figures in scoring.
    Recently, Rush has found a rhythm offensively. He is averaging 12.7 points over the past 13 games. He has failed to reach double figures in just three of those games. Rush also has made 51 percent of his 3-point attempts in the past nine games.
    What brought on the scoring surge?
    "We don't know, but we didn't have to do anything to turn on a light bulb," O'Brien said. "He just seems to find his level. We try not to bother him too much."
    Rush's recent play reminds people of how he closed last season, when he averaged 15.9 points and shot 47 percent, including 41 percent on 3-pointers, in the final 12 games.
    The last thing the Pacers want is for Rush to revert to the player who got off to a slow start this season and dealt with confidence issues. He is too talented to let his offensive game dictate other things he does on the court.
    "I'm certainly hoping the production he has given us over the last 15 games or so is who he is because he's playing really well," O'Brien said. "He's shooting the ball at a very high clip with a lot of confidence. On-ball defense is good. We certainly need to continue to grow him off the ball because we think he can be a special defensive player. But I'm hoping and praying that this is who he is."
    Last edited by vnzla81; 02-09-2010 at 12:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Rush is not what they want him to be........Rush is what he is doing down. I've posted before Rush is a Bruce Bowen type player his style and mentality is the same as Bowen. Rush is a better shooter but game style and play, are both the same. Bowen excelled in a structured half court offense, so will Rush when given the chance. Could you imagine Bowen in the gun and gun offense doing well???........exactly and Rush won't do well until we change coaches.

    And Flim is a terrible coach that is ruining our young players ...........
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    Rush is not what they want him to be........Rush is what he is doing down. I've posted before Rush is a Bruce Bowen type player his style and mentality is the same as Bowen. Rush is a better shooter but game style and play, are both the same. Bowen excelled in a structured half court offense, so will Rush when given the chance. Could you imagine Bowen in the gun and gun offense doing well???........exactly and Rush won't do well until we change coaches.

    And Flim is a terrible coach that is ruining our young players ...........
    I been saying the same thing also, everytime he makes a 3 he receives the ball and shoot, he is not the kind of player who creates his own shot, ofcourse the guy is a more athletic player than BB and should be able to get an easy dunk here and there.

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Of all the problems this team has, I'd say inconsistency from Rush would be pretty low on my list.

    I'm more mystified by our coach's inconsistency. Just imagine if the players said (publicly) the kind of stuff about him that he says about them.
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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Of all the problems this team has, I'd say inconsistency from Rush would be pretty low on my list.

    I'm more mystified by our coach's inconsistency. Just imagine if the players said (publicly) the kind of stuff about him that he says about them.
    its about time the team as a whole did step up and say these things about Flim.
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Part of this is the lack of appreciation for the meaning of "average." Wells implies that a player who averages 12 points a game ought to score 12 points every game. Or that if he averages 12 then he is capable of stepping up and averaging 18. Or something.

    But the average means little. Whatever a player's average in any category, he is still likely to exceed it or fall short of it on any given night. Consistency is a desirable quality in a player, but there's no saying that a player who can score 12 one night can do it every night.


    Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Scottie Pippin, Elton Brand, Michael Jordan, Dikembe Motumbo, Rasheed Wallace and Shane Battier are some of the NBA players who have started a game, played more than 40 minutes, and scored 3 or fewer points. Many of them are Hall of Famers with career averages in the double digits. But they were not consistent every single night the stepped on the floor.


    Let's just start calling Brandon Rush "Satan 2" or "Son of McKey" or something like that and let him play his game.

    .
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    It all dries up and blows away
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    But they never had much use for me
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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Part of this is the lack of appreciation for the meaning of "average." Wells implies that a player who averages 12 points a game ought to score 12 points every game. Or that if he averages 12 then he is capable of stepping up and averaging 18. Or something.

    But the average means little. Whatever a player's average in any category, he is still likely to exceed it or fall short of it on any given night. Consistency is a desirable quality in a player, but there's no saying that a player who can score 12 one night can do it every night.


    Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Scottie Pippin, Elton Brand, Michael Jordan, Dikembe Motumbo, Rasheed Wallace and Shane Battier are some of the NBA players who have started a game, played more than 40 minutes, and scored 3 or fewer points. Many of them are Hall of Famers with career averages in the double digits. But they were not consistent every single night the stepped on the floor.


    Let's just start calling Brandon Rush "Satan 2" or "Son of McKey" or something like that and let him play his game.

    .
    thats what i want........
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    Rush is not what they want him to be........Rush is what he is doing down. I've posted before Rush is a Bruce Bowen type player his style and mentality is the same as Bowen. Rush is a better shooter but game style and play, are both the same. Bowen excelled in a structured half court offense, so will Rush when given the chance. Could you imagine Bowen in the gun and gun offense doing well???........exactly and Rush won't do well until we change coaches.

    And Flim is a terrible coach that is ruining our young players ...........
    It is very obvious to see now that JOB is terrible at developing young players. his offense is too free wheeling. And he only cares about offensive production. Defense is just gravy for him.

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    OK I just read this and to me this article is not talking about his play. This article is talking about his lack of emotion and I think it is dead on. Rush never shows a lot of emotion. I mentioned it in a game thread earlier. I think most players on this team are inconsistent including the coach. But I think this article is not bashing Rush for his inconsistency on the court but is just talking about how he does not show emotion.
    JOB is a silly man

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    OK I just read this and to me this article is not talking about his play. This article is talking about his lack of emotion and I think it is dead on. Rush never shows a lot of emotion. I mentioned it in a game thread earlier. I think most players on this team are inconsistent including the coach. But I think this article is not bashing Rush for his inconsistency on the court but is just talking about how he does not show emotion.
    thats not who he is ...............i'm sick of this coaching staff trying to turn our young guys into what they want.....let them be who they are.

    if Rush goes out there and averages 14 ppg 1 blk 1 stl 3 ast.....and it's helping us win......i don't care if he doesnt smile or yell YEAH all game as long as he gives 100% why should it matter if he's "fired up" or not.

    he we can go after Artest and Jax they show emotion


    WOW I REALLY HATE this coaching staff!!!!!!!!......Flim that is.
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    OK I just read this and to me this article is not talking about his play. This article is talking about his lack of emotion and I think it is dead on. Rush never shows a lot of emotion. I mentioned it in a game thread earlier. I think most players on this team are inconsistent including the coach. But I think this article is not bashing Rush for his inconsistency on the court but is just talking about how he does not show emotion.
    your right i just reread the article and the title again and the title is misleading.......what does inconsistentcy have to due with lack of emotion??

    should have titled the article "Pacer's Rush in no Rush" or something corny like that.........
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    your right i just reread the article and the title again and the title is misleading.......what does inconsistentcy have to due with lack of emotion??

    should have titled the article "Pacer's Rush in no Rush" or something corny like that.........
    They are still flipping switches and in an attempt to throw us off track have declared that they ceased in doing such.
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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    I think Brandon is a type of player that wants to do very well, but just gets lost in the paint with the big boys, and an extremely streaky shooter. He also lacks explosiveness, something I thought would of been brought up while i've been gone. He never blows by defenders, mostly because he's too decisive with the ball, and he just doesn't want to bulldoze into the paint and draw fouls. He feels lost because he doesn't know where people are going to be and he doesn't know what to do when he gets into trouble. I believe that has more to do with the structure, or lack thereof, of our offense.

    I also think that Brandon should start going inside-out to get his game going. What I mean is, he should try to get to the basket, or get putbacks, and just make plays, so that it opens up it perimeter game. He also needs to improve moving off the ball, making backdoor cuts so that he can become that player that is "always at the right place at the right time". But anyway, with attacking the basket, the defender will eventually sag off, taking the drive away, leaving him open for threes.

    Oh, defense. Forgot what that was for awhile. His is great. I especially like his on-ball defense, but his decision-making on the defensive end shouldn't go unnoticed. He'd lie under the PnR on a bad shooter, and fight through on a very good perimeter shooter, thus lockdown time on Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton when Rush gets to guard them. He's too strong and laterally quick to let them get past him when he plays tight, so they have to work extremely hard to get their shots off, and Rush usually turns them into turnover machines. Rush especially made Rip plain awful, forcing him to take near impossible shots, and also causing Rip to make bad passes.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    I'm starting to think TPTB severely mis-scouted Rush to begin with.

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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    I have a gut feeling we are being set up to accept some B.S. B.Rush trade.

    I fear he will be packaged w another (Murph/Ford) & we will not like what we get in return. Likely an expiring & a pick or some half-a** big or something. It will be largely a money dump, but will be spun as something else ("Good for Bradon & good for Us"). L.Head will take B.Rushes spot & we will have him + 3 PG's (if Murph is delt) in the PG/SG 4-man rotation for the remainder of the year.
    Just my gut feel, & I'm not happy about it.
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    Default Re: Pacers still mystified by Rush's inconsistency/Mike Wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    He also lacks explosiveness, something I thought would of been brought up while i've been gone. He never blows by defenders, mostly because he's too decisive with the ball, and he just doesn't want to bulldoze into the paint and draw fouls. He feels lost because he doesn't know where people are going to be and he doesn't know what to do when he gets into trouble. I believe that has more to do with the structure, or lack thereof, of our offense.
    I disagree here. Brandon is arguably the best athlete on the team. He has the capabilities to get to the bucket and throw it down but he just hasn't for some reason. IMO the problem lies with his ball handling. He dribbles too high to get to the rim on a consistent basis. I also know that he is working on this and it should be corrected in due time.

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    Default A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    Maybe my expectations for the kid were too low, but I don't get the hand-wringing with Rush. This is what you get in a second-year mid-round pick.

    Of all the complaints I've head about a Pacer in the past 5 years, I think this is the first I've heard "too calm." Really, that's what we're complaining about now? In other players we'd call that "professionalism."

    Obie's frustration with Rush isn't based on his defense, rebounding, or passing. It's based on his shooting and aggressiveness on the offensive end. Don't dress it up in emotion, coach. Call it what it is. You want him to be a gun.
    Last edited by Anthem; 02-09-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Ok mods, I'm in total agreement of PD's link policy. But maybe instead of deleting the entire thread and the discussion that went with it, we could just delete the text of the original post and replace it with or something?
    Back on track, here's the comment I wrote for the now-deceased thread.

    -------

    Maybe my expectations for the kid were too low, but I don't get the hand-wringing with Rush. This is what you get in a second-year mid-round pick.

    Of all the complaints I've head about a Pacer in the past 5 years, I think this is the first I've heard "too calm." Really, that's what we're complaining about now? In other players we'd call that "professionalism."

    Obie's frustration with Rush isn't based on his defense, rebounding, or passing. It's based on his shooting and aggressiveness on the offensive end. Don't dress it up in emotion, coach. Call it what it is. You want him to be a gun.
    very nice suggestion...........because I don't even remember exactly what was being discussed. Kind of like being put on hold in a phone conversation and them coming back and you're lost and just say I'll call you back.

    so um "I'll call you back."
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    As I was typing while the thread I was involved with was RUDELY interrupt....errr ...... deleted!
    (Thanks Anthem for stating it well & for restarting a "hypothetical" thread w/ very real content, thought & interest)

    In Re to Speed' "Mis-scouted Rush comment:

    Maybe in part, but IMO it's they mis-picked his style & JO'B's working together.
    I like BR. I am maddened by him not taking the step he looked like he had in part already taken at the end of l/y, but I like that he has a complete box score. IMO he needs someone to take him under his wing - not someone we hire & stick him with, but a vet who bond w/ him & make him better. I thought Danny might be that guy, but I don't see him that way anymore.

    On a side thought, but wome what related:
    *Isn't it both sad & ironic that no one on this team is better this year then last year except Roy, & Roy is the least fit w/ what JO'B wants to do?

    *This is NOT a "JO'B is a bad coach" shot. I am getting tierd of reading those. I think JO'B is a good coach, but just not for this team & more importantly this roster. Those that say he is a bad coach do not like his style/philosophy, but that is different from his coaching abilities.
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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...ID=20102090342

    Trying to solve the mystery of Brandon Rush is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

    His body language and expressions are the same whether he has scored 20 points or missed 10 consecutive shots.




    "That's always been me. I never show too much emotion," Rush said. "I never show it when I get down on myself or anything like that. That's always been my personality. It's too late to change me."

    His teammates have tried to encourage him only to receive an occasional cold shoulder. His coaches have basically given up trying to flip the right switch. Coach Jim O'Brien can't talk about the second-year swingman without looking flustered or throwing up his arms in annoyance.

    What drives those in the organization up a wall is that Rush has as much potential as anybody on the roster.

    He starts the game defending players the way LeBron James and Kobe Bryant defend. He can rebound. He can shoot from the perimeter and attack the basket. But he also has had 27 games in which he failed to reach double figures in scoring.

    Recently, Rush has found a rhythm offensively. He is averaging 12.7 points over the past 13 games. He has failed to reach double figures in just three of those games. Rush also has made 51 percent of his 3-point attempts in the past nine games.

    What brought on the scoring surge?

    "We don't know, but we didn't have to do anything to turn on a light bulb," O'Brien said. "He just seems to find his level. We try not to bother him too much."

    Rush's recent play reminds people of how he closed last season, when he averaged 15.9 points and shot 47 percent, including 41 percent on 3-pointers, in the final 12 games.

    The last thing the Pacers want is for Rush to revert to the player who got off to a slow start this season and dealt with confidence issues. He is too talented to let his offensive game dictate other things he does on the court.

    "I'm certainly hoping the production he has given us over the last 15 games or so is who he is because he's playing really well," O'Brien said. "He's shooting the ball at a very high clip with a lot of confidence. On-ball defense is good. We certainly need to continue to grow him off the ball because we think he can be a special defensive player. But I'm hoping and praying that this is who he is."
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    Those that say he is a bad coach do not like his style/philosophy, but that is different from his coaching abilities.
    I have to disagree here. JOB might be able to coach his style like nobody's business. Part of being a good coach is recognizing your own limitations, and that of your roster, and adjusting accordingly. If the roster doesn't fit your style, one of them needs to be changed and it sure isn't gonna be the roster. It's precisely his refusal to adjust his style that makes him a bad coach, or at the very least stubborn to his own detriment.

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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    I have to disagree here. JOB might be able to coach his style like nobody's business. Part of being a good coach is recognizing your own limitations, and that of your roster, and adjusting accordingly. If the roster doesn't fit your style, one of them needs to be changed and it sure isn't gonna be the roster. It's precisely his refusal to adjust his style that makes him a bad coach, or at the very least stubborn to his own detriment.
    ding ding ding.............EXACTLY a good coach should be able to adjust just like he wants his players to adjust , not be stubborn and bull headed.
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

  32. #23
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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    I have to disagree here. JOB might be able to coach his style like nobody's business. Part of being a good coach is recognizing your own limitations, and that of your roster, and adjusting accordingly. If the roster doesn't fit your style, one of them needs to be changed and it sure isn't gonna be the roster. It's precisely his refusal to adjust his style that makes him a bad coach, or at the very least stubborn to his own detriment.
    In part, yes, but JO'B was hired because 1). he is a good coach & basketball mind, 2). he favors the style TPTB wanted to play, & 3). familuarity, LB new JO'B & felt he was the right guy at the right time.
    Now, you can argue those choices, but like JO'B, the are what they are. If you hire Mike Martz to coach your team, you are going to throw the football, if you hire Bobby knight you will run motion offense, if you hire Tony LaRusa, you will run the bases.... Coaches do need to make adjustments, & some of the greats can even change styles, but I never called JO'B great, not do I think he is capable of straying too far away from what he knows. He is doing what we hired him to be

    Anyway, lets PLEASE not have another JO'B thread here. I think the BRANDON RUSH topic is worthy of discussion. IMO it does relate in that I don't think JO'B & B.Rush fit, but that is it.
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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    In part, yes, but JO'B was hired because 1). he is a good coach & basketball mind, 2). he favors the style TPTB wanted to play, & 3). familuarity, LB new JO'B & felt he was the right guy at the right time.
    Now, you can argue those choices, but like JO'B, the are what they are. If you hire Mike Martz to coach your team, you are going to throw the football, if you hire Bobby knight you will run motion offense, if you hire Tony LaRusa, you will run the bases.... Coaches do need to make adjustments, & some of the greats can even change styles, but I never called JO'B great, not do I think he is capable of straying too far away from what he knows. He is doing what we hired him to be

    Anyway, lets PLEASE not have another JO'B thread here. I think the BRANDON RUSH topic is worthy of discussion. IMO it does relate in that I don't think JO'B & B.Rush fit, but that is it.
    That is a big part of it though, Brandon does not fit Jim's system. In fact, most of the team does not. In fact most of the NBA does not. It seems only hall of famers (especially the ones who stretch the defense) fit this system. If only we had Kobe, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan we might make the playoffs.
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 02-09-2010 at 12:31 PM.

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    Default Re: A thread about a hypothetical article about Rush

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    I have to disagree here. JOB might be able to coach his style like nobody's business. Part of being a good coach is recognizing your own limitations, and that of your roster, and adjusting accordingly. If the roster doesn't fit your style, one of them needs to be changed and it sure isn't gonna be the roster. It's precisely his refusal to adjust his style that makes him a bad coach, or at the very least stubborn to his own detriment.
    A GOOD coach adjusts, not just great ones. Just emphasizing what you said which I agree with.

    I'm tired of letting guys off the hook as if only Phil, Pop and Sloan can adjust to different rosters. I'm not even trying to bash him here because I'm done with that myself.

    But with that in mind it's much easier to let it go when I don't have to keep seeing these player rips from the coach.

    "You don't like JOB, we get it, stop complaining". Ok, not a problem.

    "You don't like Rush, we get it, stop complaining"...right back at ya.

    Until then I continue to worry when I see these evaluations of Rush, who by most accounts plays a steady, good awareness game based in large part around being the best defender on the team (yes, clearly better than the off/on Dahntay).

    To me if there's a guy you are penciling in every day and not worrying about his production, it's Brandon. He will impact every game somehow, even if he's not scoring. He's one of the few things a coach doesn't have to worry about, and from my coaching days my opinion is that those guys are my favorite. They make your job easier.

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