View Poll Results: Should Larry Bird replace JOB as the pacers coach?

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • yes

    28 43.08%
  • no

    37 56.92%
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 92

Thread: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...ke-bold-action

    Bob Kravitz


    .

    OK, Larry Bird.
    Your mess, your time to clean it up.


    Everybody knows Bird, the Indiana Pacers president, has absolutely no desire to leave his office and coach the motley collection of talent he has cobbled together for this lost 2009-10 season. But he has no real choice, not as his team continues to circle the drain, losing by 20 points, playing with neither pride nor passion.


    Tuesday night against Orlando? Yes, an astonishing aberration, a 97-90 victory that came out of nowhere. A career night for Roy Hibbert, who outplayed All-Star Dwight Howard. A solid two-way effort x from Brandon Rush. A glimpse into what-might-be if only the Pacers came to play every night, as opposed to once every five games.


    It changes nothing.


    Bird needs to fire coach Jim O'Brien now -- even though, truth be told, this isn't completely O'Brien's fault.


    Bird needs to install himself as the coach.


    His mess, his cleanup.


    Larry, bring your ShamWow and some extra bleach. This isn't going to be pleasant.


    What are the alternatives? Owner Herb Simon isn't going to let Bird punt O'Brien, who has another year on his contract, and then hire another coach for big bucks. There's nobody on the coaching staff who is viewed as a workable long-term replacement. And staying with O'Brien now isn't -- or shouldn't -- be an option, not with this team mailing it in eight nights out of 10.


    Maybe it's a cosmetic change, maybe it qualifies as change-for-change's-sake, but something has to be done as this lost season slides into irrelevance.


    This team already has lost by double digits as often as it did all of last season. A 43-point loss at New York? Unforgivable. I don't care if you're undermanned and fatigued. Still, unforgivable.


    Let's see if Larry Legend can inspire Rush to do every night what he did Tuesday night. Let's see if Bird can bring T.J. Ford back from the emotional dead after a second straight season of losing his starting job. Let's see if he can continue to feed Hibbert, who has too often gotten lost in O'Brien's up-tempo offense.



    Let's not hear about Danny Granger's injury, how Troy Murphy and Jeff Foster have been in and out of the lineup, how Mike Dunleavy has struggled to return to form.


    The fact is, the Pacers were 6-12 and strangely listless even when Granger was in the lineup. The eyes don't lie: The Pacers aren't playing with one-third of the energy and passion they displayed the previous two seasons.


    Two weeks ago, Bird said O'Brien was going nowhere and if changes were necessary, he would send away his underachieving players -- which would leave him with a roster of, oh, three guys.


    While that sounds good -- see, Larry is holding the players accountable instead of pulling the plug on the coach!! -- it's unrealistic. You can punt the coach; you can't punt the players.


    Trade them away? Who wants them? Who wants Ford and the $17.million he's owed the next two years? Who wants Dunleavy's knees? Who wants anybody not named Granger?


    At least by shaking things up and making a change, Bird removes O'Brien as an excuse to underachieve.


    Ultimately, I don't know if this team will suddenly find religion and start playing with purpose if Bird takes over, but something has to be done. Because if not, all you're doing it taking the fans' money and entering the John Wall Sweepstakes.


    O'Brien walked into an impossible situation -- think Orlando's Stan Van Gundy made the right call when he turned down the Pacers' job? -- and Bird inherited a dysfunctional mess.


    He inherited a bad situation and did a good job jettisoning Jermaine O'Neal's contract. But there have been too many mistakes during the rebuilding process, too many errors for Simon to ignore as he contemplates Bird's future at season's end.


    The David Harrison selection. The Sarunas Jasikevicius signing. The Travis Diener signing. The empty draft featuring Shawne Williams and James White. The decision to draft Rush. The choice to let Jarrett Jack walk. And so on.


    The long-term plan makes sense: Develop young players and then surround them with expensive free agents in the summer of 2011. Except those young players aren't growing as they should. So either Bird hasn't selected the right players, or his coach hasn't done the job developing them -- which is why the guy who bought the groceries needs to cook the meal.


    If Bird can't turn Rush and Hibbert and the others into players, then it can be concluded that Bird missed on those picks, and he's not the executive you want making the big decisions in the future.


    Tuesday night was fun, an undermanned team overachieving against long odds, holding the Orlando trio of Howard, Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis to 21 points. But it was a Halley's Comet performance. Bird has to save this thing. And, in the process, save himself.



    I agree with Bob on this one.

  2. #2
    Member sportfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,192
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...ke-bold-action

    Bob Kravitz


    .

    OK, Larry Bird.
    Your mess, your time to clean it up.


    Everybody knows Bird, the Indiana Pacers president, has absolutely no desire to leave his office and coach the motley collection of talent he has cobbled together for this lost 2009-10 season. But he has no real choice, not as his team continues to circle the drain, losing by 20 points, playing with neither pride nor passion.


    Tuesday night against Orlando? Yes, an astonishing aberration, a 97-90 victory that came out of nowhere. A career night for Roy Hibbert, who outplayed All-Star Dwight Howard. A solid two-way effort x from Brandon Rush. A glimpse into what-might-be if only the Pacers came to play every night, as opposed to once every five games.

    It changes nothing.


    Bird needs to fire coach Jim O'Brien now -- even though, truth be told, this isn't completely O'Brien's fault.


    Bird needs to install himself as the coach.


    His mess, his cleanup.


    Larry, bring your ShamWow and some extra bleach. This isn't going to be pleasant.


    What are the alternatives? Owner Herb Simon isn't going to let Bird punt O'Brien, who has another year on his contract, and then hire another coach for big bucks. There's nobody on the coaching staff who is viewed as a workable long-term replacement. And staying with O'Brien now isn't -- or shouldn't -- be an option, not with this team mailing it in eight nights out of 10.


    Maybe it's a cosmetic change, maybe it qualifies as change-for-change's-sake, but something has to be done as this lost season slides into irrelevance.


    This team already has lost by double digits as often as it did all of last season. A 43-point loss at New York? Unforgivable. I don't care if you're undermanned and fatigued. Still, unforgivable.


    Let's see if Larry Legend can inspire Rush to do every night what he did Tuesday night. Let's see if Bird can bring T.J. Ford back from the emotional dead after a second straight season of losing his starting job. Let's see if he can continue to feed Hibbert, who has too often gotten lost in O'Brien's up-tempo offense.



    Let's not hear about Danny Granger's injury, how Troy Murphy and Jeff Foster have been in and out of the lineup, how Mike Dunleavy has struggled to return to form.


    The fact is, the Pacers were 6-12 and strangely listless even when Granger was in the lineup. The eyes don't lie: The Pacers aren't playing with one-third of the energy and passion they displayed the previous two seasons.


    Two weeks ago, Bird said O'Brien was going nowhere and if changes were necessary, he would send away his underachieving players -- which would leave him with a roster of, oh, three guys.


    While that sounds good -- see, Larry is holding the players accountable instead of pulling the plug on the coach!! -- it's unrealistic. You can punt the coach; you can't punt the players.


    Trade them away? Who wants them? Who wants Ford and the $17.million he's owed the next two years? Who wants Dunleavy's knees? Who wants anybody not named Granger?


    At least by shaking things up and making a change, Bird removes O'Brien as an excuse to underachieve.


    Ultimately, I don't know if this team will suddenly find religion and start playing with purpose if Bird takes over, but something has to be done. Because if not, all you're doing it taking the fans' money and entering the John Wall Sweepstakes.


    O'Brien walked into an impossible situation -- think Orlando's Stan Van Gundy made the right call when he turned down the Pacers' job? -- and Bird inherited a dysfunctional mess.


    He inherited a bad situation and did a good job jettisoning Jermaine O'Neal's contract. But there have been too many mistakes during the rebuilding process, too many errors for Simon to ignore as he contemplates Bird's future at season's end.


    The David Harrison selection. The Sarunas Jasikevicius signing. The Travis Diener signing. The empty draft featuring Shawne Williams and James White. The decision to draft Rush. The choice to let Jarrett Jack walk. And so on.


    The long-term plan makes sense: Develop young players and then surround them with expensive free agents in the summer of 2011. Except those young players aren't growing as they should. So either Bird hasn't selected the right players, or his coach hasn't done the job developing them -- which is why the guy who bought the groceries needs to cook the meal.


    If Bird can't turn Rush and Hibbert and the others into players, then it can be concluded that Bird missed on those picks, and he's not the executive you want making the big decisions in the future.


    Tuesday night was fun, an undermanned team overachieving against long odds, holding the Orlando trio of Howard, Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis to 21 points. But it was a Halley's Comet performance. Bird has to save this thing. And, in the process, save himself.


    I agree with Bob on this one.
    how is he praising rush and calling him a busted draft pick all in the same article??? give rush a chance he's only in his 2nd year. and at this point i don't think a coaching change would help too much. but i agree jim needs to go........NOW!!!!!
    Last edited by sportfireman; 01-06-2010 at 09:49 AM.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    684

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    He makes some good points here, but Kravitz also tries (once again) to play the "hindsight genius" with things like the David Harrison pick (wasn't he at the end of the 1st round; expecting a franchise player there?) or Sarunas not panning out (other teams were quite interested in him as well), which is why I absolutely can't stand him. What about getting Granger and Hibbert with mid-1st round picks? AJ Price could also turn into a steal. There are major things Bird needs to sort out, which includes the coaching and underachieving situation, but there have been some very positive moves by Bird as well, especially regarding cleaning out the behavior problem players.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to IndyPacer For This Useful Post:


  5. #4

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    The irony of Sarunas, as I see it, is he would have fit into JOB's system extremely well. Up tempo, no apparent organization, 3 point shots and a tall active inside player is what SJ needed for success. He just didn't have it under Carlisle.

  6. #5
    Member nerveghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    300

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    This is what bugs me about the article - from what I hear and see, Bird appears to have some real back problems that would not suit the lifestyle of an NBA coach. I would like to know if A) that is the case, and B) if Kravitz knows this and called him out anyway to coach.

  7. #6
    Member Speed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Brownsburg
    Posts
    8,555

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Yesthecabbageis couldn't bring the ball up the court under pressure and couldn't guard anyone, sorry, but that was a miss. Not a club altering one, but still a miss.

    Bird hasn't been perfect, but I think all of the salary cap crap was not his doing or that's my impression. That is the thing they are still paying for, that and the other thing (not mentioning it) is the reason for all of the problems they have now.

    Bird made mistakes, but not big ones. And he's made some very nice moves as well, imo.

  8. #7
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    It looks to me like Kravitz wrote this a couple days ago, then Orlando happened. Oops.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  9. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  10. #8
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    I've voted no for replacing O'Brien.

    I don't think he's a bad coach. I think he's stubborn. (Okay, his stubbornness can make him bad.)

    But, with last night's game providing some hope, I'm thinking that JOB may finally get it: that Roy is in fact a game changer, that he needs to move toward more of a halfcourt offense, that the personnel that is bringing him more defense and more wins needs to stay out on the floor.

    If JOB can get over this stubborn streak and turn over a new leaf, then I am willing to see him stay on as coach.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 01-06-2010 at 09:04 AM.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  11. #9
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    13,373
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Yeah, this article was written around Sunday night, early to mid yesterday. I was forewarned about this article.

    Kravitz only shows up to a few games a season and is never at any practices. He sees the stat lines and reads what Mike Wells writes in his Insider Blogs.

    Shame on you, Bob. Way to be a journalist.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to duke dynamite For This Useful Post:


  13. #10
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,244

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've voted no for replacing O'Brien.

    I don't think he's a bad coach. I think he's stubborn. (Okay, his stubbornness can make him bad.)

    But, with last night's game providing some hope, I'm thinking that JOB may finally get it: that Roy is in fact a game changer, that he needs to move toward more of a halfcourt offense, that the personnel is bringing him more defense and more wins needs to stay out on the floor.

    If JOB can get over this stubborn streak and turn over a new leaf, then I am willing to see him stay on as coach.
    It's just a temporary thing. He will put Murphy back into big minutes just as soon as he can... and he will run home to his uptempo offense and defensive lip service at the same time. Unless Bird forces him to go this direction, we've already been down this road before. We know how the story ends.

    I'm not sure I want him replaced though. He never should've started the season, but now that he has, I think we should let him help in the lottery sweepstakes. My concern is, we've had too many lost seasons in a row where we should've done that (played for the lottery and player development). Instead we've tried to overachieve our way into the playoffs (of a weak conference) to the point we've hurt ourselves in the long term more than helped and ultimately put ourselves in this position where the Pacers could end up in another city/state.

    If we need ticket sales to start heading the other direction then either O'Brien needs his hand forced to go away from his preferred offense and defense (and players) or else we need a coaching change just to give some red meat to the masses. As well as signal to all of Pacerdom that the status quo was not an acceptable product.

    I do think the diehards will understand a youth movement and even a lottery run with the light at the end of the tunnel of both. I think it's underestimating them to not believe that. But I don't know if the franchise can withstand another lost season in the midst of the current franchise negotiations and current economic climate.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  14. #11
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,244

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Oh... and under no circumstances should O'Brien remain the coach one day past the final day of the season....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  15. #12
    Member owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,297

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    I think Bob gets all his ideas from reading PD. I guess that to a certain extent is a complement to the posters here. It would be nice if we read something with more depth and
    presented some idea based on info we cannot readily see.
    I really see little point in dumping OBrien during the season. It would be a waste of money
    and probably the waste of another coach who came in.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to owl For This Useful Post:


  17. #13
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's just a temporary thing. He will put Murphy back into big minutes just as soon as he can... and he will run home to his uptempo offense and defensive lip service at the same time. Unless Bird forces him to go this direction, we've already been down this road before. We know how the story ends.
    I fear the same thing. But I'm hoping against hope.

    I wouldn't have thought he would completely bench TJ, but he did. That gives me a glimmer of hope. (Btw, why does JOB go from starters minutes to complete benching? Does he not have the ability to be moderate? Kinda nutty.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not sure I want him replaced though. He never should've started the season, but now that he has, I think we should let him help in the lottery sweepstakes. My concern is, we've had too many lost seasons in a row where we should've done that (played for the lottery and player development). Instead we've tried to overachieve our way into the playoffs (of a weak conference) to the point we've hurt ourselves in the long term more than helped and ultimately put ourselves in this position where the Pacers could end up in another city/state.
    I think you may be contradicting yourself here. Do you want JOB as coach so we'll continue to tank? Do you want him to develop the young players? (you say he won't).

    One or the other.

    I guess you could be saying: Bird should mandate he plays the youngins, and with JOB as coach we will be sure to tank.

    I think it would be easier to just fire him and have a replacement that is sure to develop young players.

    I'm sticking with my hope that JOB may finally see the light. And in his own intemperate way will go from playing Troy 35 mpg to putting him in street clothes with a dunce cap and choke collar.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 01-06-2010 at 09:06 AM.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  18. #14
    Member owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    4,297

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's just a temporary thing. He will put Murphy back into big minutes just as soon as he can... and he will run home to his uptempo offense and defensive lip service at the same time. Unless Bird forces him to go this direction, we've already been down this road before. We know how the story ends.

    If Murphy comes back to big minutes you can count on the top 5 pick range. Also I wounder if this is approved by Bird to help get that high pick or in order to promote Murphy to other teams in the league.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
    -"-"-

  19. #15
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,096

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Murphy comes back to big minutes you can count on the top 5 pick range. Also I wounder if this is approved by Bird to help get that high pick or in order to promote Murphy to other teams in the league.
    This gets interesting and complex.

    Because it appears that this could be going from the actual negative impact Troy brings to line up to the perhaps bigger psychological impact he makes on several other players.

    It's not a stretch to believe that several players think pretty similarly to the five game win streak club here on the forum. So that means, as soon as Murph gets put in the game, the several players we have from stellar coaching regimes like Duke, NC, Kansas and Georgetown—who all know what good basketball looks like—have the wind taken out of their psychological sails. I know it happens to me, and I'm just watching TV.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  20. #16
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,450

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    2-3 weeks ago I would have said fire JOB and have Bird coach, but now that the season is getting out of hand, even though we are only 3 games out of the playoffs. I say let JOB finish out the year. If Bird has a 3 year plan to shed contracts and bring in a big FA, then honestly the performance of this team is according to plan. You aren't going to lure a Big FA here just with Granger alone, so getting a top 5 pick who can come in and be a difference maker is priority #1 for me. If you get that pick in the upcoming draft then come out next season and really show alot of promise, make the playoffs. You'll get some attention from FA. No big name FA wants to go to a team of losers. So if you are going to pick a year to be absolutely terrible, this is the year to do it in regards to the 3 year plan. I'd so say that picking a good head coach to go along with your top 5 rookie is a good idea too.

  21. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to graphic-er For This Useful Post:


  22. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,761

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyPacer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He makes some good points here, but Kravitz also tries (once again) to play the "hindsight genius" with things like the David Harrison pick (wasn't he at the end of the 1st round; expecting a franchise player there?) or Sarunas not panning out (other teams were quite interested in him as well), which is why I absolutely can't stand him. What about getting Granger and Hibbert with mid-1st round picks? AJ Price could also turn into a steal. There are major things Bird needs to sort out, which includes the coaching and underachieving situation, but there have been some very positive moves by Bird as well, especially regarding cleaning out the behavior problem players.
    With Harrison, I imagine he is talking about not doing their homework in looking at his character, and mental make-up.

    Sarunas may have been looked at by other teams prior to signing with the Pacers, but past that point no one was interested. What teams are clamoring for him now?

  23. #18
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,450

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yeah, this article was written around Sunday night, early to mid yesterday. I was forewarned about this article.

    Kravitz only shows up to a few games a season and is never at any practices. He sees the stat lines and reads what Mike Wells writes in his Insider Blogs.

    Shame on you, Bob. Way to be a journalist.
    This is truth, he admits as much on the Radio when ever anything is said about the Pacers, he is clueless and admits he doesn't really follow the Pacers.

  24. #19
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,450

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    With Harrison, I imagine he is talking about not doing their homework in looking at his character, and mental make-up.
    Yes but that is what you get with a project player at the bottom of the first round. Talented guy who isn't the full package, if he was the full package we would have been drafted earlier.

  25. #20
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,244

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think you may be contradicting yourself here. Do you want JOB as coach so we'll continue to tank? Do you want him to develop the young players? (you say he won't).

    One or the other.
    I don't think O'Brien will develop young players unless forced to. I think he'll run home to his preferred 125-124 basketball attempt just as quickly as he can. And I think that will get us in lottery land. I'm thinking more about next year and a new coach developing the young players.

    Of course if O'Brien makes it to next season then that really will take the wind out of my sails.

    I'm conflicted on the firing him idea. I'm worried that about any replacement coach will be able to do better after a couple of weeks. All of a sudden we'll be in the hunt for the 8th playoff spot.

    I just don't think that is a good place to be in with this team. I could be wrong... maybe with someone else stirring the drink the pieces start fitting and all of a sudden FA upgrades will look like the way to go.

    I'm not totally down on Murphy. I think he does exactly what O'Brien wants. The question is-is that all he can do? The second question is- What does it tell you about O'Brien if Murphy is giving him what he wants on the court?

    It at least tells me all of O'Brien's talk about defense is just that- talk.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  26. #21
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    55
    Posts
    11,804

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    First, I called Bob's paragraph on the Orlando game last night when Duke told me the article was coming. Way to dismiss a data point that doesn't fit into your neatly packaged data there, Bob.

    Bob isn't wrong, he just oversimplifies. I can read comments from any number of uninformed Indy Star readers for that.

    To name Diener as one of Bird's major blunders is pushing it, I think.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BillS For This Useful Post:


  28. #22
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    13,373
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This is truth, he admits as much on the Radio when ever anything is said about the Pacers, he is clueless and admits he doesn't really follow the Pacers.
    That doesn't justify his opinion, though. Even though you admit ignorance still doesn't mean what you say is any more credible.

    This is the time of year where he should be rippin' on the Colts. After that come to a few practices then I may actually buy into what he spoon-feeds the ignorant masses.

  29. #23
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,772

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    With Harrison, I imagine he is talking about not doing their homework in looking at his character, and mental make-up.
    Everybody knew he was something of a bonehead. That's why he was available at 29. This was pre-brawl, and they had just gone to the Conference Finals, largely with a collection of talented boneheads. They took a flyer on the size and talent.

    It's not that they made a mistake in understanding his character and mental make-up. It's that they deluded themselves into thinking that they still had a good locker room, when that probably hadn't been true since 2000.

    Sarunas may have been looked at by other teams prior to signing with the Pacers, but past that point no one was interested. What teams are clamoring for him now?
    Cleveland was sure they had him signed (and were quite disappointed when they lost him), and I believe (but I'm not sure) that Utah had pursued him pretty heavily.

    Of course, this only proves that Bird wasn't the only one who was wrong about Saras.
    Last edited by count55; 01-06-2010 at 10:02 AM.

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to count55 For This Useful Post:


  31. #24
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,772

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    First, I called Bob's paragraph on the Orlando game last night when Duke told me the article was coming. Way to dismiss a data point that doesn't fit into your neatly packaged data there, Bob.

    Bob isn't wrong, he just oversimplifies. I can read comments from any number of uninformed Indy Star readers for that.

    To name Diener as one of Bird's major blunders is pushing it, I think.
    I think if they had a do-over on Diener, they probably would have tried to get the third year to be a team option (or gone, altogether.) However, they basically got their money's worth out of him the first two years.

  32. #25
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,820

    Default Re: Pacers need Bird to take bold action Bob Kravitz

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    First, I called Bob's paragraph on the Orlando game last night when Duke told me the article was coming. Way to dismiss a data point that doesn't fit into your neatly packaged data there, Bob.

    Bob isn't wrong, he just oversimplifies. I can read comments from any number of uninformed Indy Star readers for that.

    To name Diener as one of Bird's major blunders is pushing it, I think.
    Yeah, my thoughts exactly especially about Diener. Seemed like Bob was reaching for concrete Bird mistakes and had to throw Travis in there to try and bolster his point.

    Yeah on Harrison - I thought he was a wacko, but taking him at 29 was a good pick - worth a chance on a big guy who had some athleticism and some skills. So another reach there Bob

  33. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Unclebuck For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Bird Prefers Polish to Potential
    By Mr. Sobchak in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-27-2008, 09:08 AM
  2. IBJ > Pacers' Next Fight? Damage Control
    By ChicagoJ in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 10-10-2006, 03:23 PM
  3. Rosen: Pacers shut up Celtics
    By Will Galen in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-26-2005, 04:59 PM
  4. A fan recaps the season from section 221
    By travmil in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-21-2005, 10:58 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-31-2004, 08:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •