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Thread: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    First let me tell you how bad it is getting here in Pacerland, this from Twitter earlier tonight.

    @dukedynamite I am livid. Guess who may not renew next year if something doesn't get fixed

    Now I'm sure Duke was speaking in the heat of the moment but let's be honest here if someone who tries very hard to always look for the bright side of things for the team is this way how do you think someone who is not so optimistic is taking this?

    I said it before and I'll say it again. The fans that are there are the fans that are going to be there. They aren't going to lose any more fans and they are not going to bring in new fans so now is the time to play the players who need developing.

    The first long losing streak knocked everybody down, Danny going down with injury knocked most everybody out and I think this long losing streak has officially put the death knell on the season. I think even the most optimistic fan looks at this team and says that making a late season push for either an 8th seed or worse yet a 9th seed is about the worst thing that the club could do. We need talent and right now the only way we are going to get it is by getting a higher draft pick.

    Now I caveat that by saying that this assumes that we make no changes to the club, which right now I don't believe we will. However if for some reason we get some new player that improves us then I am open to changing my thought but as of now I just don't see it.

    I think I'm probably done talking about O'Brien. What is the point? Unless Bird was bluffing or hedging his bets it is safe to assume that not only is Jim going to be here this year but I think some of you might want to find an alternative team to watch next year as well. I certainly hope not but right now that is where I feel like we are headed.

    I will say this for Jim for last nights game. I saw that starting lineup of his and I didn't know to laugh or cry. I mean other than Hibbert who I think he should be forced to start no matter what he wants, but I digress, there really are not a lot of better alternatives on the bench. And the quality of the starting lineup had me asking myself is this the single worst lineup in the entire NBA? I answered my own question (yes I was talking to myself) and just said yes. That may be the single least talented group of players to start in a game in several years on about any team in the NBA.

    I mean D. Jones could be a high rotational player on a good team, Murphy and Dunleavy could also both be specialist on good teams but I don't think either starts, S. Jones would be a back up big man and probably not the first one off of the bench either and T.J. Ford would never be on a good team. He could start for a bad team (thus us) and he might be able to find backup work for a good club like Dallas but that is about it.

    But as bad as that was with no Granger, no Foster, no Hansbrough there is just not one other player on the bench (other than Hibbert & maybe Price) who I was thinking to myself we really need to get this guy out there.

    Let me just add that Brandon Rush is continuing on his treadmill to nowhere. Giving him min. on the floor is like giving him the Glengarry leads, it's just like throwing them away.

    Really in 20 some min. of action he got up 4 shots and didn't hit a single one of them? From his twitter account from earlier today he said he was d@mn tired for some reason. Perhaps he should claim he is coming down with the flu or something because his play on the floor is pretty much making everyone else sick. BTW, no matter how bad I have ripped on O'Brien this season I have NEVER blamed him for Rush's poor performance and I will continue this. He has been given everything and he is doing NOTHING with it.

    Troy Murphy is doubtful for the game vs. the Griz tonight. Is it wrong to want to write in an all-star ballot for Brad Millers leg?

    O'Brien keeps saying he is searching for something in the starting lineup and has literally changed 4 of the 5 starters yet there is always one that never seems to have his starting job taken???? Also there seems to be some form of correlation between when one player goes to the bench the team seems to make a run. I'm just not sure which player that is.

    Dunleavy hit a couple of shots and looked a little better but overall I still say he has hit the wall hard, at least I hope that is what it is.

    But enough doom and gloom, we all know what we have on the floor and we all pretty much know how this season is going to turn out. So let's take a few min. to appreciate a couple of good things that happened in the Chicago game.

    Roy had a pretty good overall game. This guy is a true professional and I think as a human we should be happy to have him. Other players would have pouted or not played well or hard from being benched (again) but Roy came right in like he does every game and played hard. He did a good job of drawing fouls and then hitting his free throws. He also seemed to be active on the glass.

    Josh McRoberts, well frankly since both Tyler and Danny were out and I knew before the game even started that it was going to be Roy out of the lineup I almost didn't want to watch the game because I figured it would be boring as h#ll and that I would be treated to non stop jump shot parade.

    Thanks to Josh I got to see two of the best dunks of the year on our team and probably the best power forward pass I am going to see all season long from any team.

    In the second quarter he was on absolute fire.

    Also I will take time to give JOB credit here; he stuck with him and did not re-insert Troy. However Tyler did hit a three so maybe Jim started to believe.

    Also I will give Troy credit here as well, nobody was cheering harder on that bench for Josh than Troy was.

    Then the second half came and the Bulls adjusted and Josh was pretty well shut out, not to mention he was pretty gassed by the end of the 4th.

    But thanks to him the game was at least fun to watch for a few min.

    Now if Troy can't play tonight and if Tyler is still out Josh is going to be called on again.

    Here is the problem that I see with this. I always hate when a player goes from not playing for games at a time to being called on for heavy min. It really almost sets them up to fail so I have no doubt that Josh is going to struggle and be fatigued. You wouldn't think he would be but when you are not used to playing those kinds of min. it will take a lot out of you.

    So I would like to have everyone take a deep breath about him for the upcoming game. If he produces great, but don't get to excited. Teams have not seen much of him and don't have him scouted all that well so the second time they play him they will adjust.

    If he falters then his detractors need to take a break as well, it is unfair to expect any player to go from 14th man to starter and excel.

    He doesn't have to be spectacular but he does have to compete and I am far more interested him rebounding and defending well than I am in him putting on a dunk session, although that would be nice as well.

    Once again Luther Head provided valuable min. on the floor. In fact every single min. that Rush is getting needs to go to this guy. He was doing a lot of things that helped get us that run in the second. He was moving without the ball and he fires his shot in an instant and lets face it, he is the only guard on our team that when he shoots you think actually has some type of chance of going in.

    In fact I would really like to see Luther start at the two and D. Jones start at the three till Danny returns or at least till Mike gets his wind back.

    Here is my shocking statement of the night. If Danny and Tyler would have played I think we would have beaten them. They were fouling to beat the band vs. Roy, I think Tyler would have fouled out their entire frontcourt in about five min. and they have no real answer for Danny.

    But alas they were not here so it is what it is.

    I hate the loss but at the very least I walk away from this one not feeling like we laid down.

    BTW, that Rose is one hell of a player. Does he ever miss?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    It's really, really sad for me. I'm the kind of guy who loves something until it dies. Loyalty is something I value more than anything else I can think of offhand. I've been a Kansas City Chief fan since I was 5. We've won a total of 9 games in the last 3 years...I still love the Chiefs. We have so many guys who are just worth rooting for week in and week out, no matter how it goes. Team does poorly, but I still find something to love about them.

    I want to love the Pacers. I have since I was 7. I could accept maybe just liking them...but I simply can't find anything redeeming about this team. I don't love a single player here. There is no one I can lock in on, despite the suck, and say hey, you know what, that's my dude right there. Can't buy a win, but that's my dude.

    I mean, I can love the Chiefs through 9 wins in 3 seasons... I can love Jamaal Tinsley through it all, defend him here all these years, Stephen Jackson too... I'm hard to shake once I grow attached, but I'm losing my fandom on this squad. I've stopped watching games. Sometimes I don't even bother with the box score. I don't ever feel like donning my Pacer apparel.

    I love the NBA, I will be a fan of it until I die, and I want that to be true of the Pacers as well, but I need a team I can get behind. My love of basketball is going to end up trumping all the loyalty I have for the Pacers, and I'm going to wind up a Thunder fan.

    Maybe this isn't the right thread for this, maybe there isn't that thread...but it was cathartic. I want so badly to love this team again.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    How can we expect to be a good team if our fans have such a defeatist attitude and want to throw the season already (not referring to Peck, just in general).

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Troy Murphy is doubtful for the game vs. the Griz tonight. Is it wrong to want to write in an all-star ballot for Brad Millers leg?

    O'Brien keeps saying he is searching for something in the starting lineup and has literally changed 4 of the 5 starters yet there is always one that never seems to have his starting job taken???? Also there seems to be some form of correlation between when one player goes to the bench the team seems to make a run. I'm just not sure which player that is.
    Second quarter? Yes. late in the third quarter? No. When Troy went down in the third quarter and the reserves came back into the game the pacers went from a 1 point lead to down 12. Sure in the second quarter the opposite took place. And I don't want to parce the numbers and run through a bunch of stats. My point is not to single out any player in this mess as so many have been doing with Murphy I think is wrong, unfair and a bit disingenious. Murphy stinks I've never liked him, that is not my point. But this team is terrible right now whether Murhy starts, comes of the bench, whether he plays 2 minutes or 48 minutes. And please no one even consider bring up the 5-gws.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-30-2009 at 09:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    And please no one even consider bring up the 5-gws.
    As Servpro Fire and Water Cleanup and Restoration puts it in their ads -- "Like it never even happened".

    I do agree with you, though. We did not play well enough even during that stretch to have won five in a row, in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Good advice that I should start to find another team to watch.
    Too difficult for me to expect a loss every time I watch a game.
    Maybe Denver, Dallas, and Utah.
    I enjoy watching good PGs.
    Too bad we don't have one.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Let me just add that Brandon Rush is continuing on his treadmill to nowhere. Giving him min. on the floor is like giving him the Glengarry leads, it's just like throwing them away.


    Here is my shocking statement of the night. If Danny and Tyler would have played I think we would have beaten them. They were fouling to beat the band vs. Roy, I think Tyler would have fouled out their entire frontcourt in about five min. and they have no real answer for Danny.
    That's quite possible. The Bulls are an interesting contrast to the Pacers. I think they're loaded with talent, are terribly coached, and don't play to their talent level.

    The single successful screen and roll they did with Rose and Tyrus last night was like the first time they've pulled it off in two years. For a team with a wonderful PG and several good mid-range shooters, they almost never do this. It's absurd.

    Talent-wise, Rose, Hinrich, Deng, Tyrus, Noah, with Miller, Salmons and Taj Gibson (I guess), are a pretty solid unit. Not championship material, but they ought to be a playoff team. The fact that their record is pretty place to the Pacers is evidence of just what a crappy job of coaching and putting together depth the Bulls have done.

    In contrast, the Pacers, I think, generally play to about their potential. The problem is they just don't have a lot of it. That's the main reason I'm not super hard on JOB. Because I don't see that anyone's going to get much more out of this bunch. That being said, with a healthy team, a less-talented but well coached team is always a threat to beat a talented but poorly lead one. And the Pacers were close to pulling that off without their best player.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    So if Duke and others are bailing, how can you say the fans we have left aren't going anywhere? Clearly we still have fans to lose.

    I'd also like to point out that since Troy is the Evil of Evils, the South Bend Horror, we should win by 20 tonight because he will be out.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So if Duke and others are bailing, how can you say the fans we have left aren't going anywhere? Clearly we still have fans to lose.

    I'd also like to point out that since Troy is the Evil of Evils, the South Bend Horror, we should win by 20 tonight because he will be out.

    You don't think those guys from Marion and Indy might not agree with your point? I know you're kidding, but save your money by betting that way if for some reason you are serious.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 12-30-2009 at 10:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    This is not a year to walk away from the franchise. It is a rebuilding/transitioning year. If we flub up the three year plan, sure, but I don't think anyone should have gone into this season thinking the Pacers were going to make a lot of progress.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Also I will take time to give JOB credit here; he stuck with him and did not re-insert Troy. However Tyler did hit a three so maybe Jim started to believe.
    Just going to give you a little razz on this one...Don't confuse them!

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    This is not a year to walk away from the franchise. It is a rebuilding/transitioning year. If we flub up the three year plan, sure, but I don't think anyone should have gone into this season thinking the Pacers were going to make a lot of progress.
    I didn't expect a lot of progress, but some.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    This is how far and long it takes me to get to a game. I really do not have the patience to devote that much time into watching this team lose night in and night out. If we weren't getting blown out or giving up big leads it'd be different.

    Zoom out for detail...


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    Last edited by duke dynamite; 12-30-2009 at 10:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Just going to give you a little razz on this one...Don't confuse them!
    NO that is how good Tyler is, he hit a 3, in zero minutes. And people questioned the pick!


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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    NO that is how good Tyler is, he hit a 3, in zero minutes. And people questioned the pick!

    Good one.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
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    Good advice that I should start to find another team to watch.
    Too difficult for me to expect a loss every time I watch a game.
    Maybe Denver, Dallas, and Utah.
    I enjoy watching good PGs.
    Too bad we don't have one
    .
    we might have one but Jim won't give him a chance

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    we might have one but Jim won't give him a chance

    I think I'm going to just keep asking this, until he gets to play or you all throw me off of PD. What's not to like about AJ Price?

    I mean he could play more and stink, but I swear everytime he's played, I thought he played very well.

    Even the poor shooting game, I thought he took good shots, played good D, stayed very active, but yet under control.

    If the Pacers can't give me Ws, then at least give me some hope.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think I'm going to just keep asking this, until he gets to play or you all throw me off of PD. What's not to like about AJ Price?

    I mean he could play more and stink, but I swear everytime he's played, I thought he played very well.

    Even the poor shooting game, I thought he took good shots, played good D, stayed very active, but yet under control.

    If the Pacers can't give me Ws, then at least give me some hope.
    Unfortunately, money plays. Common sense should tell JOB to play Price, because when you are losing as much and as badly as we are, one can't really make the argument that the veterans PGs give us a better chance to win.

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    All hail King George! KnicksRGarbage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So if Duke and others are bailing, how can you say the fans we have left aren't going anywhere? Clearly we still have fans to lose.
    I don't think Duke would be a fan lost. I think he'd be a guy who couldn't bring himself to pay a pretty penny in ticket prices, let alone gas, to see his beloved Pacers be obliterated every game. That drive from Bedford to Indy is a doosie!

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    I've reached the point where I've taken a step back and tried to remind myself that we could all be looking too deep into this to try to find something that isn't there.

    Are there several issues? Certainly.

    However, take a minute and think about this simple fact:

    If someone told you in October that Rush would completely go back into his shell, Danny would be out, and Mike would be at about 50%, isn't this generally about what you would expect to happen?

    Those guys (especially Danny and Mike, but I think they were counting on Brandon, too) are the biggest guns of our offense. No ifs and/or buts about it. Take them away, and this is about what you should expect to see happening on offense.

    Yes, there are other factors, and reasonable complaints are to be made, but at the end of the day, I don't currently believe this is Jim's sword to fall on. It's also not time for a firesale (frankly, because that's impossible for one, but also it would do no good).

    No, as much as it may suck, right now is the time for wearing your Donnie Walsh glasses, leaning back in your seat, and being patient to see how things develop.

    Jim O'Brien is not going to be fired any time soon, nor should he. (That is not to say he's someone who should be here for years to come, either).

    The players are not likely to be traded any time soon. And if the only way to do so is to trade for yet worse contracts, nor should they.

    I predict that if Danny comes back and is really over the heel issues, we'll end up winning about 30 games. Just be prepared for something like that.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think I'm going to just keep asking this, until he gets to play or you all throw me off of PD. What's not to like about AJ Price?

    I mean he could play more and stink, but I swear everytime he's played, I thought he played very well.

    Even the poor shooting game, I thought he took good shots, played good D, stayed very active, but yet under control.

    If the Pacers can't give me Ws, then at least give me some hope.
    believe me im with you speed.........i mean we can't do any worse...... what are we scared we're gonna lose a few games.

    play the kid see what he can do. our current pg players aren't cutting it. they've had long enough to prove themselves, time to give price a chance. i say start him.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    The idea that the players who brought us close in the first half are set up to fail in the second half crossed my mind too.
    I have to believe that this team, as it is constructed, is set up to go after a lottery pick. OB coaches in such a manner that it seems he's been told, or is resigned to the fact that his team will not be a winner and he is determined to keep it that way. The guys who brought us energy in that second quarter comeback were in no way shape or form going to repeat that in the fourth. They were gassed and Chicago has too much pride and talent to allow that. I don't understand why O'Brien then didn't attempt to mix it up even more, maybe with Price to dish and TJ moving into Rush's spot? We all claim Ford is a SG in a PGs body, it is time to face the fact that Rush deserves nothing more than pine time and find a shooting guard to roll with some of the other guys who are willing to leave it out there.
    I just don't see our stubborn leaders willing to change direction now.
    Most disappointing is the fact that there is no development of the youngsters in favor of the broken down old vets (whom we all know what they bring). Broken record.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    This is how far and long it takes me to get to a game. I really do not have the patience to devote that much time into watching this team lose night in and night out. If we weren't getting blown out or giving up big leads it'd be different.

    Zoom out for detail...


    View Larger Map
    Hey, I love the Pacers, but if I were in your situation, even if we had one of the better teams in the East I'd probably be going to 4-5 games a year. You're one of the die hards in my book no matter what you end up doing.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    This is how far and long it takes me to get to a game. I really do not have the patience to devote that much time into watching this team lose night in and night out. If we weren't getting blown out or giving up big leads it'd be different.

    Zoom out for detail...


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    Duke,

    It's been forever since I've been down 37 but is it still a two lane highway? Or have they expanded it to a four lane like 31?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Chicago loss

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Duke,

    It's been forever since I've been down 37 but is it still a two lane highway? Or have they expanded it to a four lane like 31?
    It's 4 lanes until you get south of Bedford.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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