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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

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  • The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

    So, the 2010 D-League showcase is on its 2nd day, making this a good time to resurrect this thread.

    1. Facts:

    The D-League is the NBA official minor league basketball organization, trotting out there 16 teams divided into 2 conferences.

    20 percent of the current crop NBA players had spent time in the D-League at some point of their career. For example, D-League fans know about Pacers' Danthay Jones for a longer time than you.

    Most D-League players aren't very good and the quality of the product on the floor is generally quite bad.

    Gerry McNamara was a famous D-League bust. Chris Andersen, Bobby Simmons, Chuck Hayes, Will Bynum and many others successful D-League stories. Former Notre Dame standout Matt Carroll and former Pacers Courtney Simms were D-League MVPs.

    2. Resources:
    The D-League Official Website

    D-League Stats: DraftExpress
    Basketball-Reference

    Blogs: Ridiculous Upside - where potential is way cooler than reality - is the standard bear of D-League blogs and of mandatory reading for any D-League fan. My man Steve Weinman started a D-League blog, affiliated with the TrueHoop network, called D-League Digest. Steve is a great guy, a brilliant writer, a passionate and knowledgeable fan of the game and an insightful basketball analyst, so make sure to check his stuff. The other D-League material I read comes from the well-known Hardwood Paroxysm.

    3. Where to watch?

    Almost every game via Futurecast. It's free and the streaming quality is decent. Unfortunately their best feature from years past, having the archived games available is gone. I've e-mailed them and was answered that the archived games would be available after the Showcase, so we'll find out soon enough.

    Some Showcase games are being shown live on NBA TV. Generally some play-off games will be there as well.

    Recently (like yesterday) it was announced that VERSUS will air 10 regular season and six playoff games throughout 2010. I'm not sure what VERSUS here, but by the reaction of D-League enthusiasts I guess it's a national tv channel most people have available.

    4. Affiliations

    There are 3 type of affiliations between D-League and NBA franchises. The pure ownership (San Antonio Spurs/Austin Toros; LAL/Los Angeles D-Fenders; OKC Thunder/Tulsa 66ers); a new hybrid affiliation model, where the NBA franchise doesn't own the D-League one but controls (and pays for) the basketball operations (Houston Rockets/Rio Grande Vipers) and the the basic affiliation model (like the Fort Wayne Mad Ants being affiliated with the Pacers, the Pistons and the Bucks).

    Anyway, done the introduction, these are important and agitated days for the D-League. After January 10th, partially guaranteed NBA contracts become fully guaranteed. As teams release their 14th men to save a few bucks, an influx of talent to the D-League is bond to happen. On the other hand, the opened roster spots create opportunities for those who are distinguishing themselves in the D-League - and some guys will join Shavlik Randolph, Chris Hunter, Anthony Tolliver and Sundiata Gaines. Performing well in the Showcase, in front of hundreds of scouts from NBA and European teams, it's a most. I'm watching some of the games and will report my findings in the next days. Not very impressed so far, liked last season crop a bit more.

  • #2
    Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

    With the trade deadline behind, some teams are left with roster spots to fill and/or starting to worry more about future seasons than with the current one: meaning it’s a good moment to give the D-League season a look.

    In fact, the timing is even better considering that… archived games are back! Not all of them yet, but enough to allow one to familiarize with this year’s edition of the NBA developmental league. This is big news, especially for those like me who may like the D-League but not enough to stay up till late night to watch games live. Now there’s material to put this thread back to work. Click here and feast your eyes. A reminder: some games are broadcasted in the US by Versus TV and NBA TV.

    Showcase and history being made


    A few weeks have passed since the 2010 D-League Showcase and the folks in Boise, Idaho have already returned to its normal routine - and considering that in most games there were more people on the court than in the stands it's fair to believe that the readjustment was smooth and pretty quick.

    In spite of not being success in terms of public, the attendance was strong when it comes to VIPs: high ranked officials and scouts from every NBA team, including GMs like Danny Ainge, Daryl Morey, Sam Presti, Larry Riley and RC Bufford and from plenty of European teams, especially from Spain and the top Euroleague clubs.

    Nonetheless, two of the most interesting characters who were present in Boise are D-Leaguers - and though in different capacities, two history-makers:



    For one, Nancy "Lady Magic" Lieberman, HoFer, one of the best and most accomplished college players ever, a pioneer of professional female basketball and a former TV analyst. Ms. Lieberman will take over as the new head-coach for the new Dallas affiliate for the 2010-11 season, based in Frisco, TX (club site) - a team owned by the Mavericks GM Donnie Nelson (son of Don and a very interesting basketball mind) that will follow the same hybrid affiliation model the Rockets/Vipers have. It's a very bold move by Nelson, as Lieberman hasn't a lot of experience in the realm of male basketball (a few games in minor league USBL and in a Lakers Summer League team as a player plus a stint with the Washington Generals) or in coaching (a couple of years with the Detroit Shock at the start of the decade with mixed results and an experience as Martina Navratilova's personal coach back in the 80s). Now she will become the first woman in history to work with NBA players. Hopefully she's successful as that will certainly attract some much needed press coverage to the D-League. With longtime NBA coach and former COY Dell Harris and former dunk contest winner Spud Webb aboard as GM and President of basketball operations, she will certainly have a knowledgeable, reputable and experienced FO supporting her.



    Already competing in the D-League world is Tulsa 66ers rookie Latavious Williams, the last first round pick in this years D-League draft. What makes Williams a notable case amongst his fellow rookies is his status as the first player in D-League history to go straight there from high school. Mildly useful analogy, he's D-League's Brandon Jennings.

    A coveted high-school player (ranked #16 in Rivals.com national rankings), Williams didn't meet the academic requirements to play for the colleges he wanted and after some frustrated attempts to find a spot in an overseas team, he's now playing for the team owned by the OKC Thunder (note: the Thunder won't have any right of preference when Williams decides to enter the NBA draft. Required change in the D-League rules?).

    Williams is a 6'8'' combo forward who will probably end up as a 4 down the road (right now he's a tweener, but he has a good frame to add bulk and is lengthy), with excellent agility and very explosive on the boards. He didn’t do much else in the games featuring the 66ers I've watched, but at least he impressed with the quickness he lifts his feet off the floor and moves around, the long arms and the strong hands. I also saw him dunking hard after a very impressive baseline dropstep and burying a couple of mid-range jumpers with good form more recently, but those are exceptions from a very raw offensive game, where he shows little feeling for the game, inconsistent and anxious screening, tunnel vision when the ball finds the way of his hands and a wild and very high dribble.

    That said, Williams is averaging 6pts and 7 rbs in 19 mpg playing for a team with no shortage of competent bigs (Thunder assignees D.J. White and BJ Mullens have been around; Steven Hill, DeVon Hardin, Chris Richard and Larry Owens are solid players) and considering he’s already 20, it’s as a hustle player and rebounder that he can find a place in the NBA. I predict that someone will believe he may become a new Reggie Evans and pick him in the late 1st/early 2nd as long as red flags don’t emerge from the interview/vetting process .

    Call-ups


    You may have not noticed it, but quite a few D-League players have already their chance of playing in the NBA this season. Eleven, to be exact (Anthony Tolliver was called up by 2 different teams); many of them due to the rash of injuries that affected the league. I believe they’d be far less without the injuries because; from my perspective, this is probably the less talented D-League in the last 3 years. Difficult to identify a handful of guys with the ability to break a NBA rotation and there isn’t a lot in terms of potential either. Anyway, the blessed ones so far were (in order of NBA talent/ability/potential):

    - JamesOn Curry (G) (he of dubious fame) Springfield Armor/LA Clippers, a small and frail combo guard who can shoot the ball and has no other high level talent that I’ve noticed. His stay with the Clippers didn’t last longer than a week. Not a NBA player by any stretch of the imagination. He’s not even good in the D-League, at least in my opinion.

    - Will Conroy (PG), Rio Grande Valley Vipers / Houston Rockets, who benefited from playing for the Rockets affiliated and knowing the system. He’s the D-League career leader in points scored, but his best asset is probably his passing. The fact that he predicates his game on getting into the lane and kicking down but a) lacks speed and quickness b) can’t drive left c) isn’t that big explains why he has been signed and waved by at least 100 teams since entering the pro ranks.

    - Mario West (G/F), Maine Red Claws/Atlanta Hawks, can defend really well on-the-ball - I’ve been aware of this since a couple of years ago when he completely frustrated Kobe Bryant. Unfortunately, I later understood he’s a destructive presence to his team offensively and, while explosive, has a tendency to gain weight. Eventually signed a contract till the end of the season, his 3rd in Atlanta, benefiting from already knowing the team, the system and the coaches. Dominic McGuire kind of player, his ceiling is Desmond Mason or something. Running out of time to get there.

    - Cedric Jackson (G), Erie Bay Hawks/Cleveland Cavaliers, was called up because he was in the Cavaliers training camp, played for a local college and is a hard-working, defensive minded player.

    - Mike Harris (G/F), Rio Grande Valley Vipers/Houston Rocket, is one of the most productive D-League players. He’s one of those guys who’s too small to play as a big in the NBA but lacks the skill-set to play the wing: too slow to be more than a defensive liability, lacks an outside shot, solid but far from spectacular creating his shot (he’s a bit of a bully driving into the basket at once there is a very good finisher due to his bulk). Very good player at lower levels when facing less talented, less athletic and smaller defenders and a guy who won’t embarrass his GM as a 5th wing in the NBA.

    - Garrett Temple (G) , Rio Grande Valley Vipers/Houston Rockets, is a very skinny and lanky guard who impresses me with his defensive prowess. Still figuring out what he can do offensively, seems to struggle using his right hand and there’s t. He’s still a rookie and was a defensive specialist in college (you may remember him as the guy who shut down JJ Redick in his last college game), so maybe there’s hope for him.

    - Cartier Martin (F), Iowa Energy/Golden State Warriors, went through his second stint in the NBA (played 33 games for the Bobcats last season) after being a bust in the Italian league. He’s a well-sized wing with average athleticism who can do lots of things decently but nothing really well. If can get back the shooting accuracy he showed in Kansas, then he’s a secondary wing backup who will play spirited, fundamentally sound basketball and stretch the floor. His first step and dribble drives are good enough for the D-League but don’t work at a higher level.

    - Coby Karl (PG), Idaho Stampede/ Golden State Warriors let me down last season during his stint with DKV Joventut. But he’s incredibly productive in the D-League and is a very gritty, versatile and intelligent player who doesn’t make many bad decisions, passes the ball very well and has good shooting mechanics. A really good pick’n’roll player, who knows how to use screens to make up for his lack of a first step. Karl is also a defensive hindrance, especially when matched up versus quicker guards, but IMO he should be playing at a higher level than the D-League, either as a fringe rotation player in a NBA roster or as a productive member of a solid European club.

    - Chris Hunter (FC), Fort Wayne Mad Ants/ Golden State Warriors, was a very good player for the Mad Ants last season and one of the best D-League bigs. A fringe-rotation big for a NBA team, Hunter runs the floor well, settles screens and provides an explosive dunk here and there (and can also hit the mid-range shot when he’s able to get his feet set). He’s pretty strong attacking the rim after catching the ball on movement, especially in pick’n’roll situations, and when he gets good position he likes to turn to his left shoulder and try a baby-hook with his right hand. Not the greatest touch and not exactly a go-to move at the NBA level. With his good size and decent mobility he should be a better defender and rebounder, but he isn’t, which limits his value. Some well-timed blocks suggest that maybe there’s some untapped potential there.

    - Sundiata Gaines (G), Idaho Stampede/Utah Jazz, can become a quality backup guard if he fixes his shot – because he already does plenty of good things in other aspects of the game. I won’t write much more about him because I don’t want to distract your attention from these 2 videos:



    [insert reactionary and emotional cliché of your liking]

    - A hustle player that can become a quality role-player thanks to his impressive motor, intangibles and all-around game, Anthony Tolliver is the best call-up in terms of current ability. A 24 years old, 6' 9", 242lbs, power forward, Tolliver lacks tremendous athleticism or ideal size – nothing that prevents him from being a physical, hard-nosed and relentless presence on the court. Tolliver was called up by the Blazers and then by the Warriors, which later extended his contract till the end of the season. In college, Tolliver was 30lbs center and a prototypical center, but he has transformed his body and his game and the hard work is starting to pay-off.

    When watching Tolliver the first thing one notices is how active he’s on the court: plays with a good spirit and energy, talks defensively, gets wide and large on screen, dives for balls, makes the hard foul on the open lay-up, etc.

    Offensively, a couple of things one quickly notices is that he’s a very good and willing passer from both posts, throwing the ball to cutters and shooters with great speed and accuracy and runs the floor really, really hard (great fit for running teams). Now, his shot creation skills from the blocks or facing-up are incipient (although he’s no slouch at the rim when he gets there, finishing well with both hands and handles the ball well enough to put some – few in the NBA - slower bigs in trouble. He’s a good ball-handler for his size, but dribbles a little too high and slow to be a menace driving into crowded lanes).

    Defensively he’s very sound, doesn’t bite fakes, does a good job using body leverage defending the post, holding excellent position and always keeping his hands up. He doesn’t make many spectacular plays but he puts those who want to shot over him or go through him in trouble and is always in good position to box them out. His weakness on this side of the court is the lack of lateral quickness – making him less effective versus perimeter forwards who have the ability to go around him. He’ll always struggle against finesse forwards with a quick first-step. He’s also a reliable rebounder, but not exactly a good one: he will throw his body around and gain and protect the balls that fall on his area, but not a leaper that will gather the balls above the rim or out of his area.

    That said, the biggest single factor in Tolliver’s NBA career will be his shooting prowess. He isn’t skilled or athletic enough to make a living as a post player offensively, so he needs to play as a stretch big to justify a regular rotation spot in decent teams. Tolliver is a very late bloomer as a shooter (20 triples during his 4 years college caree) and as of now his ability remains inconsistent – he’s been a solid outside shooter in everywhere he played - Summer League, Europe, D-League – but not in the NBA. In the big league, he shot 22% with the Spurs and isn’t doing much better with the Warriors. His mechanics are a bit weird (little elevation and a very late release point) but solid enough and consistent. So, I think it comes down to this: will Tolliver be able to add value to his contributions by stretching the floor, pulling an opponent big of the lane and offering a new weapon to his scoring arsenal? If he doesn’t, he can always be a James Singleton kind of player and hang around for a few years in the league. But if he’s able to translate the outside shooting he displayed in other venues in the NBA, then there’s no reason why he can’t fill a more demanding role, playing at least at a Brian Cardinal (in his prime)/Ryan Gomes level – and once there Robert Horry is the limit. I confess I like Tolliver since watching him in the ’07 pre-season playing for the Cavs and would like to see him succeed.

    So, that’s it for now. Funny, 3 of the top 5 guys were Warriors call-ups. Sometimes I feel they’re the only team actually scouting the D-League.
    Last edited by cordobes; 02-22-2010, 08:38 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

      Every time I watch NBAtv and they discuss the NBDL they show highlights of Brian Butch out of Wisconsin playing well. As an IU fan I'm interested in the Big 10 more then any other conference normally and it's good to hear he's doing well. Curious if he'll get called up at all.

      On a side note, Nancy Liberman is a pretty attractive coach/commentator for her age.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

        Ah, and there's this:
        Dunk Contest


        The D-League dunk contest has been better than the NBA dunk contest in the last 2 seasons. Proof:



        Wasn't enough to win.


        A weird trade


        The Springfield Armor (the worst team in the D-League with a 5-24 record) traded D-League leading scorer and one of the best players in the league, former Jazz first round pick Morris Almond and forward TJ Cummings, their 3rd leading scorer and best rebounder for Tony Bobbitt and Noel Felix, two role-players from the Maine Red Claws (20-13). This is more or less like the Pacers trading Granger + Hibbert for Luke Walton + DJ Mbenga.

        There aren’t financial implications here and it tanking doesn’t make much sense to D-League teams (or no sense at all), so one probably has to believe Dee Brown’s explanation: chemistry & defence.

        Stats


        In 2 posts at Basketball Prospectus, Kevin Pelton studied “how statistics compiled in the NBA Development League have historically translated to the NBA for players who have been called up or sent down”. Worth a reading (1/2)

        Enough minor league talk for now, later this week I’ll give my opinion on who are the best and worst D-League teams, who should or will be the next call-ups and how the NBA players sent down are looking.

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        • #5
          Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

          I'm just going to start calling you Professor because everytime you post I feel like I get an education.

          Thank you for this.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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          • #6
            Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

            Originally posted by pwee31 View Post
            Every time I watch NBAtv and they discuss the NBDL they show highlights of Brian Butch out of Wisconsin playing well. As an IU fan I'm interested in the Big 10 more then any other conference normally and it's good to hear he's doing well. Curious if he'll get called up at all.
            He was named the D-League All-Star Game MVP.

            Yes, I think there's a solid chance he will eventually earn a call-up. However, I suspect that former Notre Dame and current Fort Wayne Mad Ants Rob Kurz, a more or less similar player, is ahead of him in the pecking order. I'll analyse Butch tomorrow or something, but he needs to hit the squats and the lunges very hard and work on his lateral quickness. At least he needs to get up vertically more quickly than he's able to do now. Good combination of size+shooting+fundamentals+attitude to start with.

            Originally posted by pwee31 View Post
            On a side note, Nancy Liberman is a pretty attractive coach/commentator for her age.
            Yeps.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

              Originally posted by cordobes View Post
              The Springfield Armor (the worst team in the D-League with a 5-24 record) traded D-League leading scorer and one of the best players in the league, former Jazz first round pick Morris Almond and forward TJ Cummings, their 3rd leading scorer and best rebounder for Tony Bobbitt and Noel Felix, two role-players from the Maine Red Claws (20-13). This is more or less like the Pacers trading Granger + Hibbert for Luke Walton + DJ Mbenga.
              another possible explanation is that "value" in the dleague is ephemeral - having the league leading scorer means nothing if you're likely to lose him, either to a nba call-up or to a european league. maybe not right away, but certainly within 1-2 years. the dleague drafts get similarly skewed i think - a delicate balance of ability and likelihood to stay.

              regarding the dleague in general, i'm quite frustrated that the pacers aren't making any use of this resource, at all. i'm pretty sure the pacers have never sent a player to their affiliate, the mad ants. the closest to it is courtney sims, who after being cut by the pacers was signed by the ants (who obtained him through territorial rights, i think). especially with the new hybrid model of ownership, there's almost no downside now to turning your dleague affiliate into your very own farm team. the rockets' use of the vipers, for example, is a fine model.

              yeah, golden state has had quite a lot of success in mining the dleague. part of that has to be due to don nelson's willingness to play his dleague call-ups over his lottery picks or expensive veterans...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                another possible explanation is that "value" in the dleague is ephemeral - having the league leading scorer means nothing if you're likely to lose him, either to a nba call-up or to a european league. maybe not right away, but certainly within 1-2 years. the dleague drafts get similarly skewed i think - a delicate balance of ability and likelihood to stay.
                Yeps, the fact that D-League teams are less able to retain/use talent in the long run it's a factor that makes deals like this less dramatic. However, and this doesn't really affect your point much, teams don't lose the D-League rights to the players who are called-up for the NBA.

                Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                regarding the dleague in general, i'm quite frustrated that the pacers aren't making any use of this resource, at all. i'm pretty sure the pacers have never sent a player to their affiliate, the mad ants. the closest to it is courtney sims, who after being cut by the pacers was signed by the ants (who obtained him through territorial rights, i think). especially with the new hybrid model of ownership, there's almost no downside now to turning your dleague affiliate into your very own farm team. the rockets' use of the vipers, for example, is a fine model.
                Fully agreed. The Rockets have been using the D-League quite well and showing why the cost of a hybrid affiliation - which is more or less half of a veteran minimum salary - may be money well spent.

                I'm not sure that a single affiliation for every NBA team is something we'd like to see as a reality though. Is there enough talent and financial resources to support a 30 teams D-League? I'm not sure, what do you think?

                Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                yeah, golden state has had quite a lot of success in mining the dleague. part of that has to be due to don nelson's willingness to play his dleague call-ups over his lottery picks or expensive veterans...
                Heh, he doesn't actually have a choice, who are the veterans he's sitting out to play the promises? In fact, I was irked with him in their last game when he was playing Devean George at the 4 leaving Tolliver to dry out on the bench. I think that the fact that the Warriors play a less structured brand of basketball allows D-Leaguers to have more of an impact. In any case, they pick the guys who are actually showing ability or promise while others don't.
                ---------

                Three new call-ups today! I knew this was going to heat up.

                The Washington Wizards called up Vipers' Mike Harris, who had already experimented 2 stints with the Rockets, likely as a consequence of Josh Howard's injury. What I wrote about him yesterday still applies: Mike Harris is one of the most productive D-League players. He’s one of those guys who’s too small to play as a big in the NBA but lacks the skill-set to play the wing: too slow to be more than a defensive liability, lacks an outside shot, solid but far from spectacular creating his shot (he’s a bit of a bully driving into the basket at once there is a very good finisher due to his bulk). Very good player at lower levels when facing less talented, less athletic and smaller defenders and a guy who won’t embarrass his GM as a 5th wing in the NBA. In a depleted team like the Wizards, where some Isos and post-ups may be available for him, Harris can do some damage with his scoring.

                Austin Toros' Dwayne Jones is near the Dallas Mavericks . Jones is a well known athletic-but-way-underskilled stiff with almost one hundred NBA games under his belt, and there isn't much to say about him that you probably don't know already. Marquee rebounder with 6 hard fouls attached and a decent rim protector, Jones will help the Mavericks as a reliable 4th big and put up some points after collecting offensive rebounds.

                Finally, in perhaps the most interesting call-up, the OKC Thunder offered a 10-year contract to former Memphis defensive ace Antonio Anderson. Anderson has developed quite a bit in his ball-handling during his D-League stint, it looks to me, but what stands out more about him is his composure and activity on the court. It's obvious he'll never be a good 1on1 player or a shot creator, but if he improve his shooting he can be good NBA role-player. He shows a good understanding of the game, makes the right plays, tries to set up his teammates, plays very tough and rough defensively, flies over the court on transition.He's the kind of player that brings intensity and energy to his team and probably a top-level defender in the NBA. I'm curious to see if the Thunder play him significant minutes and how he does.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                  Thank you for bumping this thread, I really enjoy reading it.

                  I know little to nothing about the D-League, but find it so intriguing that if I lived in Fort Wayne I'd run the definitive FWMA blog.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                    Originally posted by cordobes View Post
                    Fully agreed. The Rockets have been using the D-League quite well and showing why the cost of a hybrid affiliation - which is more or less half of a veteran minimum salary - may be money well spent.

                    I'm not sure that a single affiliation for every NBA team is something we'd like to see as a reality though. Is there enough talent and financial resources to support a 30 teams D-League? I'm not sure, what do you think?
                    i don't follow the dleague enough to venture an opinion, but if you say so i'd take your word for it

                    for the pacers specifically though, the fort wayne mad ants are right there. furthermore, they'd make a good affiliate for both the pacers and pistons. you'd think the pacers would want to snap them up before the pistons do, or vice versa. seems like neither team sees the value in it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                      Originally posted by dcpacersfan View Post
                      I know little to nothing about the D-League, but find it so intriguing that if I lived in Fort Wayne I'd run the definitive FWMA blog.
                      I believe you, but the competition would be stiff: you'd be dealing with the excellence of Potter's New Blog , authored by Jeff Potter who is the owner and team president of the Mad Ants; Buckets and Bottles , kept by a Mad Ants Vice-President and Martz Madness, written by yet another Mad Ants insider, Garrett Martz. And I think there was another blog made by a regular fan last season but I can't find it now. Fort Wayne has excellent blog coverage in the NBA.

                      They're having a rough season though, it seems that Jared Reiner (yet another Mad Antz blogger) was released due to personal reasons and Rob Kurz' injury is worse than expected. They've lost their last 3 games and they now really a lot on guys like Sean Sonderleiter and Oliver Lafayette who are better suited to play off the bench as backups. I think their playoff chances are getting pretty small.

                      I'll write a bigger post later on because there's plenty of material - new call-ups, including one for my favourite D-Leaguer, Othyus Jeffers (finally) and for the promising Reggie Williams; some good games from call-ups/assignees; who could the Pacers pick to fill Diener's roster spot ( Alexander Johnson will probably be my choice); how Thabeet has been doing (not very well) - but for now I just wanted to leave a heads-up: tonight at 8:00 pm ET we'll have two first round picks from last season's draft going at each other: Tulsa's BJ Mullens vs. Dakota's Thabeet. It's live on Futurecast and I expect DJ White to steal the show.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                        Originally posted by cordobes View Post

                        who could the Pacers pick to fill Diener's roster spot ( Alexander Johnson will probably be my choice);

                        Ah, the infamous Alexander Johnson who the Pacers drafted in the 2nd round of 2006 only to trade for James White.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                          Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                          Ah, the infamous Alexander Johnson who the Pacers drafted in the 2nd round of 2006 only to trade for James White.
                          What? But I was told that Bird made a huge mistake in trading away that pick? What is this?!!!



                          On an unrelated note, Cordobes, can you explain why they don't have D-League teams in slightly larger cities? Why Boise and not St. Louis or Kansas City, for example?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                            [QUOTE=rexnom;970034]

                            What? But I was told that Bird made a huge mistake in trading away that pick? What is this?!!!

                            /QUOTE]


                            So you are saying trading Johnson and 2 2nds for White wasn't a mistake? I suppose giving James Flight White a 2 year guaranteed contract for a 2nd round pick wasn't a mistake either when White couldn't even make the roster? I'd ask what NBA team is White playing for these days, but I know the answer.

                            Personally, I'd give Johnson a shot. I'd like to see what Bird saw in him 4 years ago. Maybe he can show he's not another poor pick of Birds or maybe he'll just confirm how I feel about Bird's ability to draft.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The '09/10 D-League thread - version 2.0

                              Originally posted by cordobes View Post
                              who could the Pacers pick to fill Diener's roster spot ( Alexander Johnson will probably be my choice)
                              what do you think of alade aminu as a prospect? i think he would be a good fit at f/c, and young enough to have a future with the team. a bit of a project though.

                              Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post

                              Personally, I'd give Johnson a shot. I'd like to see what Bird saw in him 4 years ago. Maybe he can show he's not another poor pick of Birds or maybe he'll just confirm how I feel about Bird's ability to draft.
                              if i recall correctly, it was a trade for picks. so bird chose white with the miami pick, and very likely it was miami who chose johnson with our pick. since miami went on to trade johnson, they could have been picking for someone else too.

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