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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

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Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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So, its about that time of year...

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  • So, its about that time of year...

    I'm reletively new to this board, at least in the since that this is my first full season posting here regularly...thats a weird word, "regularly". Anyway, I knew quite a few posters here from other boards before coming here and some of them know that at least once a year I like to post a thread that is basically one amorphous blob of opinion. Usually I try to hit on all the big subjects - players, coaches, GM, ect. from all different angles. This usually tends to be pretty long, so I doubt people will read the whole thing, but it has sparked some good discussions in the past on other boards. So I'm hoping it will do the same thing here. When I do this, I try to be as unbiased as possible. I like to think I'm a fairly unbiased fan, though I'm sure there will be some that disagree with that. Anyway, here it goes:

    Players:

    Danny Granger - If you had asked me last year whether or not I thought Danny could be a franchise player, I would have told you "yes". Now, I'm not so sure he will be, though I still think he can be. For whatever reason, I don't see the same fire behind Granger that I saw last year - now he's been settling for too many jumpshots/3's and avoiding contact. I think if Danny could develop the mentality of Gerald Wallace that he could be a top 7 player in the NBA. Granger has a unique gift in the sense that he could do it all. However, it seems we now get a Danny that focus' primarily on offense - which we do need from him, but I want to see the defensive/rebounding menace side of Danny more than we do. He only seems to bring that out against the LeBron's and Pierce's of the NBA. I want to see Granger step up and be "that guy" but he needs to stop taking so many 3's and give 100% on defense and rebounding all the time. I don't care if his scoring drops, look what Wallace has done in Charlotte - Granger is far more talented and could make a much bigger impact than that, especially since we have a better supporting cast.

    Roy Hibbert - I feel sorry for Roy. Here is a guy, who has worked his tail off since getting drafted by the Pacers, only to get stuck with a coach who doesn't have the slightest idea how to use him. I don't care who you have on your team, when you have a guy with Hibbert's size and skills, you develop him. I honestly believe our offense should revolve around Hibbert and not Granger. Clearly Granger is the better offensive player, but if you want to win you go inside out. When Hibbert starts, we'll go to him early, just to show the other team we will - then we don't pass the ball to him again until the 4the quarter for a few plays. Hibbert would even make it an easy transition as he is a very good passer for a big man and has actually drawn a lot of double teams. Granger and Rush would benefit greatly if our offense was ran around Hibbert for the full game. Heck, even Murphy would get more open looks. Also, I don't care who we are playing, Hibbert should start every game. We need to play our game, not the other teams. As for his defense, I believe he is better than he is given credit for. Most young Centers always get in foul trouble as it is, when you have guys like Ford, Dunleavy, Head, ect. on the perimeter who can't stay in front of their man and a guy like Murphy next to him, he is trying to guard his man, plus the guy who burned one of our bad defenders. If we had a good defensive PF next to him, I think he would shine more defensively.

    Brandon Rush - I have a feeling this one will spark a lot of controversy. Mainly because I still believe Brandon Rush has All-Star talent and potential. Much like Hibbert, I feel Rush is being misused. I live in Charlotte, and while I have always been a Pacers fan - I once had a quarter of the season tickets to the Charlotte Hornets. This was the year that Eddie Jones was an All-Star. Brandon Rush reminds me so much of Eddie Jones its ridiculous. When we first traded Williams to Dallas for Jones and the picks I was stoked because I thought Eddie Jones would be the perfect mentor. Point is, Rush is oozing with talent, but his talent is great for a set offense, not street ball. If we ran a half court offense through Hibbert, Rush would start to emerge as a good player I think. Even now, I would say Rush is one of the best one-on-one perimeter defenders in the NBA, he rarely gets lost and rarely falls for pump fakes. In fact, about 90% of the points his guys score on him seem to be very well set screens that he has to take the long way around. I can't say much about his team defense as we don't play team defense, but I'll say right now - once we make the playoffs, however long that takes, the NBA will start to notice Rush.

    Tyler Hansbrough - Tyler isn't a starter. Sorry to break it to all the fans hoping he will be, but he isn't. However, I will maintain till the day he leaves the NBA that he is a great guy to have off the bench. A huge discussion around here has been wether or not Tyler will improve his shooting % over his career. I think he will, but I don't think he'll ever have a good shooting %. He's far too agressive to only take very smart shots all the time - but with that comes all the FTA he will be getting which is why I'm okay with it. I hope we see Hansbrough retire a Pacer, I have a feeling he is our new Jeff Foster - however, I think he'll be more effective at Foster's age. I'll also say this. I am a die hard Tar Heel fan and have watched him for the last 4 years, but his defense in the NBA is so much better than he ever showed in college. Whenever we have played a team who went small ball, Hansbrough has had to guard a few SF's and has somehow played good perimeter defense on them, I was shocked - I never thought he would be the defender he is right now in the NBA, much less in his rookie year.

    AJ Price - Like Hansbrough, Price isn't a starter on a competitive team, however, like Hansbrough, I think he is a great player to have on the bench. Championship teams have role players like Hansbrough and Price and it looks like we found two of them in one draft. What has impressed me the most with Price is his attitude, he looks like a 10 year vet out on the court, not rookie like at all. Quite frankly, I think he should be starting over Watson as he seems to run the offense better than Watson does. This also goes back to my view of running the offense through Hibbert as Price would just give Hibbert more room to work with than Watson would. Price also seems to be the best playmaker we've had since Tinsley and before that Jackson. It is very refreshing seeing someone with his mentality and playmaking at the PG position. Like I said though - even though I wouldn't mind him starting the next few years(same with Hansbrough), I feel on a competitive team, he is a great backup, not a starter.

    Dahntay Jones - Jones is kinda a weird player for me. His defense hasn't been near as good as I had hoped, but his offense has been better than I anticipated. Some nights his defense looks great and his offense is terrible, then the next night is offense looks good and his defense is decent. I wish he could put them together more often than he does. Definitely a good role player on a Championship contender, but I'm not sure if he should really be in our future plans.

    Jeff Foster - I love the guy, who doesn't? But lets be honest, he has taken many steps back over the last few seasons. On top of being officially injury prone, he has always been a hustle player, players like that fade out more quickly when they can't rely on skill. As much as I wanted to see him retire as a Pacer, we would be much better off, as would he, if we traded him to a contender before everyone catches on that he isn't the same player he was a few seasons ago.

    Troy Murphy - Troy has definitely picked it up lately, which is a great thing as I was afraid his draft stock would start to slip. Now with his recent play, I think his value has rised a great deal to contending teams. Troy has taken a lot of heat around here, myself included, but in the big scheme of things, I don't think he deserves it. Jim O'Brien does not teach defense, I don't care what anyone says, I have not seen one bit of evidence since he has arrived in Indiana that he gives a lick about defense. On a good team, with a good coach, Murphy can be a decent defender. He tries, its not like he doesn't give effort, but we have no team defense, so weak individual defenders stand out that much more. Kinda like how Ray Allen's defense was masked once moving to Boston, I think a similar thing would happen with Murphy in a place like, oh I don't know, Cleveland? (Kinda like Mo Williams as well)

    TJ Ford - TJ Ford might honestly be the worst PG the Pacers have had since I've been a fan - which is as long as I can remember. He is to quote Sir Charles "turrible". I think he is part victim to Obie's style too though. Obie lets the team do whatever they want, Ford can be an effective PG if held under control. Obie doesn't do that. When Ford is running wild, he brings the whole team down with him, much like Tinsley did. Tinsley was very solid under a controlled offense like Carlisle ran, even if Tinsley thought he was better off in an up-tempo offense. Even though both of their skills match an up-tempo offense, they need a coach to control the offense so they can be held in check. At this point, his value is shot - hopefully we can unload him in the summer as an expiring contract.

    Mike Dunleavy - He is not the same player. I'm not even talking physically after returning from injury. He has seemed to lost what made him so effective, his high bball I.Q. He makes a lot of dumb mistakes now and doesn't seem like an effective playmaker like he was. I don't know, I'm just not sold on the player he is now - but I guess I wasn't even after his break out year either. Hopefully we will trade him sometime before next season, though I doubt that will happen. For what its worth, I like the role he has now off the bench, and his shot can still be sweet, though much more inconsistant. If he can pick up that consistancy and regain his I.Q., he will be a good bench player - I just hope we don't resign him after next season.

    Luther Head - Pretty much what I think everyone was expecting of him when we signed him. He is what, 6'2, 6'3? He should not be playing SG ever. The problem is, he isn't a PG either. Even when he goes on his scoring spurts, he is a 6'2 guy trying to guard 6'6 guys. I like him as a spark off the bench, but only in a 5-10 minute role as a PG.

    Earl Watson - I like him a lot as a backup PG. He has been decent as the starter, but if the ultimate goal is a Championship in the future, he is more suitable as a backup. I do think he could be a good role player on a Championship team though. Thats one reason I like the wya Bird has built this team, our role players are all the type of role players you see on Championship teams, but Bird needs to add another star for any of them to make the impact the could. Watson is a solid vet though, I don't know how his future will play out in Indiana as I like to think Price is our second stringer moving forward, but maybe keep him until we can find our permanent solution to the first string PG position.

    Josh McRoberts - I loved the potential that McRoberts showed last year, thats part of the reason I really didn't want to draft Hansbrough, even though I'm a Tar Heel fan. However, I think his potential is fading away. He isn't getting time for a reason, nothing Obie does makes sense anyway, but if AJ Price earned his way into the lineup, something makes me think McRoberts could too if he was doing wel in practice. Regardless of his situation, I love him as a 3rd string PF.

    Solomon Jones - I'm actually really, really happy with Jones as a backup Center to Hibbert. He brings some energy and defense off the bench and has actually been better offensively than I was expecting. Good player to have off the bench, especially at the price we got him at.

    Travis Diener - Wait, he's still on the Pacers? -_0 Whats there to say about Diener, he is solid when he gets time - has hit some big shots with us before, but he is where he belongs. If we were going to have to have a 4th/5th string PG, I can't think of a better player for the job, except for maybe Ed Cota or Sundiatta(sp?) Gaines.

    Coach:

    Jim O'Brien - I hope that everyone understands that when I say this, I mean it, I'm not saying this as a joke or an exaggeration, but I honestly believe that Jim O'Brien is not fit to coach a YMCA team. This guy, is the dumbest coach I have ever seen in my entire life. Keep in mind, I am a 49ers fan and have seen some God awful offensive cordinators come through over the past few years and a Tar Heels fan and suffered through the Doherty years. Jim O'Brien is a moron, thats all there is too it. I think he might have sold his soul to the devil for the ability to manipulate his way into someone giving him a job.

    Three games. Thats all it took. Three games into his 1st year with the Pacers I called that he was a terrible coach. Everyone was bashing me saying I wasn't giving him enough time, but after 3 games I could see that he had no clue what he was doing and was too stubborn to change things. I honestly don't want to get into everything that he does wrong because this whole post would take 10x longer, though if someone would like me to clarify late, just post it and I'll explain in further detail why I think he should be banned from basketball.

    GM:

    Larry Bird - Its funny, I can see the direction that Larry is trying to take the Pacers and I love it, however I think he is going about it in the wrong way. I can tell that Larry knows what it takes to build a Championship team, but I also think he is trying to skip a few steps. Right now, he wants to win and rebuild at the same time. The only way that ever happens is with a lot of luck and I personally don't want to rely on luck, especially with our history with it. Larry has brought in the perfect core for a Championship team. Every Championship team is filled with players like Granger, Rush, Hibbert, Hansbrough, Price, Jones, Jones, and Watson. When I say that, I mean they could all be very valuable to teams who could win Championships. However, Granger is the only star we have right now, and while I think Hibbert and Rush could potentially develop into much better players than they are right now, we don't have a coach that supports that, and even then, we would need another sure fire player to go with Granger.

    I also think Bird is a little too stubborn for his own good. Bird isn't the type of guy to admit when he is wrong, but he should have fired O'Brien a long time ago, I believe the only reason O'Brien is still here is because Bird doesn't want to admit he made a mistake by hiring him. Bird and Carlisle were friends, which makes me wonder why he is hesitant to fire O'Brien, but the truth is, there isn't one good reason to keep him. Maybe O'Brien is blackmailing him? I don't know, but Bird needs to find a coach who knows how to coach.

    Also, I think Bird needs to learn when to sell high. After Dunleavy's career year, I was constantly saying we needed to trade him while his value was high - in fact, most Raptor fans said they would have liked to see a Dunleavy for Bargnani deal, with some of them even saying they'd throw in a 1st. Of course, the next year Dunleavy got hurt and Bargnani broke out into a pretty good player. The point is, Dunleavy should not be considered apart of the core moving forward, even if Bird liked Dunleavy, he should have known this. When you have a player with high value who isn't a good player for a rebuilding process, you need to unload him for pieces for the future. We could have gotten a very good young piece to go with Dunleavy after that year, now we are stuck with him. Murphy is a different case I think, I doubt Murphy's value was ever as high as it is now, which is why Bird needs to look at this team, and pull the trigger on the best deal he can get instead of thinking he's getting shortchanged. I would love to see us get a 1st or Danny Green out of a Cleveland deal, but if the best offer we get is straight expirings, Bird needs to take it. I hope he doesn't try to oversell his players again, which is something I've heard hes done in the past.

    My last beef with Bird is last years draft. Going into the draft, the two positions we needed were a PG and a PF. Like I've said, I love Hansbrough, but last year was possibly the best PG draft ever and this year is one of the best PF drafts ever. It made no sense to draft a PF in a sea of PGs, especially since we are still without a PG and there are no PG prospects outside of the #1 pick in this draft. If we took Lawson or Holiday last year, we would have been able to get a guy like Davis, Favors, Monroe, Cousins, Aldrich, ect. this year. I will take Lawson or Holiday paired with any of those PF's over Hansbrough paired with whatever positon we manage to get this year any day.

    I think Bird has all the know-how on how to build a team, but at the same time I think he is too stubborn to do it the right way. At least in my opinion.

    How I Would Do It:

    As the Coach - Like I said earlier, the first thing I would do is build the offense around Hibbert. Its not often you find a 7'3 Center with the post skills that he has, even if he doesn't lead the team in scoring, he needs to be the #1 option. I would limit Granger to 5 3's a game, unless he was shooting over 50% after the first 5, in which case he could shoot them until he went below 50% - obviously he could shoot open 3's too, but never in the first 5 seconds of the shot clock. If we ran the offense through Hibbert, I think Granger would be much more effective on offense, especially if he is limited in the # of 3's he took. Take tonight for instance, Granger was driving to the hole instead of jacking up 3's. Look at all the FT's he took, then look at the big W next to the game. Granger has the ability to take it to the hole and get to the line, that needs to be his first option if he's ever going to be the leader I think he can be. As for Brandon Rush - I take a few games out of the schedule and try to get Rush to step up. I would take him aside, and say something along the lines of "I want you to score 25 points tonight, I don't care how many shots it takes you to get there, just do it. If you don't you won't play for another 3 games." I realize an offense ran through a player forcing shots like I imagine he would be would probably get us a loss, but I think it would be important for Rush to know he has the ability to take over. I would do that for a few games during the year until he got it and could go on scoring spurts reguraly. Also, I'm sure everyone here will think I'm crazy, but I would want to try Rush at PG for maybe 5 minutes per game. If anyone has noticed, he has the best handles on the team - not the best playmaker, but the best dribbler. He has pulled a few Tinsley's out there as of late. I would love to give him 5 minutes at PG just to see what he could do, because if he could hold down that positon for a few stretches throughout the game, we would have a HUGE defensive advantage. His defense would hinder the other teams PG from starting their offense, especially if we have Granger and Jones on the wings to help defend also. As for Granger, I take him aside and show him clips of Gerald Wallace and ask him to be a team player on offense and defense. I'm not saying he isn't a team player - but right now Granger is playing to maybe 6 tenths of the talent he has. I would ask him to do all the little things I know he is capable of doing. Put those games with the Rush scoring games and have learn other roles. Both of them are do-it-all kind of talents, I would do everything possible to bring out the best in them from all angles, not just focus on one aspect of their game.

    The big thing for me as a coach is size and defense. I believe size and defense wins Championships. I would not want a PG under 6'2, a SG under 6'6, a SF under 6'8, a PF under 6'10, or a Center under 7'0. Ideally they would be an inch or two taller than that though. Thats why I prefer guys like Rush to guys like Kevin Martin. As good of a scorer as Kevin is, I would prefer a defensive menace, I believe the go farther in the long run. Defense wins Championships, I want great defenders.

    As the GM - The whole drafting Hansbrough thing put me in a tough spot of where to go. I feel we are still without a starting PF and PG moving forward, and while I think we found great backups in Price and Hansbrough, I'd much rather have Lawson or Holiday to work with going into a PF heavy draft. Since that isn't possible, my first move would be to pick up a late pick. I don't think Murphy for Z/1st is out of the range of possibility, but if the Cavs are hesitant on that, I would throw in Luther Head to get it done. We shed a little more salary and they would get a temp while their PGs are out, and a player who could be a huge spark and spread the floor for LeBron. This gives us some cap room and another 1st to work with. I would also move Foster to a contender for expirings, which seems reasonable enough.

    Come draft night, lets say we end up with the 5th pick or later - I would honestly probably trade it at this point. For me this draft is Wall and Henry or bust in my book - though Ed Davis really interests me, I don't think he will be ready for a few years. When I say that though, I don't mean I don't think its a good draft, because it is - but it is a PF heavy draft, with most of them being projects. I think we would be better off trying to trade the #5 pick for that guy we need next to Granger. #5 could get us a good player to go with Granger, Hibbert, Rush, ect. I know NJ fans said that if they get Wall they would be up for a #5/Harris swap. I'm not sure if thats the trade I would want, but a Harris/Rush/Granger/Hansbrough/Hibbert core is nice moving forward, especially with Price and the Jones' off the bench. If we could somehow trade Hansbrough and the late Cavs 1st for a starting PF, we would be even more set until we can fill out our bench a little better.

    I don't think theres all that many moves the Pacers can make this year to make a huge change, but if we were going to try, trading the #5 pick would be a start. Outside of the Wall and Henry, I don't see anyone who would be worth it over a guy like Harris. I'm sure some of those potential guys could really blossom and usually I'm all over potential players, but I don't think the Pacers could afford a miss at this stage in the rebuild.

    Scouting:

    Players that I think would be a great fit for the Pacers:

    Raymond Felton - I think he could break out with the Pacers. He reminds me a lot of Chauncy Billups in the sense that I think he will be a late bloomer. He has already shown to be a good defender, good leader, and very clutch - now he just needs to pull them all together. If the Pacers can trade Murphy and Foster for expirings, we might have enough money to make a run at him, though it would be difficult. I think Felton would be the perfect PG for the Pacers moving forward though.

    Ronny Turiaf - The closest thing to Dale Davis that I see in the NBA. I know the Warriors love him, so I don't think it would be easy to get him, not even sure we could, but I think he would be a great fit next to Hibbert. He brings energy, toughness, and defense to the PF positon. Exactly the type of player the Pacers need at the PF spot.

    Danny Green - I would love for us to somehow get him out of the Murphy/Z deal if it happens, but I doubt that he will be a throw in. He is a do-it-all kind of player that I love. Will never be more than a role player, but could be a very good one who will step up big in certain situations and become a fan favorite with his pregame dance.

    Hakim Warrick - I would love to have this guy off the bench for us. Again, another guy who probably isn't attainable, but seems like a good guy for us to have when Granger needs a rest. He is a do-it-all kinda player who would provide a spark along with some highlights.

    Terrence Williams - Definitely not attainable, but definitely a guy that I think would be great for this Pacers team. The Pacers need a guy with some attitude like that, someone who will get under the skin of wing players while Tyler takes care of the post players.

    Players to look at in the draft:

    John Wall - No explanation needed, he will be a star providing he doesn't get injured.

    Evan Turner - Looks like Brandon Roy light. A guy that size with handles like that and who gives it all the whole game is very rare. He is #2 on my board at this point.

    Ed Davis - The guy has so much potential, but will need to bulk up if he ever wants to reach his potential. If he does bulk up, I think he could be a lot like JO was in his prime.

    Greg Monroe - Probably not going to be a great player, but I could see him being a Aldridge type of player in the NBA. Definitely could be a useful starting PF.

    Jarvis Varnado - Could be a great pick late in the 1st round, reminds me of Josh Smith defensively.

    Players to avoid drafting:

    Patrick Patterson - I really don't like undersized guys. He won't be able to outmuscle NBA players like he does in college. He reminds me a lot of Ike Diogu. Not a good defender in college, will be even worse in the NBA.

    Willie Warren - I would probably like him a lot more if he was 2 inches taller, I hate short players though.

    Dexter Pittman - Sorry Pittman, Glen Davis already secured the overweight guy who made it position for the next few years.

    Kyle Singler - Will be in Europe in 4 years. Will probably be a much better player over there anyway, but his game/athleticism won't allow him to succeed in the NBA I don't think.

    Solomon Alabi - Nothing against him, but its hard for young Centers to make it in the NBA. I see a lot of potential there, but I doubt he gets there.










    Thats it haha, sorry for how long it was. I'm going to pursue a career as a writer, so once I get going it tends to go on for a while haha. For any of those who read the whole thing, just message me your adress and I could possibly send over a cookie - though if you actually gave me your adress I would probably just order you 20 pizzas instead(just to warn you 0_0). Hopefully this will bring up good conversations like it has on other boards, thanks for taking the time to read it for those who did and if you didn't I understand haha. I left out a few things suprisingly, but I have to work tomorrow so I figured I'd cut a few corners haha.

  • #2
    Re: So, its about that time of year...

    Why do people make bold statements about Hansbrough when he hasn't even had one game with the leash off yet? I see a lot of it here and still can't understand it, We have no idea what he can or can't do yet!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: So, its about that time of year...

      You lost me when you said that Granger could be a 'top-7' player in
      the NBA. The only way that could happen is for alot of other guys
      to retire all at once.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: So, its about that time of year...

        Hansbrough has yet to play a full speed game with no time restrictions due to health issues in anything close to what our preferred lineups would be. It is a huge disservice to him, and to Bird for drafting him, to judge him in any way. We likely will not even have much to judge him on until next year when he returns to health and is able to be conditioned at an NBA level and then meshes with another completely unknown lineup and hopefully another entire coaching staff utilizes him in a different way.

        Remarkably, your prescribed treatment of Rush is at least similar to the early treatment of Rush by O'B, which set him back approximately a year, and is why he is just now beginning to become effective offensively. I do agree with you that Rush has the tools and athleticism to be an elite player in the league. I actually believe he is more athletic than Granger, but Rush has personality issues that are impeding his development, and that was exacerbated by O'B.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: So, its about that time of year...

          Originally posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
          Ronny Turiaf - The closest thing to Dale Davis that I see in the NBA.
          Ummmm...What to say? What to sayyy?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: So, its about that time of year...

            Might disagree on some details here and there, but I think overall there's a lot of valid points raised here.

            I particularly like your section on Bird. The whole thing with his approach to trading and his assessment of talent and value relative to the team's direction is interesting. I, too, have had concerns regarding this. I agree regarding Murphleavy and the trade timing thing. Arguably, those BOTH of them could easily have been moved by now. Troy due to his career year last year, although he's maintained pretty well and is that much closer to his contract ending I suppose.

            Tyler=New Foster. I like that comparison. Although Tyler has a great chance to contribute more on offense. Still, I also forsee him as a bench contributor, not a full fledged starting PF.

            Rush? Best thing to do is moderate to McKey-like expectations due to his mental/attitude approach on court. If he manages to exceed that, then we'll be very pleased.

            Edit: Oh yeah. Turiaf to DD comparison. I don't think so. That's not to say he might not have some value to us, but I just don't see RT as a full-time banger/enforcer. He can block shots and he hustles, but I don't see the toughness, strenght, and intimidation.
            I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

            -Emiliano Zapata

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: So, its about that time of year...

              Good write-up. Personally, I was intrigued by your assessement of Brandon Rush, and the recommendation to put him at PG. I could see it. IMHO, I always thought that Rush set-up Roy in the post better THAN ANYONE on the team. He recoginzes when to feed to him and when not. One play (I think it was the Hornerts game) that comes to mind that made me mad when Brandon elected to not pass it to Roy and passed to Granger only to have Granger turn it over trying to feed Roy although Rush didn't. Now, I will disagree with him not being a playmaker. I believe he makes solid decisions on offense, but it's not a playmaker in the sense that he can breakdown the D with dribble moves (but he could work on them during the offseason). Interesting stat about Rush, he averages 1.0 TPG while averagin 27.4 MPG.

              Your thoughts about Bird was spot-on. I trust Bird, but he can be stubborn at times. I'm going to wait until Tyler is 100% healthy, before I'll pass judgement on him. The boy hasn't been healthy for a while now.

              Future Starting 5....

              Rush
              D. Jones
              Granger
              Hansbrough
              Hibbert

              Hmmm....could it work?
              Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 01-23-2010, 05:43 PM.


              Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: So, its about that time of year...

                Originally posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
                Players:

                Danny Granger - If you had asked me last year whether or not I thought Danny could be a franchise player, I would have told you "yes". Now, I'm not so sure he will be, though I still think he can be. For whatever reason, I don't see the same fire behind Granger that I saw last year - now he's been settling for too many jumpshots/3's and avoiding contact. I think if Danny could develop the mentality of Gerald Wallace that he could be a top 7 player in the NBA. Granger has a unique gift in the sense that he could do it all. However, it seems we now get a Danny that focus' primarily on offense - which we do need from him, but I want to see the defensive/rebounding menace side of Danny more than we do. He only seems to bring that out against the LeBron's and Pierce's of the NBA. I want to see Granger step up and be "that guy" but he needs to stop taking so many 3's and give 100% on defense and rebounding all the time. I don't care if his scoring drops, look what Wallace has done in Charlotte - Granger is far more talented and could make a much bigger impact than that, especially since we have a better supporting cast.


                Ronny Turiaf - The closest thing to Dale Davis that I see in the NBA. I know the Warriors love him, so I don't think it would be easy to get him, not even sure we could, but I think he would be a great fit next to Hibbert. He brings energy, toughness, and defense to the PF positon. Exactly the type of player the Pacers need at the PF spot.
                Asking Granger to play as you described would result in seeing him in sitting at the end of the bench wearing street clothes a lot more often.

                And Turiaf is nothing like Dale Davis. Not even close. He's an energy/hustle guy who blocks a few shots but rebounds poorly and doesn't really defend the paint that well. He can't defend his man in the post nearly as well as Davis did and he's more injury prone. He's not a starting level player. He'll get a few dunks, block a few shots, give some hustle and is a likeable guy, but that's about it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: So, its about that time of year...

                  Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
                  Might disagree on some details here and there, but I think overall there's a lot of valid points raised here.

                  I particularly like your section on Bird. The whole thing with his approach to trading and his assessment of talent and value relative to the team's direction is interesting. I, too, have had concerns regarding this. I agree regarding Murphleavy and the trade timing thing. Arguably, those BOTH of them could easily have been moved by now. Troy due to his career year last year, although he's maintained pretty well and is that much closer to his contract ending I suppose.

                  Tyler=New Foster. I like that comparison. Although Tyler has a great chance to contribute more on offense. Still, I also forsee him as a bench contributor, not a full fledged starting PF.

                  Rush? Best thing to do is moderate to McKey-like expectations due to his mental/attitude approach on court. If he manages to exceed that, then we'll be very pleased.

                  Edit: Oh yeah. Turiaf to DD comparison. I don't think so. That's not to say he might not have some value to us, but I just don't see RT as a full-time banger/enforcer. He can block shots and he hustles, but I don't see the toughness, strenght, and intimidation.
                  I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to have Ronny Turiaf beside Hibbert. I've seen him play, and let me tell you...he does remind of Dale Davis at times.


                  Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: So, its about that time of year...

                    Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
                    I don't know about you, but I would LOVE to have Ronny Turiaf beside Hibbert. I've seen him play, and let me tell you...he does remind of Dale Davis at times.
                    Those times you might see him look like Davis come in short bursts. He's an energy guy. He's not a 30+ minute starter like Davis was in his prime.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: So, its about that time of year...

                      I'd be surprised if BR could play PG. Doesn't have the handles to bring it up under heavy pressure, which is exactly what he'd get constantly for that reason. He looks like a classic wing 2/3 to me, but I agree he's a good post feeder.
                      I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                      -Emiliano Zapata

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: So, its about that time of year...

                        Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
                        I'd be surprised if BR could play PG. Doesn't have the handles to bring it up under heavy pressure, which is exactly what he'd get constantly for that reason. He looks like a classic wing 2/3 to me, but I agree he's a good post feeder.
                        I'll try anything once if it means a bigger advantage in the long run. According to www.82games.com, he committed 15 "bad passes" and 23 "ball handling turnovers". I thought the same thing about Joe Johnson, and Phoenix used to run him at the PG in sprurts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he widely considered a "PG" before signing with ATL, and his 1st few years?


                        Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: So, its about that time of year...

                          Originally posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
                          Good write-up. Personally, I was intrigued by your assessement of Brandon Rush, and the recommendation to put him at PG. I could see it. IMHO, I always thought that Rush set-up Roy in the post better THAN ANYONE on the team. He recoginzes when to feed to him and when not. One play (I think it was the Hornerts game) that comes to mind that made me mad when Brandon elected to not pass it to Roy and passed to Granger only to have Granger turn it over trying to feed Roy although Rush didn't. Now, I will disagree with him not being a playmaker. I believe he makes solid decisions on offense, but it's not a playmaker in the sense that he can breakdown the D with dribble moves (but he could work on them during the offseason).
                          I pointed that out in that night's game thread but in my mind it was a failure to recognize (on Danny's part) that the pass was more risk than worth. Rush choose wisely, Danny did not. Of the players I watch closely, Roy and Danny are not selfish in that they're willing to pass, but they often times pick the wrong spots to do it in. I've seen Roy make bad passes to cutters more times than I can count and Danny has simply thrown a couple balls over Roy's head when he's in the post. I'm not saying they shouldn't pass or can't pass, I just think they shouldn't be taking so much risk when the potential payoff isn't that great.

                          Just like great batters don't always go for the homerun, Danny and Roy should try to make the smart play as opposed to the sensational one.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: So, its about that time of year...

                            oh it was so long!
                            I CANT SPELL!

                            THERE ARE THOSE THAT HAVE AND THOSE THAT WILL!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: So, its about that time of year...

                              Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
                              I pointed that out in that night's game thread but in my mind it was a failure to recognize (on Danny's part) that the pass was more risk than worth. Rush choose wisely, Danny did not. Of the players I watch closely, Roy and Danny are not selfish in that they're willing to pass, but they often times pick the wrong spots to do it in. I've seen Roy make bad passes to cutters more times than I can count and Danny has simply thrown a couple balls over Roy's head when he's in the post. I'm not saying they shouldn't pass or can't pass, I just think they shouldn't be taking so much risk when the potential payoff isn't that great.

                              Just like great batters don't always go for the homerun, Danny and Roy should try to make the smart play as opposed to the sensational one.
                              What game was that anyway? I do remember you making that comment, and I was thinking the same exact thing when it happened.


                              Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

                              Comment

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