why not try Roy and Mcbob together, what is he going to lose, another game?
why not try Roy and Mcbob together, what is he going to lose, another game?
Last edited by vnzla81; 01-28-2010 at 12:27 PM.
I can't believe this team just can't seem to shake off the brawl. And all the strange moves lately. I know Ford hasn't been great, but I don't think he's been bad even to ban. We did that with Tinsley and we couldn't trade him and eventually had to buy him out (even after Bird vehemently said he wouldn't). So we just ban players and then buy them out if we can't trade them? That's a terrible philosophy and I can see even less people wanting to play here.
Bird has put himself in a bad situation with extending JOB, drafting Hans, really mind boggling moves with Tinsley and Ford, etc. If Bird's 3 year plan doesn't work, and it's not looking too good, he's probably going to be out. Not that I wouldn't mind that. Great players doesn't mean they'll be great GMs/Coaches. It just makes me frustrated and sad as a Pacer fan to see our once proud organization seemingly fallen apart all around us.
It's not easy seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but hopefully this organization can turn things around. Even if that means getting rid of a legend in Larry Bird.
Wait, so after starting Roy how many dozens of games last year and this year, NOW suddenly he's benching him to somehow protect him or to not "throw him out there"? What?
Come on. You know damn well he's doing it because he wants a big who shoots 3's.
The shot selection was not bad at all last night. I was more upset about the turnovers. The ball was not taken care of @ all.
Dunleavy Jr had another bad game. I am not upset with a starting any starting line up @ all. Not like we were down by 20 early ie Hawks & Heat game. The third quater was a bad quater for the team and Hibbert was out there. I just want to know why JOB sticks with Dunleavy over D Jones in the fourth quater of that game?
Call In show is going to be very good this week.
Now, some people would say that is all because Roy is great and would be great no matter what. I think he has improved, sure, but some of it is the changed circumstances.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...
Here's a scary thought...
If our team didn't have a coach at all I think our offense would actually look better... certainly no worse. There's no structure now. I actually think amongst themselves they'd create something that would at least resemble structure.
..And that would help the defense...
Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."
Let's not blame Troy Murphy for being Troy Murphy. He has his limitations and we all know them. Troy knows them too. He still plays as hard as he can and does what he's asked. We may not want him (or T.J., for that matter) on the team anymore, but let's just make sure it's clear that it's a basketball decision, not a personal one.
I think J'Ob is why Murphy gets all the hate around here. Murphy has been the same guy his whole career in my eyes. At Notre Dame he could shoot the 3 and less then competitive rebounds. At Golden St. he banged underneath a little more but still was the same guy. After the broken nose issues in Golden St he backed away from the inside contact, and fit right into J'Ob wants of a 3pt shooting PF (see Antonie Walker)
The problem with O'Brien is that he tries to fix the team's issue around Murphy. He wants to play Murphy... that's his guy, and Murphy unfortunately puts up the stats to justify what Jim is doing.
All the rules and concepts apply to everyone but Murphy (and perhaps Granger). Like you have to play solid defense, and don't get me wrong, I think Murphy does TRY to play defense once in awhile, but he's just not good at it, yet he still gets minutes.
We all know the +/- stats, but we don't see Murphy benched for that like other players have been.
Turnovers over off shooting nights... Murphy still stays on the floor even though shooting is the main thing he brings to the table.. not benched (see Brandon Rush)
We have guys who have earned playing time when given the opportunity in McRoberts, Solo, and even Hansbrough at times, but their efforts are rewarded by limited minutes or DNP-CD b/c Murphy is O'Brien's guy
And don't get me wrong Murphy is a talented player, but his talents are limited, and what he brings to the table is what the Pacers need to be successful, but it's what O'Brien thinks we need to be successful..
So until O'Brien is relieved of his coaching duties, or his crutch Murphy is traded away, there's really no way of telling what this team can be or become.
You can't wait half the season to put out the team's success of the small ball lineup, quoting the team is 7-4 when starting a small ball, lineup, refusing to point out that small lineup was 5-0 or 5-1 without Murphy, and then try to put Murphy into the center position when he wasn't there when that lineup was successful.
It just doesn't make sense, and I know Bird or O'Brien has to be aware of this. Something has got to change, b/c otherwise Troy Murphy will become the next hated Pacer on the list, when he hasn't done anything wrong but follow the coaches orders.
Tj is already turning into the next Tinsley, let's not let this coach set us back another 3 years
I appreciate your use of the word hyperventilate. It shows me nothing but respect on a personal level.
My complaints about Roy starting or not starting have always been about my belief that he's our best choice for the role and that it's what's best for him. It was not "Oh Roy never starts" it was "Roy should start, and when he doesn't I'm usually pissed".
Actually I did say last year he did a good job of getting players to play hard(I mean, most of them had that mentality anyway, but I'll try and give him some of the credit) and he actually coached fairly well at the end of the season. I will say that. But he made horrible decisions throughout the season. Jim O'Brien did not get us those 36 wins though, the fact that we had players with more passion than the other teams players did.
That passion is gone now and Jim O'Brien has nothing else to hide behind. Like I've said many times, some guys here from another board might remember, afted his 3rd game coaching the Pacers I said he was a bad coach.
I usually feel like coaches should be given a fair chance. I hate when someone is given a bad team, then fired after one season for not succeeding. Jim O'Brien is just a bad coach though. He really is.
I posted this in the thread you deleted as well: Ever since coming to Indiana, the only thing O'Brien brought to the team is a bag full of excuses. He has not once(that I've seen) man up to any of the problems the team has faced. Instead, he has blamed everyone around him. He's put blame on rookies, he's put it on veterans who can't spread the floor, ect. He asked for defensive players, so Bird went a got defensive players, yet our defense hardly improved. Injuries have sucked, but other coaches have gotten away with it. Heck, Rick Carlisle took this team to the playoffs with Artest out the whole season and JO and Jackson gone for a long period of time. We had more NBDL players than the Warriors could ever dream of. What happened? We made the playoffs.
Rick Carlisle had his best players suspended and I still don't remember him using a bag full of excuses. I'm sure he mentioned it somewhere, he was constantly questioned about it all season, but I don't remember him ever finding a way to blame everyone else. He had a crap situation and dealt with it.
Last edited by Dr. Awesome; 01-28-2010 at 02:46 PM.
i was thinking are we the only team who seriously has ever player playing out of position except hibbert. I mean Watson really is not a PG, Jones plays almost a 3, granger is playing a 4, dun is playing a 2, murphy is playing a 3 or 5. If i gave you someone who excels in math and said no lets make him an English teacher does that make any damn sense?
JOB is a silly man
Don't Give In To Cynicism
As a newbie I probably have no right.........
But what is going on here with all the petty back and forth , I thought this board was more respectful of peoples rights to agree to disagree
Sittin on top of the world!
I don't understand what cynicism has to do with me and anyone else disagreeing about whether Roy or Troy should start at the center position.
I also don't see what's so petty about it. We're disagreeing. So what. It seems like you're specifically calling me out, and I don't really see why. Is it my frequency of posts on the subject? Is it somehow better if I just make a few really long posts instead? I don't know why you made this post, and I don't know what you think you'll gain out of it.
Roy should always start. Every single game.
Hibbert is the only player on the Pacers roster capable at starting at the 5. Murphy isn't a 5. Foster hasn't been good for 2 years now. Hansbrough is a PF. Solomon Jones isn't better than Hibbert, though if someone other than Hibbert had to start at 5 it should be him. McRoberts isn't a Center.
So, who would you suggest start at Center?
I think you can (at times) be quick to flex your muscle on here and berate people who differ in opinion than yours.
I know awhile ago I got screamed on for chosing the wrong green for scarastic post, and I thought you were a little out of line then
I do not, nor have ever had a personal problem with you. I know myself that I can overlook things or be insensitive at times
I also know that I made a post where I made a point to thank the staff for all their hardwork, an in particular yourself as I know this is done out of genoristy , with no revenue generated( I believe)
So I just wanted to comment and express my opininon in hopes that it is looked at another way
I enjoy this forum immensely and , things I enjoy and RESPECT I comment on
Hope thats ok, as I dont have a problem with anyone
Last edited by 90'sNBARocked; 01-28-2010 at 04:15 PM.
Sittin on top of the world!
Either you give the coach some credit for the wins and losses or you don't give him credit for either. You can't say mix and match. Blame him for everything this season and give him almost no credit for last season. If you want to say he didn't get us the 36 wins last season then you can't being fair give him all the blame for only 25 wins this season.
As far as who should start at center right now. Neither. A healthy Jeff Foster would give us the best chance of winning