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Thread: In 15 Days.....

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    I could see Bosh thinking of Indy as a place to come to. Think about playing next to Danny, Hibby, Rush and AJ. Maybe he thinks he could be the guy that puts this young core over the top to being competitive.

    Thinking and reality is 2 different things. The Pacers don't have the money to sign Bosh.... or any other Allstar FA

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I'd rather have Caron Butler. That's Robin! Plus he has no major off court stuff to worry about.
    We need more than Robin......we need Superman!!!
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I would love to pick up Tayshaun Prince in a Derrick McKey-like roll.
    Pretty sure Tayshaun died last summer.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I'd rather have Caron Butler. That's Robin! Plus he has no major off court stuff to worry about.
    I like Caron as well, but where would we play him, at the 4 and play Danny at the 3? I kind of like that, but isn't his natural position the 3? He would stretch the defense, but how is his low post defense, don't think he is known for that. His deal is manageable...

    Anyways 15 days we will see. Moving Troy is our best option.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Caron would probably play the 2.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by odeez View Post
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    I like Caron as well, but where would we play him, at the 4 and play Danny at the 3? I kind of like that, but isn't his natural position the 3? He would stretch the defense, but how is his low post defense, don't think he is known for that. His deal is manageable...

    Anyways 15 days we will see. Moving Troy is our best option.
    Lot of overlap with CB, DG, BR, DJ (assuming the last two were still here). Only one of those four who should ever see time at the four is Danny and that's obviously debateable. The other three are wings period with the Danny obviously figuring in heavily at SF, too.

    We need 1 & 4 bad. The above is the same issue with an Iguodala. Of course, it's purely dependent on what other moves are made. For the sake of argument, would you take CB if you had to move out BR?
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    We need more than Robin......we need Superman!!!
    I thought something similar when I read QuickRelease's post. Although I think of Granger as a good player, he isn't Batman. Actually, this year, he's been more like a Green Arrow that needs glasses.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    We need more than Robin......we need Superman!!!
    Been saying this for a long time now but nobody seems to care, Danny is not the number one guy in a good team, we need to find that number one guy, regardless of position, I we think that Danny is going to take this team to the promise land, we are going to be waiting for a long long time.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Been saying this for a long time now but nobody seems to care, Danny is not the number one guy in a good team, we need to find that number one guy, regardless of position, I we think that Danny is going to take this team to the promise land, we are going to be waiting for a long long time.
    i've been saying for the longest that Danny is like Pippen........and Pippen was what??? A career long assistant to the leader. Pacers need a consistent allstar not a drive by allstar.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    i've been saying for the longest that Danny is like Pippen........and Pippen was what??? A career long assistant to the leader. Pacers need a consistent allstar not a drive by allstar.

    I undestand what are you trying to say, but Danny is not even close to Pippen, I'll be happy if he had a Pippen and Danny.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    I think there's a lot of people on here who would agree with you guys on Granger being cut out for the 1A roll as opposed to the top dog. The harder question is how do you obtain the #1 guys as we know they don't grow on trees. We certainly seem to have a complement of young guys who can grow into good role players.

    It bears noting that if that elusive #1 is actually obtained, but not a 4 or 1, it still will require upgrades at those positions. We are heavy on the wing and have a good 5 prospect. You can't be a championship caliber team without strong PG play/leadership unless you get a Kobe or a LeBron level guy elsewhere. Even then, you can't have PG chopped liver.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I undestand what are you trying to say, but Danny is not even close to Pippen, I'll be happy if he had a Pippen and Danny.
    On a basic level I do not dispute this, but if you put DG next to Jordan (or that level of player) he'd look a lot more Pippenesque real fast.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I think there's a lot of people on here who would agree with you guys on Granger being cut out for the 1A roll as opposed to the top dog. The harder question is how do you obtain the #1 guys as we know they don't grow on trees. We certainly seem to have a complement of young guys who can grow into good role players.

    It bears noting that if that elusive #1 is actually obtained, but not a 4 or 1, it still will require upgrades at those positions. We are heavy on the wing and have a good 5 prospect. You can't be a championship caliber team without strong PG play/leadership unless you get a Kobe or a LeBron level guy elsewhere. Even then, you can't have PG chopped liver.
    I think that if the draft is deep enough the pacers could get either a top wing better than Danny or a top PF who could be the Batman to Robin.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    On a basic level I do not dispute this, but if you put DG next to Jordan (or that level of player) he'd look a lot more Pippenesque real fast.
    He would look better of course but remember that Pippen could have been a franchise player if he was in another team, at the same time Jordan made him better in practice pushing him hard everyday. I said this in another thread, but for me Danny is closer to Rashard Lewis a guy who likes to shoot jumpers and does not drive to the basket much.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    He would look better of course but remember that Pippen could have been a franchise player if he was in another team, at the same time Jordan made him better in practice pushing him hard everyday. I said this in another thread, but for me Danny is closer to Rashard Lewis a guy who likes to shoot jumpers and does not drive to the basket much.
    Remember what Pippen (the team) did once Jordan left?????????
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    Remember what Pippen (the team) did once Jordan left?????????
    actually pippen took them to the easter conference final when Jordan retired the 1st time, he averaged 22pts 8.7reb and 5.6apg with a record of 55 wins and 27loses, losing to New York in game seven. Danny can't even take this team to the playoffs when teams under .500 are making it.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    He would look better of course but remember that Pippen could have been a franchise player if he was in another team, at the same time Jordan made him better in practice pushing him hard everyday. I said this in another thread, but for me Danny is closer to Rashard Lewis a guy who likes to shoot jumpers and does not drive to the basket much.
    I don't know. You seem to be contradicting yourself here. If it took so much of Jordan's influence and simply playing next to him to bring out good play from Pippen-which IIRC took a while to happen-how would Pip have been capable of being a sure fire frachise guy if he was handed the main man mantle sans the presence of one of the all-time greats?
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I don't know. You seem to be contradicting yourself here. If it took so much of Jordan's influence and simply playing next to him to bring out good play from Pippen-which IIRC took a while to happen-how would Pip have been capable of being a sure fire frachise guy if he was handed the main man mantle sans the presence of one of the all-time greats?
    they guy could have been a franchise player with or without Jordan, what I am saying is that Jordan made him an even better player by playing againts him in practice and pushing him hard, he was going to be a really good player but Jordan made him one of the best 50 ever.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    they guy could have been a franchise player with or without Jordan, what I am saying is that Jordan made him an even better player by playing againts him in practice and pushing him hard, he was going to be a really good player but Jordan made him one of the best 50 ever.
    Well, if you go all the way back to your original premise where you brought in the Pippen comparison idea, you said Danny isn't at the level to take us to the "promised" land, which I take to mean the NBA championship.

    By that benchmark, Pippen never did that even the year Jordan retired. I also recall he didn't do squat in Portland after his Chitown days when the Blazers thought they were getting this key guy to push them over the top. He certainly wasn't the #1 to Jordan's 1A in the Bull's dynasty.

    So what exactly are you trying to say here? How can you really say with such certainty that he Pipplen would have been a franchise player leading somebody to the promised land without Jordan, Ho Grant, Phil Jackson, Rodman, etc.

    To compare that context to DG trying to lead this combination of players under JOB to the promised land just seems misguided on so many levels. And I still think you are underestimating the importance of Pippen playing with Jordan in what Pippen accomplished and became as a player. Sure the guy had great talent, but what you are basically saying is akin to saying take Jordan out of the equation and Pippen leads them to multiple championships.
    Last edited by D-BONE; 02-06-2010 at 09:36 PM.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Well, if you go all the way back to your original premise where you brought in the Pippen comparison idea, you said Danny isn't at the level to take us to the "promised" land, which I take to mean the NBA championship.

    By that benchmark, Pippen never did that even the year Jordan retired. I also recall he didn't do squat in Portland after his Chitown days when the Blazers thought they were getting this key guy to push them over the top. He certainly wasn't the #1 to Jordan's 1A in the Bull's dynasty.

    So what exactly are you trying to say here? How can you really say with such certainty that he Pipplen would have been a franchise player leading somebody to the promised land without Jordan, Ho Grant, Phil Jackson, Rodman, etc.

    To compare that context to DG trying to lead this combination of players under JOB to the promised land just seems misguided on so many levels. And I still think you are underestimating the importance of Pippen playing with Jordan in what Pippen accomplished and became as a player. Sure the guy had great talent, but what you are basically saying is akin to saying take Jordan out of the equation and Pippen leads them to multiple championships.
    I never said that, what I am trying to say is that Danny is not even close to Pippen. He was the second to Jordan but he was still one of the best players in the league, is like having Lebron and Durant on the same team I think.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I never said that, what I am trying to say is that Danny is not even close to Pippen. He was the second to Jordan but he was still one of the best players in the league, is like having Lebron and Durant on the same team I think.
    And what I'm saying is you take Jordan away from Pippen and he's still a good player, but he's probably not one of the best players in the league and you can't underestimate the extreme significance of Jordan bringing the level he attained out of him. So put DG next to Kobe or LeBron today and I don't think the Pipeen comparison would be far off, both b/c Granger is a good player who would improve playing next to and being pushed and mentored by those guys and the coaches they have.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I never said that, what I am trying to say is that Danny is not even close to Pippen. He was the second to Jordan but he was still one of the best players in the league, is like having Lebron and Durant on the same team I think.
    And while you did not say it, you certainly intimate it if you read the sequence of your threads. It's unfair to DG to state he cant' lead a team to the promised land then bring up the comparison to Pippen who was never charged with to bear the direct responsibility to do that.

    And I'm saying this as a guy who agrees with you. Danny is unlikely to lead a team to the promised land withou another player of equal or better stature. Pippen did not prove to be different in that sense as good as he was.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    And while you did not say it, you certainly intimate it if you read the sequence of your threads. It's unfair to DG to state he cant' lead a team to the promised land then bring up the comparison to Pippen who was never charged with to bear the direct responsibility to do that.

    And I'm saying this as a guy who agrees with you. Danny is unlikely to lead a team to the promised land withou another player of equal or better stature. Pippen did not prove to be different in that sense as good as he was.
    IIRC, Pippen "Asked Out" of a game on the last play of a play-off game - w/o Jordan of course, & they were a 1st rd. exit. No way he does that w/ MJ around, or he gets punched ala S.Kerr (& others).
    Look up Pippen in the dictionary & you will not find "Robin", nor will you find "Batman" - you will only see "Louis Lane" AKA "Sumerman's Bytch"!
    IMO only Kobe & the King are capable of having "bytch's" in today's NBA, but neither have dragged one to (questionable) "Top 50" status like MJ did.

    If Kobe is the "Mamba" & L.James is "The King", then MJ should be forever known as the "Mongoose God", because w/ all do respect, he is what both KB & LJ espire to be. He is what every boy, man, & ninja espires to be. He was, & likely be for years & years to come, "The Best"!
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    IIRC, Pippen "Asked Out" of a game on the last play of a play-off game - w/o Jordan of course, & they were a 1st rd. exit.
    That's half right. Pippen's team lost in the second round in 1994. It just felt like the 1st round with how dominant they were in the 90's. Jordan returned at the end of 1995 and the Bulls lost again in the second round...before their second three-peat.

    As for Pippen, yes he benefitted tremendously playing with Jordan. However, I watched hundreds of Bulls games live...and Pippen was on a different planet defensively compared to Danny. Just on the basis of defense, Pippen was a more talented basketball player. Scottie also had a better handle and got to the rim more often and more effectively than Danny. ...but the only substantial difference was defense...which is half the game and probably a big reason why Pippen was considered so highly.

    As for Scottie from a leadership standpoint, I think he stunk terribly. He couldn't deal with the expectations in Chicago after MJ went to go play ball...but he also never played on a team anywhere close to this bad...this or last year. His worst team as a Bull went .573....and his year without Jordan the Bulls were 55-27....or .671.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    As for Pippen, yes he benefitted tremendously playing with Jordan. However, I watched hundreds of Bulls games live...and Pippen was on a different planet defensively compared to Danny. Just on the basis of defense, Pippen was a more talented basketball player. Scottie also had a better handle and got to the rim more often and more effectively than Danny. ...but the only substantial difference was defense...which is half the game and probably a big reason why Pippen was considered so highly.
    Correct on all accounts.
    I was not trying to say Danny was as good or better then Danny, I was talking about how much Pippen was "because" of MJ. IMO he maintained such a high defensive presence throughout his career because MJ cared so much & lead by example on defense. There's no doubt they made each other better, thus the respect they have for one another.

    Now, back to topic a bit:

    "Who is the best (reasonable) "Superman/ Batman" for Danny?"

    -I would love C.Boozer. IMO he is the best mix of strength/toughness, scoring, robounding, etc. to aid both Danny & Roy. The better Roy gets on the interior, the better Danny (& this team) will be.
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