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Thread: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    Ok here is the problem. Our players were gassed I will give you that. But NYs bigs absolutely manhandled Hibbert. Our team had to adapt to what NY was doing. Hibbert is not quick nor athletic enough to take their bigs. Coach D knew we were going to try and run the plays through Hibbert. He collapsed both Lee and Gallinari on him and Hibbert couldnt do anything. He is an average to barely above average center. I know some posters love Hibbert, but to me that says more to how actually bad we are than anything else. Hibbert on most teams would be like a Dampier without the rebounding. On this team he is the focus. I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I call it like I see it and what I see is a young player who relies on pure emotion to have a good game and when he gets taken by more athletic guys he just folds.
    He did have 7 assists, so I can't complain. I still believe he's the key for Indiana once Granger comes back.

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  3. #27

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoney2584 View Post
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    You gotta give Hibbert the customary "three-year big man development" plan. His offense is showing a lot of promise, and he is surely playing in an offensive system that is not suited for his strengths to shine through. He'll pan out better than "average," not worried about that at all. The fact that he cares as much as he does and seems to have such a good work ethic to compliment that positive energy, is more than enough for me currently. All of our young guys have me intrigued in some way. It's not like we're going to be good this year, we know that by now. Let's just let the bright spots give us hope for the future. I'll form my definitive opinion on this team after this summer when the direction is more clear, the way this year is going we really have no idea what our team may even look like for next season, give it some time. I'm not condoning losing, but i'm not blind enough to miss the positives in our young core. Look out for AJ if we ever get a decent coach.
    I never did question his work ethic or desire to become a good player. He may well develop into a good player, but his weaknesses will keep him from developing into anything more than a Dampier. He has very slow foot speed. Once he gets stopped he loses confidence and loses his coordination and tends to travel a ton. Without good perimiter defenders he is a foul away from going to the bench for tons of minutes. He has to play in a half court style. He is not a very good rebounder for his heigth. Not to mention with more and more 7 footers coming into the league he will need to develop things he just cannot do. Such has lateral quickness and leaping ability to become successful.

  4. #28

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    He could have passed out. And Hibbert only got ten touches, he had 7 assists and zero turnovers..that means he did in fact know what to do with it.

    We should have tried to force NY to play "our game" *which, our game, should be feed Hibby* Instead of trying to run with them..when we played a game last night..

    But no, we go small. The post rotation should have simply been Hibbert/Josh/Solo. I'm sorry, but a Solo/Hibbert front court is better than a Shooting guard/Center front court.
    We dont have the heigth to rebound the ball. When your 7 footer is not a good rebounder it is hard to slow the other team down. They grab the rebound and run. You want to play half court with Hibbert as the focus against David Lee? That to me should not be the game plan. Lee would have demolished Hibbert in the paint. He may be shorter but is stronger and a better athlete. If we went half court they would have immediatley targeted Hibbert in the paint and taken him out of the game with fouls.

  5. #29

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Listen I like Hibbert but I am not as high on him as most people are on this board. To me this team is so bad that he looks so much better than he actually is.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Here is a note from rotoworld, fantasy website.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NBA&id=1153


    Nate Robinson-G-Knicks Jan. 3 - 9:13 pm et

    Nate Robinson followed his 41-point performance on Friday with a 2-of-11 shooting dud, going for six points, six rebounds, and three assists in 22 minutes as the Knicks destroyed the Pacers on Sunday.
    The sad part for Nate's owners is that he may have gotten as much run as he did only because the Knicks carried a massive 48-point lead at one point, but we're not going to judge him until they play a real NBA team. What is certain is that Friday did not mark the beginning of the Lil' Him era just yet.

    Ouch!

  7. #31
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    I never did question his work ethic or desire to become a good player. He may well develop into a good player, but his weaknesses will keep him from developing into anything more than a Dampier. He has very slow foot speed. Once he gets stopped he loses confidence and loses his coordination and tends to travel a ton. Without good perimiter defenders he is a foul away from going to the bench for tons of minutes. He has to play in a half court style. He is not a very good rebounder for his heigth. Not to mention with more and more 7 footers coming into the league he will need to develop things he just cannot do. Such has lateral quickness and leaping ability to become successful.
    Man, do you make mostly negative comments? It seems like every post I read of yours is never positive. Patrick Ewing, Yao Ming, Dikemebe Mutombo, Rik Smits, and Kevin McHale had good to great careers as centers, but they're nothing what I would consider "fleet of foot". Also, Hibbert has all the makings of being a great center for Indiana if JOB runs some of the offense through him. Some 2nd year numbers for current centers....

    Roy Hibbert: 10.5 PPG, 6 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
    Yao Ming: 17.5 PPG, 9.0 RPG, and 1.90 BPG
    Al Horford: 11.5 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
    Kendrick Perkins: 2.5 PPG, 1.4 RPG, and .20 BPG
    Tyson Chandler: 9.2 PPG, 6.9 RPG, and 1.40 BPG
    Andrew Bynum: 7.8 PPG, 5.9 RPG, and 1.60 BPG
    Brad Miller: 7.7 PPG, 5.4 RPG, and .60 BPG
    Joakim Noah: 6.7 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
    Erick Dampier: 11.8 PPG, 8.7 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
    Nene Hilario: 11.8 PPG, 6.5 RPG, and .50 BPG
    Andrew Bogut: 12.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, and .50 BPG

    Have you tell the story, you make it sound like Hibbert is going to be a complete bust. IMHO, he's doing really well considering he's in an offense that basically relys on jumpshots and 3's, then an inside/outside game.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    We dont have the heigth to rebound the ball. When your 7 footer is not a good rebounder it is hard to slow the other team down. They grab the rebound and run. You want to play half court with Hibbert as the focus against David Lee? That to me should not be the game plan. Lee would have demolished Hibbert in the paint. He may be shorter but is stronger and a better athlete. If we went half court they would have immediatley targeted Hibbert in the paint and taken him out of the game with fouls.
    I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.
    David Lee is the best player on a team that is better than the Pacers. There is no question that Lee is significantly better than Hibbert...and he might be better than Granger. ...and Danny be my fav Pacer.

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  11. #34

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Man, do you make mostly negative comments? It seems like every post I read of yours is never positive. Patrick Ewing, Yao Ming, Dikemebe Mutombo, Rik Smits, and Kevin McHale had good to great careers as centers, but they're nothing what I would consider "fleet of foot". Also, Hibbert has all the makings of being a great center for Indiana if JOB runs some of the offense through him. Some 2nd year numbers for current centers....

    Roy Hibbert: 10.5 PPG, 6 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
    Yao Ming: 17.5 PPG, 9.0 RPG, and 1.90 BPG
    Al Horford: 11.5 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
    Kendrick Perkins: 2.5 PPG, 1.4 RPG, and .20 BPG
    Tyson Chandler: 9.2 PPG, 6.9 RPG, and 1.40 BPG
    Andrew Bynum: 7.8 PPG, 5.9 RPG, and 1.60 BPG
    Brad Miller: 7.7 PPG, 5.4 RPG, and .60 BPG
    Joakim Noah: 6.7 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
    Erick Dampier: 11.8 PPG, 8.7 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
    Nene Hilario: 11.8 PPG, 6.5 RPG, and .50 BPG
    Andrew Bogut: 12.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, and .50 BPG

    Have you tell the story, you make it sound like Hibbert is going to be a complete bust. IMHO, he's doing really well considering he's in an offense that basically relys on jumpshots and 3's, then an inside/outside game.
    The Pacers just lost by almost 50 and you think I need to post some positive thoughts? Seriously? I always try and find the good with the Pacers. What good things are you seeing? Honestly? I am being a realist here. That is what I see in Hibbert. He is right now there best player. That to me does not mean is a great player. That means he is the best player on an awful team. What i have read is that most people have annointed him as untradeable. That to me is crazy. He has had some really good games, but so has Dunleavy. Shoot he has put up 30pts on many occassions. Most people think that Dunleavy would not even start on most teams. But I will end it with a couple positives. Hans I love the guy I wanted him from the get go. I was hoping we would draft him and I really like what I see. I also like McRoberts off the bench and would like him to get more PT. I like Price and I like Foster. In fact I started a thread during all this negativity going on asking if Hibbert and Hans were going to be selected into the Freshman Sophmore game. So before you start criticizing maybe you should do so more research into my posts and threads.

  12. #35
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    We dont have the heigth to rebound the ball. When your 7 footer is not a good rebounder it is hard to slow the other team down. They grab the rebound and run. You want to play half court with Hibbert as the focus against David Lee? That to me should not be the game plan. Lee would have demolished Hibbert in the paint. He may be shorter but is stronger and a better athlete. If we went half court they would have immediatley targeted Hibbert in the paint and taken him out of the game with fouls.
    Hibbert is one of the better offensive rebounders in the league, and why should we be so concern what David Lee would do to Hibbert instead of the other way around? Why should Indiana ALWAYS be the team to adjust instead of making the other team to us? When given touches, Hibbert can make things happen as evident in his 7 assists although he didn't score a lot. Hibbert's foul trouble is caused by him wanting to protect the paint, because he's alongside a PF that can't help or perimeter players who can't stop the dribble drive in the 1st place. If this was a trackable stat, I'm pretty sure that Indiana leads the league in allowed dribble pentration and drives into the paint. I rather see him foul out trying to protect the paint on block attempts, instead of being scared of foul trouble all the time.

    “The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot.” - Bill Russell -

  13. #36

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.
    Lee in my opinion is better than every guy you just mentioned.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    Lee in my opinion is better than every guy you just mentioned.
    you are crazy..........

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    David Lee is the best player on a team that is better than the Pacers. There is no question that Lee is significantly better than Hibbert...and he might be better than Granger. ...and Danny be my fav Pacer.
    That doesn't mean you can't let Roy go at him, though. I don't think Hibbert is better than any of the guys I mentioned in my previous post but that didn't stop him from having solid games.

    I'm tired of seeing brick after brick after brick. I'd rather see Roy get 30 touches than see the rest of the team jack up 30 threes. I bet you Roy converts more than 6 of those opportunities.

  16. #39

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Hibbert is one of the better offensive rebounders in the league, and why should we be so concern what David Lee would do to Hibbert instead of the other way around? Why should Indiana ALWAYS be the team to adjust instead of making the other team to us? When given touches, Hibbert can make things happen as evident in his 7 assists although he didn't score a lot. Hibbert's foul trouble is caused by him wanting to protect the paint, because he's alongside a PF that can't help or perimeter players who can't stop the dribble drive in the 1st place. If this was a trackable stat, I'm pretty sure that Indiana leads the league in allowed dribble pentration and drives into the paint. I rather see him foul out trying to protect the paint on block attempts, instead of being scared of foul trouble all the time.

    “The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot.” - Bill Russell -
    Sutton I am not trying to pick on you dude it is just I got nothing to do right now and we are clearly on opposite ends of the world on this topic so it san interesting conversation. The reason why we have to adjust to the Knicks is because they have the talent to dictate what they want to do with our players. We are not there yet. They can force the tempo. They have a rich mans Troy Murphy in Gallinari. They have a force in David Lee. They have speed in Nate Robinson. They have a veteran point guard who can shoot threes and distributes the ball in Duhon. They also have a good rotation while we keep changing line-ups. How can we posisbly dictate what they are going to do on defense when our team hardly knows what they are going to do on offense.

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  18. #40
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Hibbert is one of the better offensive rebounders in the league, and why should we be so concern what David Lee would do to Hibbert instead of the other way around? Why should Indiana ALWAYS be the team to adjust instead of making the other team to us? When given touches, Hibbert can make things happen as evident in his 7 assists although he didn't score a lot. Hibbert's foul trouble is caused by him wanting to protect the paint, because he's alongside a PF that can't help or perimeter players who can't stop the dribble drive in the 1st place. If this was a trackable stat, I'm pretty sure that Indiana leads the league in allowed dribble pentration and drives into the paint. I rather see him foul out trying to protect the paint on block attempts, instead of being scared of foul trouble all the time.

    “The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot.” - Bill Russell -
    I would like to believe that throwing it into Roy would result in a crisp pass to the perimeter with a made 3....or a dunk over David Lee. In fact, I'd advocate trying that over the gar-bage we saw tonight. But the more I've thought about it, I don't think Hibby can remotely guard Lee on the other side. David Lee can drain the 17 footer all night...shooting 80% from the floor if left unguarded...and when Hibby comes out to guard him...then Lee blows by him for an easy bucket or an and-one. I wish it weren't true...but I think the match-up would still favor them on a good day.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    That doesn't mean you can't let Roy go at him, though. I don't think Hibbert is better than any of the guys I mentioned in my previous post but that didn't stop him from having solid games.

    I'm tired of seeing brick after brick after brick. I'd rather see Roy get 30 touches than see the rest of the team jack up 30 threes. I bet you Roy converts more than 6 of those opportunities.
    I'm tempted to agree with you...but honestly, I don't think I can. See my prev. post.

  20. #42

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuq_e_Zi91 View Post
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    That doesn't mean you can't let Roy go at him, though. I don't think Hibbert is better than any of the guys I mentioned in my previous post but that didn't stop him from having solid games.

    I'm tired of seeing brick after brick after brick. I'd rather see Roy get 30 touches than see the rest of the team jack up 30 threes. I bet you Roy converts more than 6 of those opportunities.
    I will agree it is hard to watch the 3 pters just keep flying and hitting nothing but rim.

  21. #43

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    you are crazy..........
    that is quite a possibility.

  22. #44
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    BTW, the entire problem is that David Lee scores the ball with extreme efficiency...and when Hibbert is guarding him it's like shooting in an open gym. I don't like it either, but it's true.

  23. #45
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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    The Pacers just lost by almost 50 and you think I need to post some positive thoughts? Seriously? I always try and find the good with the Pacers. What good things are you seeing? Honestly? I am being a realist here. That is what I see in Hibbert. He is right now there best player. That to me does not mean is a great player. That means he is the best player on an awful team. What i have read is that most people have annointed him as untradeable. That to me is crazy. He has had some really good games, but so has Dunleavy. Shoot he has put up 30pts on many occassions. Most people think that Dunleavy would not even start on most teams. But I will end it with a couple positives. Hans I love the guy I wanted him from the get go. I was hoping we would draft him and I really like what I see. I also like McRoberts off the bench and would like him to get more PT. I like Price and I like Foster. In fact I started a thread during all this negativity going on asking if Hibbert and Hans were going to be selected into the Freshman Sophmore game. So before you start criticizing maybe you should do so more research into my posts and threads.
    You're not being realist. Hibbert is posting descent numbers for a 2nd year Georgetown center in a TERRIBLE offense where it's "shoot the 1st available shot". What you're not seeing is that Hibbert made HUGE strives from his rookie season in offensive moves and defensive positioning. That tells me that Hibbert will work during the offseason to improve game. History has proven that most championship teams need a strong inside presence, and Hibbert has that potential. Historically, NBA players get bigger, stronger over time, so by his 4th year I envision Hibbert over 300 pounds with much needed upper body strength. Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside? As I side note, I did read your previous posts in other threads, and most of the them were negative in my opinion.

  24. #46

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    You're not being realist. Hibbert is posting descent numbers for a 2nd year Georgetown center in a TERRIBLE offense where it's "shoot the 1st available shot". What you're not seeing is that Hibbert made HUGE strives from his rookie season in offensive moves and defensive positioning. That tells me that Hibbert will work during the offseason to improve game. History has proven that most championship teams need a strong inside presence, and Hibbert has that potential. Historically, NBA players get bigger, stronger over time, so by his 4th year I envision Hibbert over 300 pounds with much needed upper body strength. Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside? As I side note, I did read your previous posts in other threads, and most of the them were negative in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    I have officially had enough. This team is a complete and utter failure. We'd better get a very high draft pick and have a huge acquisition planned for next season.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    David Lee is the best player on a team that is better than the Pacers. There is no question that Lee is significantly better than Hibbert...and he might be better than Granger. ...and Danny be my fav Pacer.
    David Lee is good, but I'd like to see if he'd put up these same numbers in another offense. Better than Danny...I dunno about that.

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    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by jhondog28 View Post
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    How can we posisbly dictate what they are going to do on defense when our team hardly knows what they are going to do on offense.
    I will agree you with on that, and maybe that's more the problem than anything else. JOB doesn't know what he wants from his players, and the players don't know he wants from them. He needs to choose a starting lineup and stick with it for the entire season minus injuries. As a player, that would frustrate me having to learn a "new Player" or not knowing who I will be playing with until gameday. Especially, if I've been playing alongside player "a" in practice, then game night I'm playing with player "b". JOB is too busy trying to find an instant winning lineup that damaging the team chemistry, and when he did, he broke it up once they lost one game.

  28. #50

    Default Re: Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    I will agree you with on that, and maybe that's more the problem than anything else. JOB doesn't know what he wants from his players, and the players don't know he wants from them. He needs to choose a starting lineup and stick with it for the entire season minus injuries. As a player, that would frustrate me having to learn a "new Player" or not knowing who I will be playing with until gameday. Especially, if I've been playing alongside player "a" in practice, then game night I'm playing with player "b". JOB is too busy trying to find an instant winning lineup that damaging the team chemistry, and when he did, he broke it up once they lost one game.
    Yea I agree it must suck being a coach on a bad team manily because the competitor in you wants to win but you have a group of players and they dont mesh well how in the hell can you possibly find a winning combination and generate consistency. I wonder if the coaches at the other crap teams have th same problem or if they just have a very green team so they are not sure what they got.

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