Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 182

Thread: Pacers asking too much for Murph

  1. #1

    Default Pacers asking too much for Murph

    http://hoopshype.com/

    Pacers are asking Cleveland for Hickson, Z and several draft picks for Murphy. Who does Bird think this guy is?

  2. #2
    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,324

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    This is just like the owners wanting a hard cap and salaries at 45 percent.

    Its a starting point. We got about 2 weeks of negotiations to see what we actually end up with.

  3. #3
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Just end up Murphy for Z and the 29th or 30th pick and I'm in.

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,952

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    We've endured this much, I just want Larry to be patient and get the best deal possible.
    If we can't get more then a salary dump for Murphy then I hope Larry holds onto him until next season when his expiring contract will surely bring more then that back in return. If the Cavs would throw in a 1st. round pick in 2011, or 2012 then that could be a decent pick if Lebron leaves. Every decision Larry makes with any of the expiring contracts should be focused on the impact in 2011 and beyond.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Pacerized For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,631

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Murphy is a good player....but he's not a good fit for this team. I want to maximize our assets as much as we can....but you and I know that he's just isn't worth that much. Since his defense is only helpful against opposing Big Men that are equally as slow that relies on a finesse Low-Post game ( as opposed to one that relies on strength )......which pretty much amounts to non-existent on a Team like the Cavs where they have a Frontcourt of Shaq/Z/SideShow Bob.......all he becomes is one of the Offensive scoring options on a Team like the Cavs where he would ( at best ) be the 3rd ( but more then likely the 4th ) Scoring option on the Team.

    IMHO....asking for even an additional 1st round pick for a "decent to solid" offensive Big Man that is more of a determent on Defense is too much. I just want Cap relief and maybe Leon Powe ( just to shore up our Frontcourt ) so that we can simply move on from this wretched season.
    Last edited by CableKC; 02-02-2010 at 11:07 AM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  8. #6
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,828

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    I'd be happy with Z and JJ or Z and a 1st
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



  9. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Dillon, Co
    Posts
    3,952

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Z and a 1st. would be fine with me, just not this years 1st.

  10. #8
    Member odeez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    3,776

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Who says we are asking too much, we don't even really know what is being asked. But this small article is supposed to be the word on the trade, it's just leaked out to try to influence the deal. Don't believe everything you read. Draft picks would be nice, doubt the would part with Hickson. Z works, then buy him out.
    Avatar photo credit: Bahram Mark Sobhani - AP

  11. #9
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Wells said the same thing in his blog (that we're asking for Z, Hickson, and more than one pick).

  12. #10
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    If management can't figure out how to trade him this month, when his value has never been higher, then we've got real problems.

    When Golden State had him, he was virtually untradeable and they had to be willing to take Jackson, Harrington and Saras just to unload him.

    That was entirely a trade of "you take my trash, I'll take your trash". Except that the Warriors were far better (by better, I mean "faster") at turning our old trash into something else. We've still got thier old trash, except for Ike who we left on the curb in a recycling bin. (You know I like Dunleavy, but the trash metaphor works.)

    Murphy has actually - thanks to the miracle of hollow stats - value and a contending team that he could play a "Sam Perkins, circa 1999-2000" role on.

    Even if we could only get a pair of second-rounders for him, that's much much better than we could have received a year ago for him. Make. Something. Happen.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ChicagoJ For This Useful Post:


  14. #11
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If management can't figure out how to trade him this month, when his value has never been higher, then we've got real problems.
    I think his value was higher last summer than it is now because he's performed worse since then.

    I think his value will be higher next summer and next season because regardless of performance he will be an expiring contract (heading into the new CBA, no less).

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  16. #12
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,528

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    You don't have to take negative equity for Troy, ie longer contract or worse player or draft pick sweetner. The biggest risk is that if he doesn't stay healthy, he's playing as well as he is going to. If he could stay healthy, keep productive, and be an expiring next season, he'd exceed his current value, I'd guess. That's alot of ifs and I'm not sure even how much more his value will go up.

    Like I said in the beginning, at least it's not negative anymore.

  17. #13
    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Castle de Verde (Greencastle)
    Posts
    1,373
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Troy Murphy is worth more than an expiring Ilgauskis and what amounts to a guaranteed 2nd round pick. If the Cavs think Troy is the missing piece to a Championship they should have to give up more than pick 30 for him ( considering Z would just be waived and return to the Cavs).

    The Pacers may be asking for 2- #2 picks just because it said picks doesn't mean even 1- #1 was asked for. If the Cavaliers want Murphy badly enough Larry Bird should stick to his demand Hickson be included, his job is make the Pacers better not the Cavs.

  18. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to diamonddave00 For This Useful Post:


  19. #14
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Z, Powe, and the #29 pick works fine for me. Throw in some cash to cover the buyout, maybe, but other than that let's just get this thing done.

    Holding out for Hickson's just not realistic.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Anthem For This Useful Post:


  21. #15

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    I think that's a fair trade.

    Honestly, We'll probably buy out Z. So essentially Cleveland just wants to give us a 30th pick for Murphy.

    If they think Murphy is that important, then he's worth more than that. I'm with Bird here. We can get a better deal for Murphy than that, whether it's this year or next.

    Truth is, we have the power here. We don't have to get rid of Murphy. It's not like it'll matter much either way for us this season. It matters to the Cavs though. We'll be able to get rid of Murphy. He's got extremely good stats and he'll be an expiring next season. No need to rush. If Bird's going to pull the trigger here, he should make sure we get something.
    Last edited by Sookie; 02-02-2010 at 11:36 AM.

  22. #16
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    His "performance" is misleading. His stats are down slightly but so are his minutes so I'm not sure there is any statistical significance there.

    I'd comment more on the "hollow stats" but we all know (a) what I mean by that and (b) you-know-who will be on here making one sentence arguments that, of course, are never backed up with any facts or substance, and not even backed up by all that much opinion either.

    He's not playing any better or worse than he did last season. His so-called decline in stats is not the reason we are this far under 0.500. He could be putting up 26ppg and taking 16 rebounds per game away from our guards and we'd still be way under 0.500 because we lack a physcial presence.

    Put him in a role where he compliments a player that is a physcial post presence and he might be really useful. His stats might go down and his impactiveness () might go up.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  23. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ChicagoJ For This Useful Post:


  24. #17

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    I don't see whats unfair about the deal honestly. How many picks is it 3 1sts and 5 2nds?
    Z, Hickson, 2011 1st and 2 2nds sounds.......... like the need to send some cash as well. If they can Iggy or Jamison more power to them, but we can't just give them Murphy for basically nothing, it would be a disservice to ourselves.

    Danny Green could take Hicksons place but we need to upgrade one of the 2nds to a 1st.

  25. #18
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    I would call dropping from 45% to 39% in 3p% a significant decline.

  26. #19
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,631

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If management can't figure out how to trade him this month, when his value has never been higher, then we've got real problems.

    When Golden State had him, he was virtually untradeable and they had to be willing to take Jackson, Harrington and Saras just to unload him.

    That was entirely a trade of "you take my trash, I'll take your trash". Except that the Warriors were far better (by better, I mean "faster") at turning our old trash into something else. We've still got thier old trash, except for Ike who we left on the curb in a recycling bin. (You know I like Dunleavy, but the trash metaphor works.)
    Although d_c and many here would have to confirm this...I thought that it was the Pacers insistance on getting Diogu that the GSW trade expanded from a Dunleavy for SJax to one that included Harrington and Murphy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Murphy has actually - thanks to the miracle of hollow stats - value and a contending team that he could play a "Sam Perkins, circa 1999-2000" role on.
    It's sad....but Sam Perkins is a good way to describe Murphy.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  27. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    yeah, this is to much for Murphy........they will be lucky if they get big Z and 1st round pick

  28. #21
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...murphtr01.html

    I decided to compare Troy's per-36 minutes numbers from last year and this year. It's actually a lot closer than I thought it would be, though there are some differences:

    Stat - 08/09 - 09/10

    FG - 5.3 - 6.0
    FGA - 11.1 - 12.4
    FG% - .475 - .485

    3P - 2.3 - 2.0
    3PA - 5.2 - 5.2
    3P% - .450 - .392

    FT - 2.2 - 2.1
    FTA - 2.7 - 2.7
    FT% - .826 - .787

    ORB - 2.1 - 2.0
    DRB - 10.4 - 9.2
    TRB - 12.5 - 11.2

    AST - 2.5 - 2.4
    STL - 0.8 - 1.0
    BLK - 0.5 - 0.7

    TOV - 1.7 - 1.6
    PF - 3.3 - 2.9

    PTS -15.1 - 16.2

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  30. #22
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Although d_c and many here would have to confirm this...I thought that it was the Pacers insistance on getting Diogu that the GSW trade expanded from a Dunleavy for SJax to one that included Harrington and Murphy.


    It's sad....but Sam Perkins is a good way to describe Murphy.
    Sam Perkins could guard centers.

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  32. #23
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,528

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Just for perspective, I think you can basically buy a late first round pick these days, so that teams don't have to have that guaranteed contract on their books. A bottom first round pick is seen as a hinderance by many teams.

    Things to consider:

    I wonder what they prorated buy out for Z would be?

    Wonder how close Leon Powe is to healthy?

    No way I think Cleveland should or would consider future draft picks, past this year, since they don't even know if Lebron will be there. Sell that to your fan base, no Lebron and no #1 pick, the following year? Yes, looking at you Isiah Thomas.

    JJ Hickson would be a nice get, but I mean he's in no way shape or form a "can't miss" or an immediate impact guy in the way the Pacers would need. I guess what I'm saying is he is absolutely still young and developing. Clev Hickson (with Lebron and low expectations) is far greater than Indy Hickson (with responsibility and expectations).

  33. The Following User Says Thank You to Speed For This Useful Post:


  34. #24
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,528

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...murphtr01.html

    I decided to compare Troy's per-36 minutes numbers from last year and this year. It's actually a lot closer than I thought it would be, though there are some differences:

    Looks like he's right on course, really. He just shot all world from 3 pt land last year at .45. Not surprising this went down. Rest looks very comparable.

  35. #25
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Age
    44
    Posts
    17,000

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers asking too much for Murph

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I would call dropping from 45% to 39% in 3p% a significant decline.
    From .45 to 0.392 is a drop of 5.8%. But what does that mean?

    1/0.058 ~= 17.25. Troy shoots 4.5 3FGA per game. 17.25/4.5 is approximately 4 games.

    Every four games, Troy is hitting one fewer three-point shot.

    A decline... yes, absolutely. Noticeable? Only with a calculator.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


Similar Threads

  1. Pacers-Celtics Matchups (IndyStar)
    By ChicagoJ in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-28-2010, 09:36 AM
  2. Pacers End the Season with a 115-108 Win Over Bucks
    By rocksballer58 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-16-2009, 04:47 PM
  3. Pacers Destroy Thunder, 117-109, Slim Playoff Hopes Still Alive
    By rocksballer58 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-06-2009, 04:23 PM
  4. J.J. to the Pacers, Not a Redickulous Thought!
    By FerengiMiller in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 110
    Last Post: 07-19-2008, 01:08 AM
  5. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-18-2005, 12:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •