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Thread: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

  1. #26
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Also can we really compare the Celtics 3 game losing streak to our 5 game win streak? except as they are complete opposites? Celtics were without Rondo, Paul and Garnett. Omg, they lost 3 games, who could've guessed that would happen? We were actually missing our supposed key players too (Murph, Dunleavy, Foster) yet played the best basketball of the season. Go figure.
    You are making my point. My overall point is that it is not wise to isolate 5 games or 3 games and act like those games are any more important than the other 77 or 79 games.

    The defense was a little better during that 5 games stretch, but there were other games where the defense was also good. (it was not good only during the 5 game stretch) This season except for games here and there, usually on Sunday the defense has been OK - the offense has been more of a problem.

  2. #27
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Ford's 5 game stats.
    1) At New York - played 28 minutes, scored 16 points, including 6 huge points in the last 2 minutes to seal the win

    2) Wizards - 40 mins - 18 pts, 10 rebs. Go back and read Peck's comments after this game and how he described how well Ford played. I was at this game and Ford was our best player. Peck made several comments about how good Ford's defense was on Gilbert

    3 - G. State - injured only played 4 mins

    4) Celts - just coming back from injury - 17 mins , 10 pts

    5) At NJ - played 32 minutes 7 pts, 6 rebs, 4 assists.
    I don't see that as heavily persuasive. The only thing that is maybe relevant is six points in the last couple minutes against the Knicks. But that's only because he's the only one with the ball in his hands down the stretch. We could have easily won by passing it around down the stretch as well.

    I think you're reaching by saying TJ was a critical factor in the five game streak. As far as trends go, he was playing less and doing less during the streak. The trend was toward more Watson in terms of playing time AND leadership.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The biggest factor against the Wolves - the Wolves played a horrible 1st half, and the Pacers were on fire from three point range. The second half the Wolves clearly outplayed the Pacers - outscoring the P's by 17 points . I don't think that was a good game. Sure, if the pacers can hit 10 threes in most games they will have a chance to be in the games. But play that way tomorrow night and it is a double digit loss to the Magic - assuming the Magic are near what they normally are
    I think you miss a lot of intangibles and a lot of the human factor, which Obie is particularly bad at catching. First, why did they hit so many threes? Maybe because the Hibbert inside/outside offense was working well?

    Second, it's very typical that a huge lead gets widdled down. The question is whether you can hold on. To me, the critical part of that game was in the last minute or two when JOB subbed Hibbert back in because we couldn't score. Roy hit a big, big basket down in the low post, then had a couple more assists to win the game.

    The human factor here is that Hibbert has the mentality to score and win games down the stretch. He's a gamer (very unlike Rush). To say "I don't think it was a good game" is just plain myopic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The group that played the past two games is not the same group that played during the 5 game winning streak. so I don't see how any comparisons are be drawn
    Be fair. Of course it's not the exact same group. But no Murph, no Foster, and very little TJ is the obvious comparison. I could argue that this crew won in spite of no Granger and Hansbrough, further strengthening the five game win streak argument. Why are you being so irrational about all this? It just seems so unlike you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    2) Wizards - 40 mins - 18 pts, 10 rebs. Go back and read Peck's comments after this game and how he described how well Ford played. I was at this game and Ford was our best player. Peck made several comments about how good Ford's defense was on Gilbert
    Those stats aren't relevant because the Wiz are a terrible team with a terrible record.

    Last edited by McKeyFan; 01-04-2010 at 10:37 AM.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  3. #28
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The defense was a little better during that 5 games stretch, but there were other games where the defense was also good.
    The defense has never been as good as during that period. Let me tell you only 1 reason why.

    When Granger was playing PF, he helped Hibbert tremendously by protecting the paint. Danny had 2 blocks in three of those games...and never had more than 1 in any other game. He also had 16 boards against Golden State during that stretch. It is a terrible shame that the Pacers don't maximize his abilities by giving him an opportunity to be a huge mismatch. Sure, he may have problems with Duncan and JO, but so do the rest of our PF's....and Danny would make JO pay dearly on the other end of the court. Goodness, he handled Garnett pretty well during the streak........and he would roast 8 out of 10 other PF's on a stick.

    When he's guarding the perimeter, the Pacers lose out on his ability to block shots and steal from slower bigs. That was part of the swarm factor in those games. He's not had double figure boards in any other game...because he's always guarding the perimeter....which is a complete misuse of his abilities.

    Honestly, I find it odd, that no one seems to think of Granger as a PF. He is a strong, athletic, 6'9" guy. Yes, he can shoot lights out, but he can still defend the PF position better than most of our bigs. He has the athleticism and length to handle the position 80-90% of the time. If he doesn't you just throw McBob, Foster or someone bigger in...who will do just fine against the 7 footers.

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  5. #29

    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You are making my point. My overall point is that it is not wise to isolate 5 games or 3 games and act like those games are any more important than the other 77 or 79 games.

    The defense was a little better during that 5 games stretch, but there were other games where the defense was also good. (it was not good only during the 5 game stretch) This season except for games here and there, usually on Sunday the defense has been OK - the offense has been more of a problem.
    Buck, I think that is just a bit far fetched logic man. You are pretty much saying anything can happen so discount that 5 game win streak, when your expample given with Celts and Pacers are such completely different happenstances. The Celts lost those games like everyone thought they should, because they were missing their best players. The Pacers on the other hand are missing 3-4 of their "best" players and in spite of that win 5 games in a row, playing the best basketball of the season. How can there not be something to that?

  6. #30
    Member mcampbellarch's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    I will stop invoking the brief period of 2010 where we were undefeated.

    I was out of town over the holiday and caught up on the games last weekend - capped off by the dismal performance yesterday. There is bad, and then there is remarkably bad. Those poor kids without back-packs.

    Still confused as to why TJ didn't see any time Sunday. Nice to see Deiner though.

  7. #31

    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    5 game win streak? Don't talk about a 5 game win streak! I just hope they can win another 5 games!

    /Mora

  8. #32
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    2. O'Brien returns to the lineup and strategy that won us five games in a row and we LOSE five games in a row. Make it four, or even three.

    The second option can't happen until Granger returns. But it would include heavy doses of Hibbert, Watson, DJones, Rush, Tyler, and Solo, with Granger playing the four.
    Good luck seeing this line-up lose 5 in a row. Even without Granger and Hans, there is simply more passion with this group...and actual NBA level defense. Add Granger and Hans and I think you have a reailistic shot at 5 W's in a row again at some point.

    The Cavs trade could not come fast enough.

  9. #33
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    How about a hearty hoorah for Mckey fan. This game tonight sure supports the
    5 game win streak philosophy.
    {o,o}
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  10. #34
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    How about a hearty hoorah for Mckey fan. This game tonight sure supports the
    5 game win streak philosophy.
    Yup. He is the Chairman and CEO of the 5 game win streak club. I'm just happy to be a member.

    I think membership is growing...

  11. #35
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    How about a hearty hoorah for Mckey fan. This game tonight sure supports the
    5 game win streak philosophy.
    Which is what. Play anyone but Murphy and Ford and win (even though Ford was a huge factor in 3 of the 5 wins).

  12. #36

    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Which is what. Play anyone but Murphy and Ford and win (even though Ford was a huge factor in 3 of the 5 wins).
    Well you got one of the two guys right there IMHO. See sig to guess which one.

  13. #37
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    If there's smoke...
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

  14. #38
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Uncle Buck, I had a revelation overnight as to why you are so upset about this five game win streak argument.

    You don't love Troy or TJ. That's not the problem.

    It's Jeff Foster.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  15. #39
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP63 View Post
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    If there's smoke...
    That's what I am thinking. There is something to the argument.
    {o,o}
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  16. #40
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Uncle Buck, I had a revelation overnight as to why you are so upset about this five game win streak argument.

    You don't love Troy or TJ. That's not the problem.

    It's Jeff Foster.
    No, that isn't it at all.

  17. #41
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    STOP IT!
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  20. #43
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Well, you've brought back a couple oldies but goodies, B&G.

    I reread through it and thanked Imawhat's post #19 two and half years after the fact. His point is still quite relevant.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  21. #44
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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Well, you've brought back a couple oldies but goodies, B&G.

    I reread through it and thanked Imawhat's post #19 two and half years after the fact. His point is still quite relevant.
    The 5 game winning streak was a clear signpost in the JOb era that some passed right on by while others connected with at a deep level...and saw things clearly. Sorry for the multi-bump for those with thin skins...but it was an important part of Pacer history...;<)

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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    ...Sorry for the multi-bump for those with thin skins...but it was an important part of Pacer history...;<)
    Anything that brings up the "unnamed one" is, how do you say it, irrelevant. As such, it is a piece of Pacers history that is better forgotten.

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    Default Re: I will stop invoking the 5 game win streak when . . .

    You might in the future consider starting a new thread and using it to link back to / quote from multiple old posts, so there's no confusion and so those threads stay in the appropriate time period of the forum if/when people go looking for them to see what was being said back then. Bumping them shifts them forward in time and makes them 'disappear' from their original time period.

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