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Thread: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

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    Default Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    I don't have the full record in front of me or anything, so take this with a grain of salt, but it seemed like trouble found Calipari's guys more than once in Memphis, and now of course he's at Kentucky with Wall et al, and at both stops, as I understand it, a good chunk of the talent he recruits is through his connection to "Worldwide Wes."

    Is Wall one of the Wes guys?

    Just going by recent history of Calipari guys, doesn't that have to raise some concerns about him?

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Don't see why. That's the college game's problem.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    My guess is yes. World Wide Wes really tends to find the best talent..and filter them to Calipari.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Most likely. It doesn't really matter for the NBA though. It's the college game that's getting screwed over because of Wes.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    Don't see why. That's the college game's problem.
    i agree. i have no problem with what these kids do with regards to college recruitment. For these top talent kids college is a one year stop gap enforced by NBA rules anyway, and its kind of a joke.

    am i really going to judge a kid for cheating on his SATs or taking gifts/money because theyre pretty much forced to deal with this whole institution of the NCAA for one year when they have no desire to do it?

    If memory serves me right the problems that arose with Calipari's Memphis guys had nothign to do with issues of real moral fiber or poor judgment on the level of violence, theft or drugs. Take Derrick Rose for example. by all accounts he is a good, humble kid who has no bad history besides allegations of cheating on the SATs.

    If he werent forced to go to college, he wouldnt have to cheat on the SATs. Getting a certain score has no bearing on NBA eligibility, but he can't play in college unless he does, which would hurt his NBA stock. I mean if the guy just can't get a high enough score what is he supposed to do? And can anyone really blame him for having no respect for college or NCAA rules?

    im sure lots of people disagree with me and think theres somethign very morally wrong with what he did. Its just my opinion, and if I were the Bulls GM and knew before the draft 100% that he cheated on his SATs, I woudlnt think twice about it and draft him so quick.

    taking money is the same deal to me.

    the one and done rule is a joke. it hurts both the professional and college game imo.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    that being said I know Wes is a problem even for college kids that arent of the one and done type, and yes I do think there is a difference in that regard. If youre gonna commit to the college system I think you should respect the rules. Wes is definitely a problem for the college game. I just don't think it has any real bearing on how these kids should be looked at at the next level.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    I was thinking of things like Shawne Williams' issues (drugs; hangs with bad people) and Tyreke Evans' issues (driving while a passenger kills a guy).

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I was thinking of things like Shawne Williams' issues (drugs; hangs with bad people) and Tyreke Evans' issues (driving while a passenger kills a guy).
    ah. well those would definitely show a lack of moral character.

    i guess I didn't associate such things with Wes or Coach Cal. I would hope those things aren't attributable to them.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    I still don't understand who this Wes guy is. Is he some powerbroker for the top college recruits?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    i agree. i have no problem with what these kids do with regards to college recruitment. For these top talent kids college is a one year stop gap enforced by NBA rules anyway, and its kind of a joke.

    am i really going to judge a kid for cheating on his SATs or taking gifts/money because theyre pretty much forced to deal with this whole institution of the NCAA for one year when they have no desire to do it?

    If memory serves me right the problems that arose with Calipari's Memphis guys had nothign to do with issues of real moral fiber or poor judgment on the level of violence, theft or drugs. Take Derrick Rose for example. by all accounts he is a good, humble kid who has no bad history besides allegations of cheating on the SATs.

    If he werent forced to go to college, he wouldnt have to cheat on the SATs. Getting a certain score has no bearing on NBA eligibility, but he can't play in college unless he does, which would hurt his NBA stock. I mean if the guy just can't get a high enough score what is he supposed to do? And can anyone really blame him for having no respect for college or NCAA rules?

    im sure lots of people disagree with me and think theres somethign very morally wrong with what he did. Its just my opinion, and if I were the Bulls GM and knew before the draft 100% that he cheated on his SATs, I woudlnt think twice about it and draft him so quick.

    taking money is the same deal to me.

    the one and done rule is a joke. it hurts both the professional and college game imo.
    I really don't understand this argument. In every profession, you pay dues that are not really related to the final job. Do you really think your doctor gave a **** about his undergraduate language classes? Your surgeon his OB/GYN rotation? Your criminal defense lawyer his wills and trusts course?

    Even if you think the 1 year requirement is a silly and hollow ritual, it is not asking too much for wanna be stars to perform their due diligence with integrity.

    Calipari is bad news. Its cliche, but where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And there has always been billows around his programs.

    I still can't help but like John Wall though. Calipari and Wes are not deal breakers, but they require additional scrutiny.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
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    I really don't understand this argument. In every profession, you pay dues that are not really related to the final job. Do you really think your doctor gave a **** about his undergraduate language classes? Your surgeon his OB/GYN rotation? Your criminal defense lawyer his wills and trusts course?

    Even if you think the 1 year requirement is a silly and hollow ritual, it is not asking too much for wanna be stars to perform their due diligence with integrity.

    Calipari is bad news. Its cliche, but where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And there has always been billows around his programs.

    I still can't help but like John Wall though. Calipari and Wes are not deal breakers, but they require additional scrutiny.
    to me the two situations are completely distinguishable...

    i don't think undergraduate school being a prerequisite for medical school or law school being a prerequisite for becoming an attorney, or a residency being a prerequisite for performing surgery is unreasonable. the exact classes you take may be wholly unrelated to your future, but the process as a whole is not.

    also, those professions are ones where just throwing unqualified people out there can have harmful affects on others in society. I couldn't care less if a high school kid came out too early. But I care if my lawyer didn't go to law school. I don't mind holding those types of professionals to a higher standard.

    there is zero reason for these kids to go to college. for teh majority of future nba players, there is a point, to showcase your talent or to improve your game, but for the Rose's and Mayo's and Wall's etc. there is no point.

    you have a valid point in that its probably not asking for too much for them to complete their dues, as hollow as it may be, with diligence and respect but I'm just saying I can't really blame them for not doing so, and if I were looking to draft someone, whether or not they did would have no affect whatsoever. Also, I don't like that this hollow ritual is actually hurting the NBA and college game IMO.

    Just my opinion, my personal tastes, but I think the college game should be about supporting the guys who really want to be there, and the guys you watch grow for 3-4 years, and the teams you watch grow together. I loved the Florida team with Noah, Horford and Brewer. I love watching guys like Reddick and Ammo and Hansbrough and Steph Curry. Now people I'm sure disagree and loved watching Durant/Beasley/Rose play for one year and destroy the competition (and theres nothing wrong with that) but IMO i'd rather be watchin those guys in the NBA and giving them that extra year of real development.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Wall got in trouble for breaking and entering sometime last year:
    http://ballhype.com/story/top_high_s..._charged_with/

    There are some red flags, but it's not hard to believe an 18 year old kid with that much talent, hype, and $$$ coming his way; is not going to make his fair share of mistakes.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
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    I really don't understand this argument. In every profession, you pay dues that are not really related to the final job. Do you really think your doctor gave a **** about his undergraduate language classes? Your surgeon his OB/GYN rotation? Your criminal defense lawyer his wills and trusts course?

    Even if you think the 1 year requirement is a silly and hollow ritual, it is not asking too much for wanna be stars to perform their due diligence with integrity.

    Calipari is bad news. Its cliche, but where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And there has always been billows around his programs.

    I still can't help but like John Wall though. Calipari and Wes are not deal breakers, but they require additional scrutiny.
    Agreed.

    I will never, ever, ever, see cheating as justified. That is just me, however.

    As far as paying dues, I agree with that as well. Do you really think any of us interns enjoy doing this? I get that it is a different situation, (as most interns jobs are somehow related to the career they hope to go in to) but I think it is crazy to say "It is ok to cheat, college is just a stop gap anyways".

    I do not think we should force anyone to go to college for four years as long as they understand the risk of coming out early, but it does scare me that so money young people are so quick to jump at a big payday (I know I would, I can not fault them) and then having nothing to fall back on.

    Just me .02

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    ah. well those would definitely show a lack of moral character.

    i guess I didn't associate such things with Wes or Coach Cal. I would hope those things aren't attributable to them.
    You don't associate a "lack of moral character" with Calipari?

    Really??

    Hello?



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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    You don't associate a "lack of moral character" with Calipari?

    Really??

    Hello?



    I CAN'T wait for UK's probation that's coming in the next two to three years. They wanted to hook up with the Supermodel so bad that they didn't care that she had AIDS and syphillus, and they got her pregnant, too. But it was worth it... right?
    i meant that i dont attribute those specific acts with coach cal. (drugs/shootings) this is why i said i dont attribute "such things" with Coach Cal. those things i attribute to the player himself and not any influence coach cal had.

    its quite clear that both coach cal and worldwide wes engage in less than moral activity.

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    i meant that i dont attribute those specific acts with coach cal. (drugs/shootings) this is why i said i dont attribute "such things" with Coach Cal. those things i attribute to the player himself and not any influence coach cal had.

    its quite clear that both coach cal and worldwide wes engage in less than moral activity.
    Okay, fair enough. I see your distinction. And that post probably reads more "nasty" than I intended so I hope you didn't take it the wrong way.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    no problem I didn't take it that way...

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    Default Re: Is John Wall one of "Worldwide Wes" 's guys?

    I'm pretty sure I read that he is. I think Wes and Calipari have a close relationship as well and that their connection had a lot to do with Rose and Evans going to Memphis.

    My guess is, but not established, that Wes is helping to drive the freshman class at KY and possibly the amount of showcasing that going to Cousins and Bledsoe while returning star Patterson has been downplayed by the offense quite a bit.

    It might go something like this, which would fit what Wes does - I get these kids to sign with you, they want to get to the NBA soon, you feature them and make them a priority, give them an "NBA friendly" style of play, and everyone wins.

    Wes makes money somehow, but mostly he just negotiates out situations that make everyone happy. Not calling that good or bad, definitely a tinge shady it seems, but I'm not sure that he's as much about payoffs as he is about finding people that can use each other and getting them to appreciate that fact. Making sure you "qualify for college" or get your messes cleaned up, that's more a Wes thing I think, and Calipari is a guy that has proven to Wes that he's willing to make that happen in order to get guys there. This allows Wes to give the players everything they want that they can reasonably get (risky to give a kid like that keys to a Ferrari, people will notice).


    I don't think his efforts are really in the spirit of collegiate competition, but I do think there are worse people trying worse methods to impact college basketball. He's more like a player "activist" that helps guide them into a successful NBA career, and appears to do the same in other areas he gets involved in.

    People want things, Wes helps get those things done by working with people that can do them, and bartering for those deals with yet other deals with yet other contacts. He's made himself powerful by leveraging the power of others. It's pretty smart actually...with a healthy dash of amoral.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-22-2010 at 01:27 PM.

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