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Thread: In 15 Days.....

  1. #1
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    Default In 15 Days.....

    ... The trade deadline will be here & we will have a better idea what kind of shape we will likely be in and what direction TPTB well be taking us in for +/- the next 12 months.

    12 months you ask? While it is possible the off-season could bring moves, the reality is that any team willing to take on one of our expirings will be the same ones willing to pay even more at the deadline n/y. Most of the names that would fit our stated goal of adding a "2nd big name" to this roster will be available THIS off-season, not next. So, IMO, the moves we Make/ Don't Make in the next 15 days will likely key actors in the execution of our "3 Year Plan".

    Lets look ahead to 2011 for a moment.
    When I look at the possible names that we will have an opportunity to add, I am under-whelmed. The ones who do make me drool a little are mostle RFA's & likely to stay put. The list of pure FA's (eleminating those who will likely be available t/y) is slim at best, leaving the majority of "big names" as either Player Options, or Early Term Options. The list of those who IMO fit out stated goal & fit the age we will likely look to add to our core are as follows:
    True FA's: Dirk, T.Parker, C.Landry
    RFA's: K.Durant, A.Horford, M.Conely, G.Oden, M.Gasol, J.Noah, J.Green, M.Chalmers
    Plater Options: C.Paul, D.Williams, G.wallace
    Early Term Option: D.Howard, E.Brand

    That's it!
    When I look at that list, I do not see many "realilistic" options to use our money on. The RFA's are the most intriguing, but their teams have the choice to match, meaning they are most likely to stay. I still kinda think GO & MC might be a possibility, but that is just a thought).
    Now, compare these names to the "Dream list" likely available t/y that we would have on our radar:
    (Combo of FA's, RFA's, PO, ETO's):
    -James, Wade, Bosh, Mello, Duncan, J.Johnson (all unrealilistic!), Amare, Boozer, R.Gay, D.Lee, Manu, R.Allen, R.Felton, McGrady, Ty.Thomas, ...

    The biggest difference is that the '10 list are "stars/ difference makers". The '11 List has a few, but is not anywhere in the same league IMO.
    Soo....

    Is '11 cap space really worth anything, or should we be working like hell to move any/ all '11 cap expirings NOW in hopes of landing a "Robin" for Danny - (or a new Batman, & demote Danny to Robin!)?

    IMO, you strike NOW!!!
    Move Murph for Z & a pick before Cle get A.Jamison (like the King wants!) & forget Hickerson, or you likely get "stuck" w/ Murph for 12 more months! Try like hell to get Jeff back on the court t/w, & try to convince a contender he's healthy. If he's not healthy enough to trade, work out a buyout, or hope insurance covers his deal so at least it can be an asset in 11 months when the Insurance covers him (ala M.Harpring t/y, T.Ratliff a few yrs ago). I would like to keep Dun, as I think he is a nice 6th man, but I move him for space t/y if I can (I have recently changed my mind on this!). Pray someone needs/ wants TJ for nothing, but in reality TJ is likely ours, or unless he is completely crazy & walks away.

    15 Days & Counting....
    Continue to bash JO'B all you want. Question Danny's commitment & attitude, call out leadership for extending Jeff &/pr not moving him sooner, debate the satistics of small ball, & continue to blame Murphy for the recession/ H1N1, communism, & global warming - but realize this:

    In 15 Days, you will know what your Pacers will be, and what the 3 year plan is all about. Do we add payroll or a "Robin" to our "Batman", or do we face 12 more monthe of "Dark Nights?"
    Just my thoughts anyway....
    Last edited by PacerGuy; 02-04-2010 at 12:18 AM.
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    I understand your logic, face it I am 100% against making a move. I believe we should see a line up of AJ Price, Brandon Rush, Danny Granger, & Roy Hibbert. B 4 we rush and make a bad trade. Murphy, Dunleavy, & TJ Ford all expiring and a top ten draft pick would be very logical for any contending team to take on. They must give a young player or a quality veteran and two first round picks (later) Face it an expiring contract combined with a top ten pick will land this franchise what it needs ie A Batman. Granger is Robin!!!!

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    What if Washington does go into full repair mode and gets Jamison moved to CLE. Clearly then they want out from Arenas and his deal, and probably do anyway.

    Well we are stuck with Troy then, but they want to shorten GAs contract and aren't just tweeking at that point with Jamison already moved.

    TJ Ford and Troy cut off 3 years from Arenas' deal, saving them $60m on the life of his contract. Indy turns two expirings into an all-star...maybe.

    It's a huge risk for Indy and the baggage needs to be cleaned up obviously. But despite the nature of his incident, I do see how he could possibly save his image. He's already off to a good, though late, start.

    Arenas/Price
    Rush/Jones
    Granger/Dun
    draft pick/Tyler
    Roy/Solo/draft pick

    I hate to say it given what's just happened, but it's tempting. Sure would sell tickets.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What if Washington does go into full repair mode and gets Jamison moved to CLE. Clearly then they want out from Arenas and his deal, and probably do anyway.

    Well we are stuck with Troy then, but they want to shorten GAs contract and aren't just tweeking at that point with Jamison already moved.

    TJ Ford and Troy cut off 3 years from Arenas' deal, saving them $60m on the life of his contract. Indy turns two expirings into an all-star...maybe.

    It's a huge risk for Indy and the baggage needs to be cleaned up obviously. But despite the nature of his incident, I do see how he could possibly save his image. He's already off to a good, though late, start.

    Arenas/Price
    Rush/Jones
    Granger/Dun
    draft pick/Tyler
    Roy/Solo/draft pick

    I hate to say it given what's just happened, but it's tempting. Sure would sell tickets.

    Ya know, I could see the media completely bashing this at first, but just look at what Memphis has done. They've made Randolph, and Tinsley look good. Why couldn't we take on Arenas if that meant playoffs again?
    Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What if Washington does go into full repair mode and gets Jamison moved to CLE. Clearly then they want out from Arenas and his deal, and probably do anyway.

    Well we are stuck with Troy then, but they want to shorten GAs contract and aren't just tweeking at that point with Jamison already moved.

    TJ Ford and Troy cut off 3 years from Arenas' deal, saving them $60m on the life of his contract. Indy turns two expirings into an all-star...maybe.

    It's a huge risk for Indy and the baggage needs to be cleaned up obviously. But despite the nature of his incident, I do see how he could possibly save his image. He's already off to a good, though late, start.

    Arenas/Price
    Rush/Jones
    Granger/Dun
    draft pick/Tyler
    Roy/Solo/draft pick

    I hate to say it given what's just happened, but it's tempting. Sure would sell tickets.

    I can't believe you posted this! Oh, I'm not condeming, it's just as I was doing my daily diligence of looking at the box scores I was thinking about the samething. I was also thinking of Blatche too. I've always kept my eye on him over the years. A few years ago when he was a RFA I wanted Bird to go after him, but at that time the Pacers still had the Hulk.

    My fear of getting Arenas isn't the baggage issue, but his health issue. We all know the Pacers,and the luck they have with injuries.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
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    Why couldn't we take on Arenas if that meant playoffs again?

    Two words.... Herb Simon.


    He can't afford another hit PR wise with a "Bad Boy" having problems, and the extra 60 mil salary of GA over the future years.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    What if Washington does go into full repair mode and gets Jamison moved to CLE... (snip)

    Well we are stuck with Troy then... (snip)
    I've seen multiple reports saying multiple teams were interested in Murphy. I doubt it's Cleveland or bust.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    If you bring in Arenas, which for as cheap as Seth is talking about here, isn't a bad idea. You should talk Dungy into mentoring him very publicly just like he's done with Vick. Arenas with Dungy on his side is 1,000,000 times more palatable in Indy than Arenas by himself.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    For the record, I was on the Ford & Murphy for Arenas bandwagon over a month ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    If Washington really wants to get out of Arenas' deal, we could offer them Ford & Murphy.
    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Arenas has played in all 29 of the Wizards' games this year and is putting up 23/7/4. He had a rough past couple of years due to injuries, but he's back to All-Star form this season. I'm not one who thinks we'll land anything major in free agency (think along the lines of what Detroit landed this past summer), so yes, I'd strongly consider it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Arenas' stock dropped like a rock after playing just 15 games over the previous two seasons, but he looks back to his old self to me. 22.7 ppg (10th) and a career-high 6.9 apg (9th), and perhaps most importantly, he's missed a total of ZERO games this season.

    It's oft-discussed that the Pacers may be better off trading for an established talent rather than gambling in free agency. If that's the case, I'm not sure anything better's gonna come along in the next 14 months than Arenas. He can help the team win now, and he's an exciting, 'name player' that would draw interest from the more casual Pacer fans.
    Of course this was all prior to the handgun drama, which was likely the nail in the coffin to any proposed deal, assuming it was even feasible to begin with.

  13. #10
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    I'm uninterested in Arenas.

    There's only one trade that needs to happen this season... we need to move one of our big contracts for capspace. That'll give us room to use our exceptions this summer without fear of the LT. Ideally that would be Ford, although I dunno how likely that is. I'd love it if we picked up a young prospect or some picks, but they're not dealbreakers for me.

    This summer we can begin making bigger moves, but at the very least we need a cap move before the deadline.
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I'm uninterested in Arenas.
    Agreed about Arenas. His uniform number both indicates my level of interest in him, as well as the contract that it would take to get even a team like us to have any interest in him because of the extreme likelihood of additional issues with him whether they are health issues or other issues.

    Leopards, once they are adults, rarely change their spots.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Aquiring Gilbert Arenas at this point is pure insanity. He never took Washington anywhere, for one thing, and there is way too much baggage there to justify that move... no matter how "cheap" it comes. Cheap of course not being relative to his massive contract we would have to pay.
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  18. #13
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    I prefer Baron Davis, his contract is not as big and his health this year is been better.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I prefer Baron Davis, his contract is not as big and his health this year is been better.
    Ignoring that he will not want to come to Indy ( small market compared to LA ).....his contract isn't as big as Arenas....but still big enough for a 30 year old PG that has a history of being injury prone ( he'll be owed $14.75 mil in 2012-2013 at the end of his contract at the age of 33 ) and has a history being a Diva.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-04-2010 at 02:08 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Don't expect much, if anything, to happen this season at the trade deadline. I think we'll make a ton of changes next season, though.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    I've seen multiple reports saying multiple teams were interested in Murphy. I doubt it's Cleveland or bust.
    Just to get this thread back on track......we've heard multiple reports of other Teams being interested in Murphy...but we have not really been given any names or real details.

    Unless Bird is still working the phones and it hasn't really been leaked by other sources, given that we have heard nothing outside of Cleveland leads me to believe that there may have been some initial interest...but none that have really progressed to the level of talks that Bird had with Cleveland.

    IMHO.....when it comes to Murphy....it is Cleveland or Bust. I've always like Foster....but if we don't move Murphy in 2 weeks.....I really hope that he does retire after this wretched season ends. If Murphy isn't dumped....we need to shave off some $$$ from the 2010-2011 SalaryCap just to give us some breathing room in the Summer.

    For the record, I think that we are going to regret not simply dumping Murphy for Cap relief before the 2009-2010 Trade deadline. I don't think that we will get the type of deal that many of you are hoping for. At best...we will be getting back a Player(s) with a longer contract ( think Andres Nocioni or Corey Maggette as opposed to Amare or Joe Johnson ) where all we will end up doing is "kicking the can" down the road when it comes to having any SalaryCap/Financial Flexibility ( think what happened on a Financial end to the Team when we traded SJax/Harrington's shorter contracts for MurphLeavy's contracts ). I know that many of you disagree with me....but IMHO, that is the likely scenario.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-04-2010 at 02:23 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    For the record, I was on the Ford & Murphy for Arenas bandwagon over a month ago:





    Of course this was all prior to the handgun drama, which was likely the nail in the coffin to any proposed deal, assuming it was even feasible to begin with.
    Not trying to step on your thing at all. Normally I'm not that big on trade ideas. Someone mentioned getting him at a party this weekend, not someone who knows the team nearly at the level we do, and it got me wondering.

    Then when you add in the CLE, WSH, IND, Troy dynamic and the fact that the Pacers would love to turn Troy/TJ into something, it started sounding a lot less crazy and a lot more "two sides both in tough spots help each other out".


    I'm NOT an Arenas fan really and I worry about health a ton. But OTOH the Troy, TJ, Dun thing has been really tough and ticket sales are in huge trouble. If GA could play next year and isn't in jail you have to wonder.

    Then again is it even possible that they would try to do this before the deadline? Seems pretty big and with him out you don't get any PR help this year.

    But Troy and TJ both moved....that's quite a lot. Tough call between this and they Troy for Z (buyout) and 29th pick.

  23. #18
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    And Cable I'm really mostly in your camp here. You know I hated the GSW move from day 1, primarily from a cost perspective (and yet I put in that GA deal which can be seen as something similar ).

    I do think too many posters have this vision of huge players coming back for either expiring deals or as FA signings eventually. I don't think the Pacers will add significant talent through either of those methods.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    And Cable I'm really mostly in your camp here. You know I hated the GSW move from day 1, primarily from a cost perspective (and yet I put in that GA deal which can be seen as something similar ).

    I do think too many posters have this vision of huge players coming back for either expiring deals or as FA signings eventually. I don't think the Pacers will add significant talent through either of those methods.
    Of course, it's entirely possible that we work out some S&T for some Top Tier FA.....but at what cost? BRush? Hansbrough? Multiple 1st round picks? Willingness to take on future Salary? Giving up BRush or Hansbrough along with a single 1st round pick may be worth it ( which I assume would be their starting asking price ).....but anything beyond that? That's questionable.

    But even if I ignore all that.....I think that Teams willing to do a S&T for their Top Tier FA will field better offers from Teams that are under the SalaryCap ( and therefore send back a TPE instead of actual Players that won't affect their SalaryCap IF THEY choose not to exercize it ) and can offer more then just a Pick ( such as better prospects that they can afford to part with....something that we can't afford at this point ). On top of that....you think that any Top Tier FA will want to come to Indy? Many of them are on record saying that they want to end up on a Championship ( if not Playoff ) bound Team. We're no where near that for the next 2 seasons.

    IMHO...the likely scenario is that we'd end up with some Player(s) that won't impact the Team as much as we'd need in order to make a difference at the cost of any future Financial/SalaryCap flexiblility that we have. Again...think the GSW trade and what it did to this Team on a Financial and Talent level.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Not trying to step on your thing at all. Normally I'm not that big on trade ideas. Someone mentioned getting him at a party this weekend, not someone who knows the team nearly at the level we do, and it got me wondering.

    Then when you add in the CLE, WSH, IND, Troy dynamic and the fact that the Pacers would love to turn Troy/TJ into something, it started sounding a lot less crazy and a lot more "two sides both in tough spots help each other out".


    I'm NOT an Arenas fan really and I worry about health a ton. But OTOH the Troy, TJ, Dun thing has been really tough and ticket sales are in huge trouble. If GA could play next year and isn't in jail you have to wonder.

    Then again is it even possible that they would try to do this before the deadline? Seems pretty big and with him out you don't get any PR help this year.

    But Troy and TJ both moved....that's quite a lot. Tough call between this and they Troy for Z (buyout) and 29th pick.
    I think Birds position is relatively safe. However, if he suggested the Pacers make an Arenas deal, I think he would be fired on the spot.

    Arenas epitomizes the type a player that put us into the mess that we are currently in. And I disagree he would fill up the seats. And Herb Simon knows that.

    The guy just pleaded guilty to a felony gun charge. He may have to spend time in jail. How quickly we forget Tinsley, Jackson, Daniels, etc.

    Pacers make that deal and the vast majority of the fanbase would say WTF? They could play the games at a junior high gym and not sell out.

    They are finally nearing the completion of digging out from under that era of lawbreaking primadonnas. Murphy and Dun will soon be expiring. Do you really think theyre gonna go out and get another one-only this time one that makes 20 million a year? Not to mention the fact Arenas plays ball in such a fashion that many would despise. Hes the consummate gunner.

    Seems all the losing has affected our sense of reality a bit. There are two chances they deal for Gil. Slim and none.

    And Slim just left town.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    looks like charlottes hardcore shopping augustin for a vet bigman
    i personally wouldnt mind seeing him here in indy

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by HanSolo View Post
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    looks like charlottes hardcore shopping augustin for a vet bigman
    i personally wouldnt mind seeing him here in indy
    Odd....I thought that one of the reasons why they drafted Augustin was because they missed out on trying to trade for Ford ( a few seasons ago ).

    I know that they are doing better now and probably looking to not make any real change....but I guess Felton must be doing much better.

    Too bad that Foster is out....Foster totally fits the type of Player that Brown likes to have on his Team.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    I could see Bosh thinking of Indy as a place to come to. Think about playing next to Danny, Hibby, Rush and AJ. Maybe he thinks he could be the guy that puts this young core over the top to being competitive.

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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    I would love to pick up Tayshaun Prince in a Derrick McKey-like roll.

  31. #25
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    Default Re: In 15 Days.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I can't believe you posted this! Oh, I'm not condeming, it's just as I was doing my daily diligence of looking at the box scores I was thinking about the samething. I was also thinking of Blatche too. I've always kept my eye on him over the years. A few years ago when he was a RFA I wanted Bird to go after him, but at that time the Pacers still had the Hulk.

    My fear of getting Arenas isn't the baggage issue, but his health issue. We all know the Pacers,and the luck they have with injuries.
    I'd rather have Caron Butler. That's Robin! Plus he has no major off court stuff to worry about.

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