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Thread: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

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    Default Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Let me start this off by saying this is in no way an attempt to bash Tyler but more so to get an understanding of why


    I know we all have talked about Jim O'brien's notoriously inconsistent playing rotation. I think we can all agree that he has experimented more than a mad scientist. Last night , again, he went with a new starting line up that was not due to injury.

    Why did Tyler start?

    I have a real problem with this. I would like to know what Tyler has done to earna starting spot, if even for one game, but more importantly what has he done to earn consistent playing time?

    What is he giving us that Mc Bob can't? I guarantee you if Mc Bob got the same playing time as Tyler, then his stats would be equal to if not greater than Tyler. Tyler says he is not concerned with his shooting? huh? Well I am. His shoting is atrocious and while it "might come around" that remains to be seen.

    Mc Bob, on the other hand does not shot everytime he touches the ball. Is a better rebounder and does not get stuffed under the rim.

    I thought playing time was EARNED, and I dont feel like Tyler has earned the right to receive more playing time than Mc Bob.

    Again this is not a "bash Tyler thread" but really about what does Obie see in him? Please dont say the tired out "hustle and energy". Mc Bob, Hibbert, and D Jones, all bring the same "hustle and energy"

    So the question is : Do you think that Pacer front office or Bird is pushing Obie to play Tyler? I am sure Birds ego is desperatley trying to make Tyler into a star so he looks like a draft genius.

    I just struggle to find a solid reason why Tyler has earned playing time over Mc Bob


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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    yes i think Bird has a big word in Tyler playing so much and starting, seeing as how JOB just said he doesn't like starting rooks he would rather go with vets. he said that in the interview before the Toronto game when asked about AJ starting.

    http://my.nba.com/cms/107168/price_g..._to_talk_about


    after reading again, maybe he meant having a vet start at the point.

    but still i think Bird is pushing for Tyler.

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    pretty sure tyler is in here for our long term goal.
    is mcbob? maybe, maybe not.

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    I dont think management is pushing JOB to play anyone. We have a $8.5 million PG sitting at the end of the bench. If management wanted to force JOB to play someone it would be Ford to get his stock him and ship him out of Indy. To me it seems that JOB is playing the young guys more now (Price, Hibbert, and Hansbrough).

    Hansbrough does play hard though. He gets out there and puts his body to the ropes, as does McBOB. I honestly dont know why JOB has benched McRoberts but then again I dont understand why JOB does about 75% of the things he does
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Tyler was likely going to be the 1st big off the bench. When Jim decided at the last hour to pull Roy (for matchups), Tyler was next in line and (in theory) a better matchup than Roy.

    I don't read much into it.

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I dont think management is pushing JOB to play anyone. We have a $8.5 million PG sitting at the end of the bench. If management wanted to force JOB to play someone it would be Ford to get his stock him and ship him out of Indy. To me it seems that JOB is playing the young guys more now (Price, Hibbert, and Hansbrough).

    Hansbrough does play hard though. He gets out there and puts his body to the ropes, as does McBOB. I honestly dont know why JOB has benched McRoberts but then again I dont understand why JOB does about 75% of the things he does
    Everyone in the NBA knows about TJ Ford. He's a veteran and has recently played and started. He's played enough to diminish concerns about his health. If anything, sitting him will allow his legend to grow and maybe get a nibble that way.

    You play rooks and young guys (and vets coming off injuries) to showcase them. You don't need to showcase players that have been starting and playing... If you decide they are a poor fit for your team then you can just bench them and tell prospective teams they were a poor fit for your offense/defense.
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    I think Tyler started the game because he is the best defensive PF in the team and JOB was trying to "match up with the other team"

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    I think of all the young players that maybe just maybe managment might be having to persuade O'Brien to play - Tyler is not one of them. Roy, maybe, Rush maybe, Price maybe, but not Tyler.

    Jim has played Tyler as many minutes as the doctors and Tyler's health will allow.

    Comparing Tyler and Josh is an insult to Tyler. Tyler does everything better - Only thing where maybe they are equal or Josh is better is passing.

    And no, McBob, Roy and D.Jones do not bring the same hustle and energy. How many times do they knock down opposing players, how many times do they get under the skin of the opposing players. Tyler has a real skill of effort and playing hard every second, he is physical, aggressive - opponents are growing to dislike him and they have slowly started complaining about Tyler to the media.

    McBob would probably not make the roster of 20-25 NBA teams IMO. Tyler would make every NBA team roster and would be if healthy in probably 26 or 27 of regular rotations.

    IMO if Tyler has not had the shin injury (therefore not missed training camp and preseason) and then not had the ear infection (just when he was starting to play really well) he would be averaging around 30 minutes a game for the Pacers.

    Compare Tyler to someone else besides Josh because that is an unfair comparison. Sort of like comparing Tyler to Dirk
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-14-2010 at 12:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    I don't have a lot of time but I will fire off a few brief thoughts here.

    There is the possibilty that Bird has said that he would like Tyler to get as many min. as possible without dictating playing time. But I doubt it is dictated.

    Tyler is just a better player than McRoberts, that is not a slap at McBob btw as I think he is getting the shaft here as well. But while they both have similar games they are physically very differant.

    Tyler is a brute. Players hit the floor when they play vs. him and that is something that we haven't had on this team since..... well we all know who I'm talking about so there is no need to mention Dale Davis by name.

    He is a scorer a far far far better than advertised rebounder and defender.

    He is a good solid passer and up until recently had become somewhat reliable as a mid range shooter.

    However Josh is a high flyer and can defend the rim, a skill that JOB just obviously does not place at a high value. Josh is also a supreme passer, I mean that the guy drops dimes like he grew up watching Mark Jackson.

    Since pre-season he has added a little to the offensive arsenal and while his dunks were out of this world to watch I want to point out that not only were they entertaining he set those up. What I mean by that is he saw the back door was availble, found the seam and called the play.

    What I'm saying is both should be seeing time on the floor. Tyler more so but Josh needs to be in there as well. If your asking me who should set so that they have a chance it wouldn't take long for you to guess who I would say.


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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by HanSolo View Post
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    pretty sure tyler is in here for our long term goal.
    is mcbob? maybe, maybe not.


    Good point, but then why sign Josh to a 2 year guaranteed deal?
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Tyler was likely going to be the 1st big off the bench. When Jim decided at the last hour to pull Roy (for matchups), Tyler was next in line and (in theory) a better matchup than Roy.

    I don't read much into it.
    Duke

    I understand that, but what has Tyler done to earn consistent playing time? Is he that much more productive than McBob? I know his starting last night was an aberation, but his consistent playing time is not

    Do you think he has earned time?
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    As for Hansbrough starting yesterday night?

    I'm guessing that the reason why Hansbrough started at center yesterday was because of matchup concerns with Stat and Frye. If Foster was available to play yesterday...I wouldn't have been surprised if Foster was in to Start against Stat
    ....with Murphy guarding Frye. But since it's been made clear that JO'B would prefer not to matchup unathletic Big Men ( like Hibbert and Murphy ) against more Atheletic and mobile Big Men ( like Stat and Bosh..in the past ) and Foster wasn't available....JO'B decided to go with the closest thing to Foster that we have now....Hansbrough. IMHO...on the spectrum of Big Men that we have....Hansbrough is inbetween the type of Players that Foster and Murphy are.....energy/hustle Big Man that can rebound/"mix it up inside" and can score....basically a similar type of Player to Foster but one that is a better scorer.

    As to why Hansbrough has been getting a lot of "burn" under JO'B?

    At the start of the season....I suspect it's a combination of Bird / FO pushing him to give him more minutes cuz they feel he needs to develop as soon as possible with JO'Bs preference to have as many Offensive scoring options on the floor. In order of preference, I'd suspect that if JO'B had to rank his Big Men in order of who he'd put on the floor....it'd be Murphy, Foster ( being a different case cuz he's a veteran ), Hibbert, Hansbrough, Solo then McRoberts. The reason Hansbrough plays ahead of Solo or McRoberts is cuz he clearly is a much better scorer....whereas Foster plays ahead of Hansbrough due to JO'Bs preference to have a solid veteran presense on the floor ( along with his defense, of course ). I'd guess that JO'B was really impressed by Hansbrough's scoring in the Summer League and ( likely with some prodding by the FO ) decided to give him some minutes to see how he would fit. Fortunately, Hansbrough was able to step up and show that he can be helpful on both ends of the floor. But I'd suspect that once Foster comes back from injury, that Hansbrough's minutes will be reduced where he would be the 4th or maybe even the 5th ( depending on Granger playing some backup PF minutes ) Big Man in the PF/C rotation.
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    McRoberts is the more polished player compared to Hansbrough at this point. They both bring unique skills to the court. O'B (and more likely Bird) values Tyler getting to the line and bringing highly physical play more than having a player who facilitates offensive flow and provides better overall defense without dominating the ball and being a black hole.

    McRoberts needs to be traded to just about any other team in the league who values basketball IQ, hustle, and hops and has a coach who teaches fundamentals. He is truly wasted here, and it is a shame.

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I think Tyler started the game because he is the best defensive PF in the team and JOB was trying to "match up with the other team"
    If that is the case, then why did he only play 10 minutes. had 3 pts on 1-5 shooting, and didnt play the entire second half
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think of all the young players that maybe just maybe managment might be having to persuade O'Brien to play - Tyler is not one of them. Roy, maybe, Rush maybe, Price maybe, but not Tyler.

    Jim has played Tyler as many minutes as the doctors and Tyler's health will allow.

    Comparing Tyler and Josh is an insult to Tyler. Tyler does everything better -




    Only thing where maybe they are equal or Josh is better is passing.

    And no, McBob, Roy and D.Jones do not bring the same hustle and energy.

    I respectfuly disagree here. I think D Jones brings as much hustle as anyone on the team

    How many times do they knock down opposing players, how many times do they get under the skin of the opposing players.




    Tyler has a real skill of effort and playing hard every second, he is physical, aggressive



    - opponents are growing to dislike him and they have slowly started complaining about Tyler to the media.

    McBob would probably not make the roster of 20-25 NBA teams IMO. Tyler would make every NBA team roster and would be if healthy in probably 26 or 27 of regular rotations.

    IMO if Tyler has not had the shin injury (therefore not missed training camp and preseason) and then not had the ear infection (just when he was starting to play really well) he would be averaging around 30 minutes a game for the Pacers.

    Compare Tyler to someone else besides Josh because that is an unfair comparison. Sort of like comparing Tyler to Dirk


    True, but this is because he plays like a football player on a basketball court.

    Buck, Ia am sorry my friend but that is pure spoeculation. What or how could you back that up?


    If he has a"skill set" why does he constantly get his shot blocked, and is shooting such a putrid percentage?
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    If that is the case, then why did he only play 10 minutes. had 3 pts on 1-5 shooting, and didnt play the entire second half
    I really wouldn't read too much into this ( at least compared to other games ). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the lingering effects of his ear infection and dizziness was affecting him out there. Although it's easy to default to the "JO'B would prefer to play Murphy over a rookie" excuse.....this line of reasoning isn't entirely implausible given many of the timelines that we have been given ( being out for up to another 2 weeks per Mike Wells ) by different sources since Hansbrough has been out with this ear infection.
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I really wouldn't read too much into this ( at least compared to other games ). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the lingering effects of his ear infection and dizziness was affecting him out there. Although it's easy to default to the "JO'B would prefer to play Murphy over a rookie" excuse.....this line of reasoning isn't entirely implausible given many of the timelines that we have been given ( being out for up to another 2 weeks per Mike Wells ) by different sources since Hansbrough has been out with this ear infection.
    In fairness I will say Tyler is a much better defender and gets to the line much more than I thought he would

    Now if he would just stop shooting contested 15-20fters and learn a few ball/head fakes it would be gravy
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    If that is the case, then why did he only play 10 minutes. had 3 pts on 1-5 shooting, and didnt play the entire second half
    like somebody already said before, his minutes are limited to 15min per game I think JOB was using him to play D in the 1st quarter and also to try to get the phoenix suns bigs especially Amare in foul trouble to then bring Roy in the second quarter.

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    like somebody already said before, his minutes are limited to 15min per game I think JOB was using him to play D in the 1st quarter and also to try to get the phoenix suns bigs especially Amare in foul trouble to then bring Roy in the second quarter.
    i could be wrong man, but I dont think he has a minute limitation. I think he didnt play anymore because Obie thought he had a better option
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Good post and something to ponder. I personally feel Tyler is a better option for us than Mcbob. In the long and short term, I feel Tyler is a better player than Mcbob. Given his potential and over all play this year. I agree about the lineup, not sure he should be starting, but who knows with JOB.

    Tyler is a rookie, and I think with the minutes he has been given this year, and with the late start, he is doing just fine. I personally like his jump shot. I think he needs to just continue to work on his mid-range game and maybe in a few years be able to take some threes, but in the long term. He can't dominate in post like in college, so more jumpers will be required. He certainly can improve in the his moves in the post as well. He has a knack for getting contact and should improve his technique for drawing fouls. And I think he will do all those things in the summer, meaning he will be better next year and beyond, again IMO.

    As for his playing time and whether he starts or not, I have know idea what JOB is thinking. But in terms of head to head, Mcbob vs Tyler, I would give the minutes available to Tyler. Sure he makes a ton of mistakes and his shot needs work, but for a rookie he is right on point. He isn't flashy, but strikes me as being more efficient than Mcbob offensively.

    Mcbob is fun to watch, he works his tail off when on the floor. But offensively he usually is only good for an dunks and tip-ins. Now I know he has a shot, have seen him hit some now and then, but he doesn't strike me as someone that will be a scorer. Rebounds are his strong point, he crashes the boards well when he plays. He has great athleticism and can get where he wants to. He can be a good defender and can block shots. Overall he provides a ton of energy and is always fun to watch, but often looks lost in our offense, which isn't the greatest system mind you.

    So head to head, again I would give Tyler the minutes at the 4 spot. The question I have is will Tyler be our starting 4 in the future next to Roy? That I am not so sure of, I see him being more of a 6th man type. But we will have to wait and see. I would like too see us get a player at the 4 who can be force / All Star, command double teams and complement Roy. Only time will tell whether he Tyler can be that guy. IMO, Mcbob is an energy guy who you play 10-15 mins a night. He gets you boards, block shots, and provide a spark. But can he consistently a force? I am sure with minutes he would improve, but don't see him getting any consistent time under JOB.
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    i could be wrong man, but I dont think he has a minute limitation. I think he didnt play anymore because Obie thought he had a better option
    It could be, everybody here knows he loves Murphy and that could be the issue

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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    The answer to the question of whether Bird is pushing JOB to play Tyler? I don't think so, but I don't have insider info like some of you guys.
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    It could be, everybody here knows he loves Murphy and that could be the issue
    Good point
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    i could be wrong man, but I dont think he has a minute limitation. I think he didnt play anymore because Obie thought he had a better option
    Of course, we don't really know one way or another....but given that he's coming back earlier then expected from an ear infection that gave him dizziness....it's not unreasonable to expect the Medical Staff would place a limitation of minutes for the aforementioned reason.

    I'm guessing our poor performance in the first half may have had something to do with it....but I'd err on the likelihood that he was just a little bit dizzy. Someone in the post-game thread mentioned that he looked lost out there.....again, it's possible that it maybe due to "rust" after being out for so long....but "dizziness" would make far more sense.
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    Default Re: Do you think Management is forcing Obie to play Tyler?

    Quote Originally Posted by odeez View Post
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    The answer to the question of whether Bird is pushing JOB to play Tyler? I don't think so, but I don't have insider info like some of you guys.
    lol

    yeah my babies mama's cousins best friend knows one of the players ex wife sister in law

    and they said.....
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