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Thread: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm not really sure if any of this is directed at me or not. If not I apologize for responding.
    I see a lot of what you see, although you use a little hyperbole, which is fine. I see Troy's horrible defense, bad passing, overrated rebounding - I see all that. But he is probably our best three point shooter and mid-range shooter - after Danny. He does space the floor and there is real value in that, he isn't a completely clueless team defender, and he isn't as horible overall as some seem to think

    I'll be happy when his contract his up and he is no longer on the Pacers roster, I never wanted him from the warriors to begin with .

    I will argue against the idea that Murph is the primary reason the pacers lose games

    Really though is anyone in this forum a big fan of Murphy?
    Not really directed your way...although I know your stance.

    The bolded parts I would like to comment on. First, I don't think he's as good at shooting the ball as a healthy Dunleavy. But he is a good shooter. Also, while he does space the floor, he stagnates the offensive flow by floating on the perimeter waiting to be passed the ball. Other perimeter players might be a slash risk or at least move across the court with some velocity. Also, the way JOb focuses on the 3 rather than an inside-out game most of the time, it devalues the spacing Murph is able to bring. As for his ability to be a team defender, that's not real helpful when we have multiple bad defenders in the game. Roy is a weakness there and needs to be the defacto "Team Defender". When you throw Dun in there too, the defense worsens. I have no problem with one weak link, that needs help on D, but we have multiple when Troy, Roy and Dun are in the game at the same time....or even just 2 of them. Troy and Roy guarding the paint is like the fox guarding the hen house. It really is a feast for the opposition.

    ...and this is merely the response to his positive points....

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    No matter how good or bad Murphy plays, he will still be owed the same exact amount of money. So why should that affect how much playing time he gets?
    Because if he doesnt play then its like paying one of your workers for sitting on his butt. He plays so he can somewhat earn his paycheck.

  4. #78
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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho T View Post
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    Because if he doesnt play then its like paying one of your workers for sitting on his butt. He plays so he can somewhat earn his paycheck.
    That didn't stop us from exiling Tinsley or Artest.

    Or even from benching Ford, for that matter.

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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    In addition, essentially throwing away games to play inferior players strictly because of how much they make is a good way to lose fans and thus, more long-term income.

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  8. #80

    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    It does work in the NBA
    For the offense that the other teams run, sure. BUT - Orlando dumps it into Howard. The Suns run the P&R. Cleveland - well, they have LeBron. The Pacers do none of those things.

  9. #81

    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    It just seems as if when Murphy is on the floor we play worse than we do with him off of it. I dont know what the answer is but if you got a a better record with him off the floor then why are you not utilizing that line up. Yes I blame JOB for the lineup decisions, but Murphy also just looks like he gets into modes where he just pulls up and shoots three without looking at how the defense is playing him to take advantages of mismatches or see where other playesr may be positioned to get them involved. I blame Troy for that. I also blame Troy for not moving without the ball. Sure he is slow but his screens off the ball are TERRIBLE. This goes back to making the team better as a whole. He is a big bulky guy and should be able to make a good screen but he doesnt. He roles immediately off his guy and drives to the basket. I dont know if that is to get unto rebound position or just because he is bad at doing it. This is one thing I dont think gets brought up enough is his lack of setting good screens.

  10. #82
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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    What more evidence does anyone need to see to understand that defense is not a priority to O'Brien? It's all about quick scoring and shooting the 3. He could care less about defense or running a more traditional offense even if it does maximize our team and give us the most potential for success... on both sides of the court...

    Why don't we just heave up 3's then run back on defense and ring the perimeter and leave the lane wide open so the other team takes their uncontested bunny layup/dunk and we can get the ball back and go shoot our 3's?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    and the great love between granger and 3 pt. shooting continues. i hope they get married soon and he becomes tired of shooting 3's.

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  14. #84
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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    The score was 100-99, Minny, after time-out, a quick 3 jacked up, game over!!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    NOTE TO O'BRIEN, MORWAY, BIRD, SIMON, WHOEVER!!!

    The fans are speaking. If we came out with the same game plan we came out for the Orlando game then we would have won this game. We hold Orlando to low low points and win with young guys. Two vets come back and we loose a high scorer to the ****ing T-WOLVES!

    It's obvious that they are risking the franchise over this. Murphy should be a guy that you only play late. He always gets too much burn early and his legs are gone by the 4th. Just think, a smart team could put him in at the begging of the 4th and smoke the other team with a few quicck threes. We just don't utilize him in the right way.

    If our fans ran the franchise by general consensus right now we would be doing better.

    Meanin the only solution is the Pacers have to make trades, sit guys, or have Bird coach and play the players that give us the chance to win.

    I don't know the solution. It's a big mess that could easily be turned around with a change of game planning/player rotations. I really believe that is the difference right now.

    Run the offense through Roy, no quick shots, no threes, (unless they are WIDE open, and I prefer Rush shooting the fading wide open 3 in the 4th more than I do any Pacer at this point.)

    McRoberts and Hansboro should be splitting all the minutes at PF when Tyler returns. Hibbert should be getting starting minutes every night and should be the center of our offense. Everything goes through the big fella. Foster should be his backup when healthy and shoul dbe a spark on offensive boards.

    We SHOULD NEVER use a small lineup for an extended period of time. SF/SG should be Granger with Rush and Dunleavy gettin backup minutes at SF or playing at SG. If Dunleavy was struggling I wouldn't hesitate to use Head in his place.

    At PG we should be splitting time between Price and Watson and Head should be getting the scrap minutes just for a change of pace offense and we would NEVER have to go small.

    We also should shy away from the three. Play inside/outside game through Hibbert and only take 3s when needed. No run down and jack up a quick 3. If there is a better two point shot it should always be taken first. Driving/shooting 2s gets you to the foul line a lot more, which is why we lost last night.

    It's kind of silly but it's almost like playing NBA live. It's how I win with the Pacers lack of talent. I always try for the 2 and when I get the defense collapsing I dish for the three. Teams are defending the perimeter. When we don't shoot quick threes we have the highest chance to win. Granger needs to shoot more mid range shots.

    Oh I didnt mention Murphy or Ford. Well who knows anymore...
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 01-09-2010 at 03:47 PM.

  16. #86

    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    If you have Granger healthy you do not play through Hibbert. You have Granger setting up Roy but not the other way around. I agree those two are the go to players right now and I would especially love seeing McBob getting minutes mainly because he is a better passer than Troy and much more athletic he is just a worse shooter. But our problem is not the lack of shooters it is the inability to play inside out which is what this team needs. I agree with most of your post though. Many good points. I would just have Granger initiating the offense ONLY and I mean ONLY if he drives and does not just come down the court and jack up the three. He is a much better player than that.

  17. #87

    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    and the great love between granger and 3 pt. shooting continues.
    Trade him while his perceived value is still high.

    Notice I didn't use green.

  18. #88

    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Trade him while his perceived value is still high.

    Notice I didn't use green.
    PacerDude, son of Dueteronomy of Gath. You have been found guilty by the elders of this board, for uttering trade possibilities for Danny Granger, and so are labeled as a BLASPHEMER!!

    [yt]MIaORknS1Dk[/yt]
    Last edited by PaceBalls; 01-09-2010 at 05:10 PM.

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  20. #89

    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    PacerDude, son of Dueteronomy of Gath. You have been found guilty by the elders of this board, for uttering trade possibilities for Danny Granger, and so are labeled as a BLASPHEMER!!

    [yt]MIaORknS1Dk[/yt]
    I've been stoned before.

    But hey, if you want to hang the franchise on a 40% shooter that rarely wanders inside the 3PT arc, well, that's your choice.

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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Also, while he does space the floor, he stagnates the offensive flow by floating on the perimeter waiting to be passed the ball. Other perimeter players might be a slash risk or at least move across the court with some velocity
    Morever, the thing about Murphy as a shooter/scorer is that he's never been a guy you can run plays for or really make the other team have to adjust their strategy to.

    He's basically a guy who you hand the ball to and hope he happens to be hot at the time. You can't run him through screens. You can't really make his guy chase him around the court. You can't run plays for him off the ball. As you say, he's basically a stationary guy.

    In crunch time, that's why he becomes a much easier shooter to guard than a guy like Rip Hamilton or Peja from their primes. That's why it happens so often that he's on fire for much of the first 3 quarters and then isn't heard from again in the 4th. You could run plays for guys like Peja and Hamilton. You could get them open even in crunchtime when the opposing defense would clamp down.

    With Murphy, the other team just finally starts to focus on him and just sticks a man on him and then he's shut out. Just go back and watch the Jazz game from last year when he was 8 for 8 from 3 in the first half and didn't hit another one the rest of the game. That's because the Jazz simply started to guard him.

    Going beyond Murphy, it's areason why HOW you score your points is probably more important than how much you score.

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  23. #91
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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    I've been stoned before.

    But hey, if you want to hang the franchise on a 40% shooter that rarely wanders inside the 3PT arc, well, that's your choice.
    Everyone needs an occasional stoning.

    We're not hanging our franchise on a 40% shooter, we're hanging it on a coach that is ruining our players by NOT instilling good shot selection, teamwork and defense. He's either turning Danny into a chucker or letting him become one. Well coached teams do not take this many bad shots.

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  25. #92
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    Default Re: Pacers @ Timberwolves Post game - 0 minutes for McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Morever, the thing about Murphy as a shooter/scorer is that he's never been a guy you can run plays for or really make the other team have to adjust their strategy to.

    He's basically a guy who you hand the ball to and hope he happens to be hot at the time. You can't run him through screens. You can't really make his guy chase him around the court. You can't run plays for him off the ball. As you say, he's basically a stationary guy.

    In crunch time, that's why he becomes a much easier shooter to guard than a guy like Rip Hamilton or Peja from their primes. That's why it happens so often that he's on fire for much of the first 3 quarters and then isn't heard from again in the 4th. You could run plays for guys like Peja and Hamilton. You could get them open even in crunchtime when the opposing defense would clamp down.

    With Murphy, the other team just finally starts to focus on him and just sticks a man on him and then he's shut out. Just go back and watch the Jazz game from last year when he was 8 for 8 from 3 in the first half and didn't hit another one the rest of the game. That's because the Jazz simply started to guard him.

    Going beyond Murphy, it's areason why HOW you score your points is probably more important than how much you score.
    Oh my. Great post d_c.

    BTW, in another thread I found Troy's quarter by quarter stats. All of his stats fall after the first and they are at their worst in the 4th quarter. These are enormous issues that demonstrate just how damaging he is to a team trying to win games. It is absolutely no wonder we have a far better record with him out.

    BTW, I think Pacer management recognize this completely. I think Troy stays on the court because of money. What do you think? This is such an easy call to make...yet he keeps losing games for us. Honestly, I think they felt the same way about TJ...but they had another fairly expensive vet sitting out (Watson)...so they could justify benching TJ....and perhaps he's less money anyway. We all know they've been trying to deal TJ for years...and apparently benching him is a sign they have given up on it.

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