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Thread: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I would like to believe that throwing it into Roy would result in a crisp pass to the perimeter with a made 3....or a dunk over David Lee. In fact, I'd advocate trying that over the gar-bage we saw tonight. But the more I've thought about it, I don't think Hibby can remotely guard Lee on the other side. David Lee can drain the 17 footer all night...shooting 80% from the floor if left unguarded...and when Hibby comes out to guard him...then Lee blows by him for an easy bucket or an and-one. I wish it weren't true...but I think the match-up would still favor them on a good day.
    Indiana, as a team, live by and die by the 3 way too much. David Lee is tough assignment for Hibbert, since he can hit the 17 footer forcing him to come out of the paint. Even Shaq/Yao/Howard/Duncan had problems with those type of players in their careers, but that's where you hope your teammates step up to help on D. With Indiana, there is no such second player, so Hibbert is forced to go one-on-one. Against true lowpost centers and with steady minutes, Hibbert is what we need in the post.

  2. #52
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    He could have passed out. And Hibbert only got ten touches, he had 7 assists and zero turnovers..that means he did in fact know what to do with it.

    We should have tried to force NY to play "our game" *which, our game, should be feed Hibby* Instead of trying to run with them..when we played a game last night..

    But no, we go small. The post rotation should have simply been Hibbert/Josh/Solo. I'm sorry, but a Solo/Hibbert front court is better than a Shooting guard/Center front court.
    I agree. And it was the 3rd night of that at least, though with Minny we did have foul problems. I mean Price vs Sam Young the other night even gave up 2 inches. Dahntay guarding Love caught him by surprise at first but ended up with DJ fouled out.

    The frontline is weak now because all of them, especially Roy, are prone to fouling a bit. Even just adding Tyler or Jeff helps that dramatically and let's you avoid going small a lot.

    However the truth is that JOB has always run home to small so having some bigs out only justifies it that much more. If you are already tired and then asked to play against guys bigger, taller and more physical than you it's not going to go well. We saw Luther Head to start the Minny game get his 2 quick fouls because of this.

    It could have been anticipated that once the team wrapped up the win last night they would need some energy tonight.
    Yeah, and long before Minny pulled it back in I thought "NOW you have a situation where you can play Ford, let him do what he likes to do, score just enough to slow the points bleeding AND rest a guy like Watson before the NY game". But apparently a point was being made instead.

    Of course who knows because him sitting completely "gives us the best chance to win". I don't need details, but don't blow smoke up our rear either.

    If you are not happy with TJ's game then fine, but unless he's on double secret probation ala Tinsley you still play him in blowout minutes simply to rest the other guys.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    Yea I agree it must suck being a coach on a bad team manily because the competitor in you wants to win but you have a group of players and they dont mesh well how in the hell can you possibly find a winning combination and generate consistency. I wonder if the coaches at the other crap teams have th same problem or if they just have a very green team so they are not sure what they got.
    On the other teams, their coach don't screw with their confidences and egos like JOB does. With JOB, you could be a starter one game, then a DNP the next. Better yet, have a great game in 25 minutes of PT, then the next game only get 2 minutes. On the other losing teams, they only change their starting 5 and rotations due to injuries. How much want to bet that either D. Jones or Brandon Rush will be the starting SG next game? Some days, I SWEAR JOB does it on purpose, so they don't develop team chemistry over the course of a season.
    Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 01-03-2010 at 10:51 PM.

  4. #54
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    David Lee is insanely overrated around here.

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  6. #55
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Hibbert is better than jhondog28 is crediting him for, but his general view of his game is dead on IMO.

    Hibbert isn't quick, that's a weakness. He's still awkward when taken out of his comfort moves, and that can lead to TOs quickly. He's a great passer but still makes some real duds that lead to easy points.

    OTOH, in just one year we've seen Roy gain several pretty reliable post scoring moves and has been able to run up the points against some decent players. For the few bad passes what we normally see is perhaps the best passing on the team, though Price is quickly showing some strong talent there too.

    He is a weak rebounder, but so was Smits. He's been a better than expected shot blocker and it looks like he's quickly getting comfortable with it.

    I really believe you lean on him much like Smits but that unless the center position in the East gets crazy thin he'll never come close to an all-star game (like Smits). 16-7 with 2-3 APG and 1.5-2 BlkPG, that's pretty solid from a non-AS center.

    Granger is the star, and it's looking like we might draft a 2nd one. Guys like Price, Rush, McRoberts, Hibby and Tyler don't need to be stars if that's the case. They need to be able to fill their role.

    I hate to stir this up, but the one thing I do wish still is that you swap Tyler for Blair to go next to Roy because it solves the rebounding issue and gives some weakside muscle on offense to make teams struggle if they try to go too hard at Roy. Tyler's more a scrappy rebounder than power rebounder, and as nice as McBob is he can't rebound with the skill that Blair shows.

    But other than that tweek the group looks fairly balanced and on track to me. The money and PT spent on the vets is the last remaining hurdle.

  7. #56
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    How many players are in this next draft that more than half of anybody thinks could (or should) be Danny level guys by the time they're in their 4th years?

    If the answer is 5 or less, color me unenthusiastic.

  8. #57
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    How many players are in this next draft that more than half of anybody thinks could (or should) be Danny level guys by the time they're in their 4th years?

    If the answer is 5 or less, color me unenthusiastic.
    We should be in the top 5, so it wouldn't matter.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    They have a rich mans Troy Murphy in Gallinari.

    Ya Can't forget about J.O.B. being a "poor man's" Mike D'Antoni

    LOL

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    Sorry , figured I'd throw that in for truth....
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    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

  10. #59
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.
    Hibbert didn't do much in the Memphis game when Gasol was on the floor

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    We should be in the top 5, so it wouldn't matter.
    Right now we're looking at a range of 3 to 9, and that's if Danny never comes back.

    Since he'll probably be playing in under two weeks, I'm leaning much closer to 9 than 3. Possibly even in our usual 10-13 range.

    If you put a gun to my head, I'd say we'll pick about 9th when all is said and done.

  12. #61

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    Lee in my opinion is better than every guy you just mentioned.

    I like Lee but, lets not get carried away. I'd have a hard time choosing Lee over Jefferson or Lopez.

  13. #62
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Hibbert is better than jhondog28 is crediting him for, but his general view of his game is dead on IMO.

    Hibbert isn't quick, that's a weakness. He's still awkward when taken out of his comfort moves, and that can lead to TOs quickly. He's a great passer but still makes some real duds that lead to easy points.

    OTOH, in just one year we've seen Roy gain several pretty reliable post scoring moves and has been able to run up the points against some decent players. For the few bad passes what we normally see is perhaps the best passing on the team, though Price is quickly showing some strong talent there too.

    He is a weak rebounder, but so was Smits. He's been a better than expected shot blocker and it looks like he's quickly getting comfortable with it.

    I really believe you lean on him much like Smits but that unless the center position in the East gets crazy thin he'll never come close to an all-star game (like Smits). 16-7 with 2-3 APG and 1.5-2 BlkPG, that's pretty solid from a non-AS center.

    Granger is the star, and it's looking like we might draft a 2nd one. Guys like Price, Rush, McRoberts, Hibby and Tyler don't need to be stars if that's the case. They need to be able to fill their role.

    I hate to stir this up, but the one thing I do wish still is that you swap Tyler for Blair to go next to Roy because it solves the rebounding issue and gives some weakside muscle on offense to make teams struggle if they try to go too hard at Roy. Tyler's more a scrappy rebounder than power rebounder, and as nice as McBob is he can't rebound with the skill that Blair shows.

    But other than that tweek the group looks fairly balanced and on track to me. The money and PT spent on the vets is the last remaining hurdle.
    Let's give Tyler this year to find out how the NBA really is. I'm hoping he'll have the same discovery that Hibbert did, and work on some different moves during the offseason. Preferrably, he'll develop a midrange jumper and a post game similar to Karl Malone. Tyler is really strong for a PF...well...he looks like he's very strong anyways.

  14. #63

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    [QUOTE=ksuttonjr76;938401]


    Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside? QUOTE]


    BROOK LOPEZ

  15. #64

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    It is amazing how all of us have different view points of the same player. I think Hibbert is a character guy that shows his emotion more than I actually thought I would have seen from him coming out of college. He gets so pumped up on the bench and seems like a guy fans can get behind. I really like having him on our team. I tend to agree that most of the teams that are in title contention have 1 superstar and average talent surrounding him that raises their levels to way above average. Mo Williams was a pretty good player before he came to Cleveland. Then he became all star status. I think if we can find one star in the draft or through free agency Granger, Hibbert, Dunleavy etc will have vastly improved overall games and then we can at least be looking at top 4 in the East.

  16. #65
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by colts19 View Post
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    It seems strange to me that none of the troy haters have tried to explain why we are giving up all these points and troy is not even playing. I guess maybe its time to realize troy murphy's defense isn't the main problem with this team.

    I think it is time to just blame the coaching staff. We look really bad.
    How about exhaustion after playing I don't know how many games the past 10 days? And, yes, we would have given up even more points with Troy IN the starting lineup I have no shred of doubt about it.

    Troy is ok for us if he would play until about 20 minutes a night. More then that and he becomes a major liability. I like how you coincidentally left out our only win last night. You know the only win in the last 10 games without... you guessed it: Murphy.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I like Lee but, lets not get carried away. I'd have a hard time choosing Lee over Jefferson or Lopez.
    Well to be honest I would rather have Lopez as a Center and Lee as a PF so its kinda apples to oranges, but as overall skill level I have always really like Lee's game. I will re-analyze Lopez next year and see what I think. I dont get to watch him near enough. Jefferson plays on a worst team than Hibbert so its hard for me to judge him also.

  18. #67
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    How many players are in this next draft that more than half of anybody thinks could (or should) be Danny level guys by the time they're in their 4th years?

    If the answer is 5 or less, color me unenthusiastic.
    I was just looking at next years draft. Danny level is a stretch, but I guess it depends on where you rate Danny. I would say from reading the player's reports that as of now there is one superstar, that being John Wall, and 3-5 repeat all stars.

  19. #68
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside?

    BROOK LOPEZ
    Okay, I'll give that one .

  20. #69
    We need John Wall. Thesterovic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Aminu, Favors, Turner, Wall, Patterson, Davis, and Aldrich have superstar potential. But low chance besides Wall.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

  21. #70
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Dunleavy just ain't right.

    I know, there's all this press that he is fine physically, just maybe not conditioned. But he plays like he's protecting himself, like he fears he will get injured again.

    The first play of the game, he dribbled up court and lost it without much pressure. It's just not like him.

    I think he either has another injury or he is still favoring his knee.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  22. #71
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Or he's having personal problems.

    Or he's on painkillers.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  23. #72
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Or he's having personal problems.

    Or he's on painkillers.
    He could merely be favoring the knee because of a fear of reinjury that he just hasn't gotten past mentally. It takes a while to get confidence back after a painful injury... especially true if that injury required surgery and long rehab.

    Maybe there are even some little 'weird' things going on with it that the doctor's say are to be expected but has him worried (or maybe he hasn't brought them to the doctor for fear of what they'd say). ... a pop/click here.... some swelling at night.... differences in strength or stability...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  24. #73
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    I didn't watch the 1st 3 QTRs and barely paid attention to the 4th ( since we were down by 40 ) but did we really play Small-Warriors-ball where we had 4 PG/SG/SF on the floor with 1 true BigMan on the floor for the majority of the game? Please don't say we did.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  25. #74
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Or he's having personal problems.

    Or he's on painkillers.
    Or he's playing drunk.

  26. #75
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Now come on guys... If any of you are actually being SERIOUS in insinuating ANY of our players are under the influence of drugs or alcohol during a game is uncalled for....


    While sometimes I wonder WTF?!?! myself , not only with players and JOB sometimes, but ... lol I SERIOUSLY DOUBT ANY Pacers personel are f'd up on dope or hooch ..
    Last edited by Kemo; 01-04-2010 at 04:15 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

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