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Thread: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

  1. #1

    Default Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    You come to expect the worst with this team. A lack of chemistry, injuries, its all become the same scene for us Pacers fans. We can sit here and dream of scenarios in which the team gets fixed, but the chances are very slim. The really only logical conclusion to an ever changing league is to rebuild, which is a hard concept to accept considering we've been technically rebuilding for several years now.

    Something along the way has fallen of course, and well, completely failed.

    A team is a team for a reason, 5 players play as a unit and each player presents a unique talent that contributes to an overall agenda to score and limit the opposing team from scoring. Different teams have different talents, some score the ball more than others, some defend more than others. The idea is to end the game with more points than the other team, which is something we're not use to seeing.

    When we beat a bad team, we often feel good about the win, look at the positives and try to analyze why we won and how to keep it going. Problem is, when you beat a bad team, you're flaws aren't exactly shining and the opposing team makes you look good. That is why Conseco Fieldhouse is a favorable destination if you're an NBA player on any other team.

    Basically, I have a theory that could lead to a brighter future. Danny is hurt, and the best thing for the team, and him, is for him to remain on the bench. We're not going to win anything this year, and ultimately its the attitude of Larry Bird that hurts us the most, when we play hard down the stretch. Take a chance that a high lottery pick could turn our team around.

    Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy CANNOT be traded. We can fantasize about it all we want to, but no one wants to touch them. I'm sure Golden State laughed their heads off when we took them on. Of course Golden State still sucks so I'm sure they're not doing to much laughing. Murphy will be traded if he proves he can stay healthy and produce, but thats a long shot hypothetical scenario.

    That leaves Jeff Foster and T.J. Ford. Foster makes way to much, and truth be told, he has value to a championship contending team with contracts to match, not looking to rebuild, willing to part with a 2nd round pick and baggage. Foster's allure could come from Portland or San Antonio. Portland could very well be interested with their big man crisis, something that needs to be exploited. Problem is, they don't exactly have contracts matching Foster's, and it'd come down to whether they'd feel comfortable dealing Steve Blake AND a 2nd round pick. It could free up Bayless who has been producing as of late.

    T.J. is even harder to move. Figuring on many different levels, the lack of production, lingering health concerns, T.J. is slightely less than impossible to trade. The only way we'd be able to move him is if some team wants another point guard for insurance during a playoff push, but so unlikely I don't want to waste time talking about it.

    After that you have a plethora of cheap contracts mixed with youth. My plot thickens here. If you want to desperately move T.J. or Jeff, I'd suggest throwing Brandon Rush in with it. While sounding like a silly move, Rush's quality at this point is hardly there, and the only thing that'd make him remotely appealing is that he's still young, and cheap. Could sweeten the pot.

    The eventual idea is that we bench Danny for most of the season, tank it if you will, sit on our fat contracts, but try to move a player or two for some lesser picks. We let Troy, Mike, Jeff, and T.J., run out their contracts after next season. We re-sign Troy, Mike, and Jeff to more reasonable contracts, and we enjoy the services of a lotter pick or two. We're far enough under the cap to search for more talent and not have to settle for bargain players anymore.

    Now, I know I am a bit of a ranter, but I have another point to my whole theory to getting our franchise back on track. FIRE JIM O'BRIEN.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Everyone is pretty much looking to the 2011-2012 season as the year for the Pacers..

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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Summer 2011

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Where do we go from here?
    Seattle... Vancouver... Las Vegas?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    You can call me Taz cinotimz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    While I think Danny should be held out of the games until he is absolutely 100% healthy and am growing fond of the idea of getting a very high draft pick and even a chance at Wall, you arent seriously suggesting that a 100% healthy Danny Granger be benched for the remainder of the season are you?

    C'mon now. Thats a wee bit silly, dont you think?

  7. #6

    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Interesting thread until I got to the next to last paragragh about re-signing Murphy, Dunleavy, and Foster. At that point, you lost me.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Interesting thread until I got to the next to last paragragh about re-signing Murphy, Dunleavy, and Foster. At that point, you lost me.
    If you signed them to the value in which they're at, then you save money and keep rotational players. If you think the Summer of 2011 is going to be the year we sign all kinds of valued players then you're going to be disappointed. Sure, we could get a few mid-level players but no one of stark value is going to sign in Indiana.

    And its true, the best stop for the Pacers would be in another market, sadly. My whole theory on fixing this team isn't necessarily thru the free agent, but thru the draft. We can't fix our team in free agency, no top tier player will sign here. If we're going to get a number 2 to Danny or a number 1 to Danny as the 2, it's going to be in the draft.

  9. #8

    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by cinotimz View Post
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    While I think Danny should be held out of the games until he is absolutely 100% healthy and am growing fond of the idea of getting a very high draft pick and even a chance at Wall, you arent seriously suggesting that a 100% healthy Danny Granger be benched for the remainder of the season are you?

    C'mon now. Thats a wee bit silly, dont you think?
    Well keeping him off the court until he's fully healthy might be the best scenario, but an extreme meassure at some point needs to be looked at. I'm not at all confident that Danny returning would result in to many more wins, but I'm also not confident that Danny's morale is peaking at the moment and wouldn't blame him if we do not show any direction any time soon for wanting to leave. It might be silly to bench him for the rest of the season, but I'm also not very orthodox in my way of thinking. I'd say I'd much rather see the team lose most of the rest of the season and play moderately uninspired basketball (I say moderately because I want to have a tiny bit of success to build on) than say, trying to win games down the stretch because its the Larry Bird thing to do.

    I also feel that Larry Bird has done more harm than good for this franchise and the only good thing he's done as a front office person would be firing Isiah, and that decision was based more out of personal feelings than anything else IMO.

    Larry leaving the team should open the door to looking for new talent, and this whole 'come to Indiana if you have no where else to play and don't want much money' mentality has to stop. Sure, we get a few players that look like steals, but also think in terms of over all lack of talent and see these players making an impact practically by default minutes.

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by se7en View Post
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    I'm not at all confident that Danny returning would result in to many more wins, but I'm also not confident that Danny's morale is peaking at the moment and wouldn't blame him if we do not show any direction any time soon for wanting to leave.
    And you really think sitting him when he is healthy would help his morale and help him to want to stay here?
    BillS

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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    And you really think sitting him when he is healthy would help his morale and help him to want to stay here?
    Open all communications with the Indianapolis Star, anyone?

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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    And you really think sitting him when he is healthy would help his morale and help him to want to stay here?
    I'm not making a 'fix' Danny quota. I'm making a 'fix' our team quota. I'd like to keep Danny in the fold, but a better chance of fixing the team is letting him rest, letting him take the time he needs to get better and try to include him in our plans, i.e. Larry or David having a meeting with Danny and letting him know the situation, the plans, and if he wants out, so be it.

    I'm not above the idea of dealing Danny too, I should say, and the reason for that is simply we're not going to win with our current make up, and while I'd like to have a winning team with Danny included, the current direction built around Danny isn't going to lead us anywhere. If we can fix everything with Danny being on board, great, if not, then do what has to be done, but I'm also acknowledging that it has to be bad for a player like him to be apart of a franchise in complete turmoil.

    You can pick thru what I'm saying over and over and find something you disagree with, I'm just saying what I'm feeling.

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    Da Mouf Squirrelz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by se7en View Post
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    I'm not making a 'fix' Danny quota. I'm making a 'fix' our team quota. I'd like to keep Danny in the fold, but a better chance of fixing the team is letting him rest, letting him take the time he needs to get better and try to include him in our plans, i.e. Larry or David having a meeting with Danny and letting him know the situation, the plans, and if he wants out, so be it.
    Whoa whoa whoa... So not only do you want to completely tank the season, slap every paying Pacer fan in the face... you want to disregard team morale, you also want to sit Danny when he's healthy to tank even more... but on TOP of that, if Danny says he's not down for the molesting that would incur on this team if all of that unfolded upon it, then it's HIS head on the block? I mean I know we're a losing team and all, but this guy cares more about the name on the front of his jersey more than the name on the back. At least last year he did. He can be a leader on a winning team, and I'm all for a high draft pick... but the thought of throwing Danny Granger, our ONLY hope at this point, to the dogs for a measly 25% chance at a number one pick that can hopefully become an impact player in this league is more than ludicrous, it's laughable.

    Yeah, I'd say your thinking is very unorthodox.

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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelz View Post
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    Whoa whoa whoa... So not only do you want to completely tank the season, slap every paying Pacer fan in the face... you want to disregard team morale, you also want to sit Danny when he's healthy to tank even more... but on TOP of that, if Danny says he's not down for the molesting that would incur on this team if all of that unfolded upon it, then it's HIS head on the block? I mean I know we're a losing team and all, but this guy cares more about the name on the front of his jersey more than the name on the back. At least last year he did. He can be a leader on a winning team, and I'm all for a high draft pick... but the thought of throwing Danny Granger, our ONLY hope at this point, to the dogs for a measly 25% chance at a number one pick that can hopefully become an impact player in this league is more than ludicrous, it's laughable.

    Yeah, I'd say your thinking is very unorthodox.
    I don't know how many times I have to say 'until healthy' at the end of every Danny Granger sitting out statement I make before someone finally gets that part.

    A slap to every Pacer fan is watching a team with no hope, no future, and no chemistry play and then reading ad signs and billboards about igniting the passion. Don't talk to me about a 'slap' in our faces. Every other franchise that has gone down hill has done it and the only reason we haven't is we have a self rightious leader in Larry Bird who has a lame duck coach in Jim O'Brien.

    And you took what I said about the meeting completely wrong. (well practically everything but i don't have time to address it all) I said if he wants out based on morale, if he doesn't want to lose anymore. I didn't mean it as in if he wasn't on board with tanking then trade him. And, to be truthful, tanking is what we were on pace to do last season, and the season before, up until we started playing other teams competing for a high lottery pick, and other teams that were already locked into the playoffs, just to make it look like this team was finally identifying itself.

    It takes sacrafice from this point on to t

  17. #14
    Da Mouf Squirrelz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where do we go from here? My thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by se7en View Post
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    I don't know how many times I have to say 'until healthy' at the end of every Danny Granger sitting out statement I make before someone finally gets that part.

    A slap to every Pacer fan is watching a team with no hope, no future, and no chemistry play and then reading ad signs and billboards about igniting the passion. Don't talk to me about a 'slap' in our faces. Every other franchise that has gone down hill has done it and the only reason we haven't is we have a self rightious leader in Larry Bird who has a lame duck coach in Jim O'Brien.

    And you took what I said about the meeting completely wrong. (well practically everything but i don't have time to address it all) I said if he wants out based on morale, if he doesn't want to lose anymore. I didn't mean it as in if he wasn't on board with tanking then trade him. And, to be truthful, tanking is what we were on pace to do last season, and the season before, up until we started playing other teams competing for a high lottery pick, and other teams that were already locked into the playoffs, just to make it look like this team was finally identifying itself.

    It takes sacrafice from this point on to t
    I want to reply but this post really makes no sense. It's all over the map.

    You said if Danny wasn't down for tanking, then he can be traded. It's what you said, I didn't misconstrue it..

    If you're not happy with Danny Granger, one of the proud NBA players in the game right now, then I'm sorry fella, maybe you should watch another team.

    Danny IS the heart and soul of this organization, and like I've said plenty of times in the past, he cares about the name on the front of his jersey way more than the name on the back.

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