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Thread: Who can we realistically get?

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Question Who can we realistically get?

    I'm assuming part of the "3-year plan" is to move the expiring contracts we have next season (Murphy, Ford, and Dunleavy) to a team willing to shed an All-Star to get under the luxury tax.

    Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    It's tricky to answer because you never know who the next team will be that goes into fall of 2010 thinking they'll be a playoff contender only to fall hard on their face like Philly and Washington have this year.

    I guess if you think you can forecast who those teams might be next year, that's a start.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?
    Way, way, to early to even guess. We can't just target any old player. Someone like West of New Orleans might be available, if not him probably someone of his ability.

    It would also depend on where we need help at the time. Say Hands is doing good and we picked up a good PF in the draft. Then it wouldn't make sense to trade for a PF.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    One thing to hope for is New Jersey winning the lottery (after us, of course). If they take John Wall, I'm fairly confident they will look to trade Devin Harris.

    However, they may prefer to trade him for a young guy they like better than one of ours and a quality veteran who plays another position, or they may prefer to try to find a 1 for 1 swap for a player who plays something other than PG. If neither of those pan out, then we could come calling to offer the "get out from under the money" and a young guy and picks option.

    For the time being I'm still for going after Okafor. I think you could get him without giving up a young guy or a pick.

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    We need John Wall. Thesterovic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Caron Butler
    Josh Howard
    Baron Davis
    Chris Kaman
    Andre Igoudala
    Gilbert Arenas (NO)
    Steve Nash
    Rip Hamilton
    Ben Gordon
    Monta Ellis
    Andre Miller/Greg Oden combo
    Andres Nocioni
    Elton Brand
    Antawn Jamison
    David West
    Rajon Rondo


    There are ALOT of exceptions though. I hope to have a real computer handy soon because I have been VERY anxious to make several threads about almost everything. I PD from PS3.

    For example, to take on BDiddys contract, we get a 1st, a 2nd, and Al Thornton as well.

    For example, if we get Brand, we get Speights and Thaddeus.

    OR if we take on Peja Stojakavic, we get David West, Darren Collison, and two future top 3 protected 1sts.

    Or just do straight up trades like West, Rondo, Harris, Ginobli, Parker, Carter, Gasol, or Ellis.

    Most realistically as of now, Ellis, Igoudala, West, G Wallace, Calderon, Battier, and Jamison/Butler package.
    Last edited by Thesterovic; 01-03-2010 at 11:25 PM. Reason: adding
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    Most realistically as of now, Ellis, Igoudala, West, G Wallace, Calderon, Battier, and Jamison/Butler package.
    Man I'd love to have Gerald Wallace on the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I'm assuming part of the "3-year plan" is to move the expiring contracts we have next season (Murphy, Ford, and Dunleavy) to a team willing to shed an All-Star to get under the luxury tax.

    Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?
    You also have to analyze if any of those guys will be resigned. I would say 2 of 3 are gone. More than likely Murphy and Ford. Dunleavy will probably be resigned but more than liely 2-3 yr range.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    I want Dun back.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

    You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

    The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

    All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

    You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

    The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

    All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.
    Wow. I disagree with that.

    There's a big gap between all-star and Troy Murphy, and I think the expiring contracts can at least get you something somewhere in the middle.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Right now, the answer to fixing this team is basically a complete roster overhaul. We've done a good job in improving our image based on good overall character but injuries and a lack of talent of left this team decimated. A good sign of where we could be heading would be the shopping of talented players that could net us draft picks in the later 1st round would be one direction to take. Jeff Foster could definately draw interest from some teams and taking advantage of those competing for a playoff spot but hurting from injuries is one route to deeply consider. Portland might be willing to give up some for Foster, but at the same time as a fan you become to invested in the talent you have and overshoot what you're capable of getting. Foster could net us a pick such as a 2nd rounder and a body to replace him. Not sure how the contracts would match up and how serious of interest Portland would have in Foster, but I'd think he'd fit the bill for what they need which is rebounding.

    I know San Antonio in the past has had interest in Foster, another route. Not saying Jeff is a problematic player I'm just assuming that someone of his abilities would fit in better than say a player needing shots. Plus Jeff's contract is a little big for someone that doesn't play that often and isn't to huge to move I don't think.

    As for Dunleavy and Murphy, well get use to seeing them play here, because up until they're up for free agency, they'll be here, unless of course Murphy stays healthy (haha) and produces like he did last year, then a team might possibly come calling, but that is a huge leap.

    TJ is going to be tough to move. Teams typically don't spend money on players that suck and the only way we can acquire someone for him is if that person sucks worse.

    I'm sure if we shopped the youngsters like Rush, Hibbert, Hans, we could find takers, but what would be the point in sacraficing them? They're our future. Well Hibbert and Hans atleast, for now.
    t
    Its not a good time to be a Pacers fan, but Luther Head just gave my fantasy team a nice boost when I picked him up so I'm not to bad off just yet.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    I want Dun back.
    I did too until about a week ago.
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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I'm assuming part of the "3-year plan" is to move the expiring contracts we have next season (Murphy, Ford, and Dunleavy) to a team willing to shed an All-Star to get under the luxury tax.

    Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?
    I've always assumed the 3 yr plan involving Ford/Foster/MurphLeavy was to simply let 3 of them expire while moving 1 for an Expiring Contract before the 2009-2010 trade deadline. After the 4 of them are off the books, we'd sign a group of solid FA to go with the future core of players. I was never expecting to move all 4 of the 2010-2011 expiring contracts unless we can get a good trade for them....which I doubt will happen with the race for the 2010 FA sweepstakes. If we don't move any of them before the 2009-2010 trade deadline while getting back some expiring contracts, we're only going to get longer term contracts back in return....and unless we get back one that is worth adding to our future core of players beyond the 2011-2012 season, I'd rather let them expire and do what OKC and the Blazers has done....build a good core of young players via the draft then use the Capspace to get involved in acquiring assets via trades.
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-04-2010 at 02:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Wow. I disagree with that.

    There's a big gap between all-star and Troy Murphy, and I think the expiring contracts can at least get you something somewhere in the middle.
    I'd think that we'd be getting overpaid contracts in return for an expiring contract in the 2010-2011 season. I'm thinking along the lines of a SJax or Maggette-like Overpaid contract. It's not that I think that expiring contracts do not have value, I just do not think they have as much value as you think it does. Deals like the Gasol for Kwame's Expiring contract+draft considerations only happens with stupid GMs and occur once in a lifetime.

    I'm just more confident in the "letting them all expire" route then the one involving trading expiring contracts for contracts that I think will likely be overpaid. Having copius amounts of Capspace allows for more flexibility and options to improve then trying to acquire a player who will likely be overpaid.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    IDeals like the Gasol for Kwame's Expiring contract+draft considerations only happens with stupid GMs and occur once in a lifetime.
    Deals like that also happen because one team's owner is willing to pay the luxury tax while another isn't. Gasol would be in Chicago right now if Jerry Reinsdorf was willing to pay the luxury tax.

    The good news for the Pacers is they can "be like the Lakers" if faced with a similar situation because they will be so far under the tax. They can absorb a deal like that. And yeah, it will also take somewhat of a fire sale from another team, but those happen. (FWIW, a losing team that takes on a player and contract like Gasol might not even be the best option. Remember how far Gasol was taking Memphis as the best player: not far at all.)

    Pacers just need to avoid taking any unnecessary contracts between now and summer 2011. Draft well this summer and in 2011 and determine which one of the current young guys are worth keeping (chances are not all of them will be). The roster around 2011-2012 will look dramatically different than it does now.
    Last edited by d_c; 01-04-2010 at 03:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

    You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

    The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

    All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.
    Assuming you are correct, I have no idea on this btw, what do you think then that the plan is? Or do you think that the "plan" really has all just been a smoke and mirrors routine to give us hope and in reality they are hopeing to get lucky via the draft or other?

    Because if what you are saying is true then I really am depressed because we may really be looking at 5 to 10 years of rebuilding and then really only rebuilding to mediocre not contenders.


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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Assuming you are correct, I have no idea on this btw, what do you think then that the plan is? Or do you think that the "plan" really has all just been a smoke and mirrors routine to give us hope and in reality they are hopeing to get lucky via the draft or other?

    Because if what you are saying is true then I really am depressed because we may really be looking at 5 to 10 years of rebuilding and then really only rebuilding to mediocre not contenders.
    I think in the short term (last year, this year) Bird wanted the team to be more competitive than it is. Probably wanted to make a run at a low playoff seed to get some fans back.

    But in the long term, it's all about 2-3 years down the future. Right now, it's just too much money committed to guys of too little impact.

    Right now, it's impossible to predict what particular FA signing or trade they might make, but competently run teams with salary cap flexibility have always been able to make good moves. There are so many things they will be able to do in a couple years that they just can't do right now.

    It's a tough situation right now, but it is what it is. And the reality is that a good portion of this current bunch isn't going to be here in a couple years and certainly isn't going to be here when the team is once again a factor in the eastern conference.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Daniel Gibson seems to be the odd man out for the Cavs. I could see us going after him possibly.
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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
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    Daniel Gibson seems to be the odd man out for the Cavs. I could see us going after him possibly.


    Yeah for the league minimum.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perdu View Post
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    Man I'd love to have Gerald Wallace on the Pacers.
    He would die. He and the court at Conseco Fieldhouse do not get along.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    I want Jarrett Jack. Again. Seriously.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

    You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

    The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

    All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.
    getting at most "a player like murphy" is probably an exaggeration (depending on how highly you rate murphy). but yeah, i agree with the sentiment that you won't get an all-star in his prime for just expiring contracts.

    you can get a flawed player though, and if that player happens to fit well with the rest of your roster then his flaw might not matter as much. the model i have in my mind is the sheed trade that put the pistons over the top in '04. sheed is an excellent player but has his issues, which is why the pistons were able to acquire him for expiring contracts and a mid first round pick.

    we can use another all-star at just about every position, but the glaring hole is at pg. obviously you won't get guys like chris paul or even devin harris for just expiring contracts. in other circumstances, a guy like rondo (poor shooter, suspect attitude) might be a viable trade target, but since he's the celtics only young star, the celtics would probably want more than expiring contracts for him.

    2 possible all-star pg targets: arenas and baron davis. arenas has plenty of negatives - huge contract, injury history, and now possible legal problems. the wiz would probably be more than happy to trade him for our 2011 contracts right now. but then, he's a questionable fit for the team even when healthy, and the recent gun incident makes him an absolute no-no here. so that's a dead end.

    baron davis, due to age, injury history, and contract, might also be obtainable. when motivated, i think he's still an impact player. an interesting question would be whether he would be motivated if traded to the pacers. regardless, he fits the profile of the kind of player we could obtain with our 2011 contracts.

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Right now, it's impossible to predict what particular FA signing or trade they might make, but competently run teams with salary cap flexibility have always been able to make good moves. There are so many things they will be able to do in a couple years that they just can't do right now.
    you won't hear the front office saying this, but this is probably a lot closer to the truth rather than having a firm 2011 plan. new trade opportunities are always cropping up - today's hot prospect might be tomorrow's overpaid contract. financial flexibility is a wonderful thing, but it's also a one-shot thing. once used, it's gone. the key is to be patient and wait for the right fit to come up before pulling the trigger. it's tough to be patient though if a team is losing as badly as the pacers are right now. it would be even tougher if 2011 rolls around without a decent trade or fa target in sight.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    I heard Obie say they can use the money for 2 starters too. I think this is possible. Using Troy as an example isn't good, cuz his numbers are starter level, but the actualized total of his impact is not.

    Ya, you need a 2nd best player, but I think you shoot for that and if not, you upgrade from a bunch of 6th 7th best players to maybe a 3rd and 4th best type. Caron Butler keeps coming to mind. Okafor would be an upgrade as well, more as a solid force in the middle defensively. Antwain Jamison seems possible too.

    The fear is you overpay for a "starter" or two and your back in same boat. Dunleavy and Murphy looked like starters too and they are ..... in the perfect situation. This ain't that.

    At this point, if you can get two really really good starters, I think you can take a nice step forward.

    Let's face it, though, unless they hit the lotto or rob someone blind in a trade, the 3 year plan isn't saying that they'll be contenders, it's saying they'll be in the playoffs. Disheartening yes, but a step forward, imo.

    I think 5-7 years may be more what we are looking at, honestly.

    Alot depends on how much better the existing young guys can improve, if not to stay here, but at least to become valuable assets down the line (ala the Garnett trade).

    I'm not wavering on my support, I never will, unless they leave town (cringe), but I think I need to face it, they are bad team, even when healthy and have one tradeable assets.

    That's not the recipe for a quick turn around, even with expiring contracts. That alone isn't enough.

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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    AK47? We could move Murphy and Ford for him.
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    Default Re: Who can we realistically get?

    Quote Originally Posted by HCPacerIN View Post
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    AK47? We could move Murphy and Ford for him.
    I think AK47 is Utah's Murphy. I could be wrong, but I think he has a huge contract and isn't producing what they expect.

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