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Thread: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

  1. #51
    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    This isn't going to end well, is it?
    Depends if you think contending for one of the top-3 draft spots is a good ending or not
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Depends if you think contending for one of the top-3 draft spots is a good ending or not
    That thought saddens me too because this draft consists of a very weak class. Maybe, just maybe we get the #1 and land Wall. Yes, that will do.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
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    That thought saddens me too because this draft consists of a very weak class. Maybe, just maybe we get the #1 and land Wall. Yes, that will do.
    What? Everything I have read says that this is a strong draft. Much stronger than last year's. The point guards are weak outside of Wall, sure, but there are a lot of athletic big guys that could really help us at the top.

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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    What? Everything I have read says that this is a strong draft. Much stronger than last year's. The point guards are weak outside of Wall, sure, but there are a lot of athletic big guys that could really help us at the top.
    Please indulge. I started looking into this year's draft once I realized our team is pathetic, but am not convinced by it's depth.

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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    I started a new thread to help educate us on this year's draft, so if you decide to reply put it there. Thanks.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    I am very frustrated with both the Pacers and Colts organizations right now.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Here's Bird's real dilemma:

    He brought in both this coach and nearly all these players. There is debate as to the GSW trade for Dun and Troy, generally it's considered a Bird deal whenever Dun or Troy play great or when Jackson acts up, otherwise it's apparently all Walsh.

    Regardless even Foster came in while he was coaching, and he was in the front office when every single player was brought in or drafted.


    So if it really is the players then who was it that evaluated them? Weren't they bringing in guys that could support a coach and plan no matter what? But now those players need to know that they'll go before the coach goes?

    That sounds like players with attitude issues, at least in Bird's view, and yet Bird is the one responsible for bringing them in. So either it's JOB's issue or Bird's, and even if it's JOB's issue he was also brought in by Bird.



    I was a big fan of Rush's game, big fan of Roy's attitude, and have seen lots of potential in Roy after not thinking much of him as a draft pick. However, both have struggled and I think we all know how I feel about the Hans pick. Even Rush I thought was taken a bit too high and I really wanted to the Pacers to trade down and use Dun to help get another 20-30th pick.

    The point being, for all the credit we have been giving him the results are starting to suggest that the 3 year plan is headed more down than up right now, and that was not expected even by more pessimistic fans like myself or Peck.




    I do agree with some of you. A vote of confidence might be a step to feel out the situation. Let's say he gets that vote, play continues to be poor or worse, perhaps a player or two are dealt and bad play continues even beyond that...then what? How does that not point a finger right back at JOB.

    I'm not saying a GM can't make mistakes. They all make mistakes. But there is a clear trend with Bird to somewhat dismiss those errors or refuse to acknowledge them. This thing with JOB sure seems like one of them.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    When you say "mob" that paints the picture as an irrational bunch just out looking for blood. That is as far from the case as possible.

    JOb is the root of the problem. Look at his offensive designs. What are they? They highlight the skills of players like Troy Murphy, and put players like Roy Hibbert on the bench. The message is too shoot the ball when open. Players like D.Jones aren't good shooters. TJ isn't a good shooter.

    etc
    I'm with S86 here. How is complaining about the roster and/or coaching of a bottom 5 team, one that's trending to end up closer to bottom 3 right now, considered to be a "mob" mentality or impatient.

    S***, I'm still going to games that cost me a fair amount of cash in tough economy. I'm as invested in the team as I could possibly be, so it's not like I'm just knee jerking. And that describes a lot of other core PD people for sure.

    So certainly I'm as against the flip-flopping from game to game as anyone, but this isn't the same thing. This is losing badly and then doing it again and again.


    "Plagued by injuries?" Doing the best with what he has? Yes, because once again we must totally ignore the brawl season which featured Ron totally out, JO out for 15 games to start and then a bunch more injured, Jackson out for 25, Tinsley out for a ton of games with "injuries", Reggie and Foster starting the year injured....I mean good lord people, let's get some perspective here.

    It's Granger and a start without Dunleavy. Well they freaking didn't even have Dun last year and did have Granger out for some games last year with injury. Quis was one of their top defenders and missed his usual ton of games.

    It's just stupid to view the team this year as held back by injuries. If anything we saw some better play without Dun or Troy even out there and there appears to be depth to the roster, at least compared to the starting talent levels.


    Carlisle kept showing up at the top of the COY voting specifically for winning with roster issues and players coming up bigger than expected (including Ron's only AS and DPOY season). It's time for JOB to start proving his worth.

    The Houston Rockets called and told JOB and Bird to freaking man up already. The Pacers have about as much input from Yao and TMac this year as the Rockets do. Houston is flipping 18-13 right now with guys like Brooks, Scola, Ariza, and Battier...oh, and somehow they find a way to get low draft picks like Landry and Budinger significant playing time without losing as well.

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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I'm with S86 here. How is complaining about the roster and/or coaching of a bottom 5 team, one that's trending to end up closer to bottom 3 right now, considered to be a "mob" mentality or impatient.

    S***, I'm still going to games that cost me a fair amount of cash in tough economy. I'm as invested in the team as I could possibly be, so it's not like I'm just knee jerking. And that describes a lot of other core PD people for sure.

    So certainly I'm as against the flip-flopping from game to game as anyone, but this isn't the same thing. This is losing badly and then doing it again and again.


    "Plagued by injuries?" Doing the best with what he has? Yes, because once again we must totally ignore the brawl season which featured Ron totally out, JO out for 15 games to start and then a bunch more injured, Jackson out for 25, Tinsley out for a ton of games with "injuries", Reggie and Foster starting the year injured....I mean good lord people, let's get some perspective here.

    It's Granger and a start without Dunleavy. Well they freaking didn't even have Dun last year and did have Granger out for some games last year with injury. Quis was one of their top defenders and missed his usual ton of games.

    It's just stupid to view the team this year as held back by injuries. If anything we saw some better play without Dun or Troy even out there and there appears to be depth to the roster, at least compared to the starting talent levels.


    Carlisle kept showing up at the top of the COY voting specifically for winning with roster issues and players coming up bigger than expected (including Ron's only AS and DPOY season). It's time for JOB to start proving his worth.

    The Houston Rockets called and told JOB and Bird to freaking man up already. The Pacers have about as much input from Yao and TMac this year as the Rockets do. Houston is flipping 18-13 right now with guys like Brooks, Scola, Ariza, and Battier...oh, and somehow they find a way to get low draft picks like Landry and Budinger significant playing time without losing as well.
    Screw it,

    Lets all march to Conseco like the old days!!!
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    Thumbs down Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    O'Brien's job is secure.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    I agree this sounds more as a warning to O'Brien than to the players. I wouldn't be surprised if JOB was allowed to know that he's a deadline to put up a better product on the floor.

    However, I disagree with most (all?) of you in one aspect: personally, I don't see definitive signs that the coach has lost the team. There's still plenty of defensive hustle and ball-sharing. Making body language readings is always problematic, but in the Miami game I noticed that players like Hansbrough, Murphy and Dahntay Jones were clearly bothered and unhappy with what was going on. It seems to me that will that the bricks they're throwing, they've been trying to get to the rim more than usual.

    Every team goes through rough stretches. If they last for too long, then eventually the coach will lose the players as they'll just stop trusting whatever he's trying to do and not even try to do it.

    Then again, I don't see those typical signs of a team that has tuned out the coac - selfish play, lack of effort and hustle, fastbreak points allowed.. they're still clearing the defensive glass more or less decently, which is no small feat for a team with a single above-average rebounder for his position in the entire roster; they're 5th in the league in eFG% allowed and 11th in def. efficiency, which is very good for a team marching out there with a Murphy/Hibbert combo for so many minutes (and rank 9th in fastbreak points pg allowed); they're 9th in FTA per FGA, which shows they're trying to attack the rim and draw fouls instead of just lazily settling for the jumper. The biggest problem, it seems to me, is that they haven't been hitting shots, as simplistic as this may sound. In the last 2 seasons the Pacers were one of the best teams in the league with the long-shot, this season they're probably one of the worst.

    I understand that 2 consecutive blow-out losses makes one wonder, but I'd wait before jumping to conclusions. When one is seeing a team whose players run away from physical contact in screens, as "screeners" or "screeneds", or jogging half-heartedly running back to the defensive end, then it's safe to assume that the coach isn't able to make the players believe enough to at least try. But I've yet to see that happening.

    Of course, that never stopped a GM from firing a coach (the Nets with Frank are a the very last example of that, I thought they were playing very decently for their level of talent when they decided to release him), but if I were Bird I'd try everything to stick with O'Brien for at least as long as it'd take me to get rid of this bunch of veterans. It may take more than 1 year, are they going to go with an interim coach for so long? Nah, unless the teams stops trying I'd just endure the frustration and wait.

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  17. #62

    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    (...)
    The Houston Rockets called and told JOB and Bird to freaking man up already. The Pacers have about as much input from Yao and TMac this year as the Rockets do. Houston is flipping 18-13 right now with guys like Brooks, Scola, Ariza, and Battier...oh, and somehow they find a way to get low draft picks like Landry and Budinger significant playing time without losing as well.
    Yeah, but aren't those guys way more talented than the Pacers role-players? In my view they certainly are. I mean, with Yao and McGrady the Rockets would be contenders and certainly a top-6 team in the league. With Granger and Dunleavy, the Pacers would have a chance of fighting for the playoffs, but by no means they'd be a shoe in. Without their top 2 players, the Rockets can still make the playoffs but they have no chance of making a run; the Pacers become a bottom dweller.

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  19. #63
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You might like rooting for a horible team, but most of us do not.

    I have disliked the hiring of JOb since the very first time it was announced he was the HC. I ranted and raved about his offensive system, and tried to tell everyone who would listen about how his defensive....well whatever it is, wouldn't work either.

    Everything that has happened wasn't about "if" it was about "when." There isn't an angry mob having knee-jerk reactions. Those supposedly happpened three weeks ago.

    For some of us, those reactions have been "knee-jerk" for well over two years now.
    I think the coaching staff did an excellent job the past two sesons getting this team to win 36 games and generally be in every game. So if JOB is fired tomorrow, I'll say he did a very nice job for two seasons

  20. #64

    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Screw it,

    Lets all march to Conseco like the old days!!!

    I've got the pitch fork. Who has the tar n feathers?

  21. #65
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    the players are the ones that are probably going to leave.
    Is that a promise?
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  22. #66
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=677

    Pierre in Indy, IN:
    Are the Pacers just going to let this season crumble to the ground, or will they make a trade, or fire Jim O'Brien.. or both?

    Alex Kennedy:

    The general consensus in Indiana is that they're still a good team, they've just been plagued with injuries that have slowed them down. I can't see Jim O'Brien going anywhere, he's done his best without a full deck of cards and the management seems to trust him. They'll likely shop around but I can't see them making a huge trade. They want to see how they're team performs when healthy.

    Probably the most deliusional outlook I have ever heard
    Ha I forgot I asked that question last night for today's chat! Thanks for the reminder

  23. #67

    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I think the coaching staff did an excellent job the past two sesons getting this team to win 36 games and generally be in every game. So if JOB is fired tomorrow, I'll say he did a very nice job for two seasons

    What about the 29 games played this season?

  24. #68
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    What about the 29 games played this season?
    This years team is a complete mess, that is rather obvious. I would probably give O'Brien a B+ two years ago, an A- last season and a D this season

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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This years team is a complete mess, that is rather obvious. I would probably give O'Brien a B+ two years ago, an A- last season and a D this season
    Yeah, he would earn a B so far this year, but has failed to find his best rotation. We have turned it around defensively from the previous years. Sadly, he has lost the offense somewhere along the way, so D it is.

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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    I'm guessing that there are things that Bird and the FO sees and is privy to when it comes to the Team during Practice and off-court activities that the Public and the Press is not aware of.......so there may be others reasons as to why Bird said what he said. So, I can agree with Bird that some blame can be placed on the Players themselves for where we stand.

    However, I refuse to believe that the Coaching Staff does not share ANY blame at all for where we are right now. What amount of blame falls on the Coach and how much falls on the Players....I do not know.....but I do feel that there is a certain amount of inflexibility and rigidness with in-game decision making that has affected how the Team performs along with a lack of consistency that is preached by the Coaching Staff to some players but not all.

    I do see a lack of effort on the part of Players.....so, I'm not going to ignore that the notion that Players should not share any blame in this ( I've seen more effort and a "never say die" attitude from a much younger and less experienced Team like the Kings ).....but for Bird to ignore that there may not be other factors that could explain where we are now is simply burying your Head in the sand. Maybe this is part of the way that Bird operates.....maybe he has a belief that the FO must ALWAYS back the Coach no matter what....or worse, maybe there is an unwillingness to acknowledge that they may have made a mistake in extending JO'B.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    The Houston Rockets called and told JOB and Bird to freaking man up already. The Pacers have about as much input from Yao and TMac this year as the Rockets do. Houston is flipping 18-13 right now with guys like Brooks, Scola, Ariza, and Battier...oh, and somehow they find a way to get low draft picks like Landry and Budinger significant playing time without losing as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    Yeah, but aren't those guys way more talented than the Pacers role-players? In my view they certainly are. I mean, with Yao and McGrady the Rockets would be contenders and certainly a top-6 team in the league. With Granger and Dunleavy, the Pacers would have a chance of fighting for the playoffs, but by no means they'd be a shoe in. Without their top 2 players, the Rockets can still make the playoffs but they have no chance of making a run; the Pacers become a bottom dweller.
    If not the Rockets....then consider the Kings. They have shown more effort and teamwork with their Team under a New Coach ( minus their best Player in KMart ) then the Pacers have....and have done it with 5 more wins under their belt and have shown that they have far more promise then the Pacers at this point.

    Of course, having who many consider to be a leading ROY candidate on your roster helps....but ( based off of what I have heard from Kings Radio) having a Coach that is willing to making minor adjustments to his Offense/Defense based off of what he has seen from his Players probably has helped.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-29-2009 at 02:51 AM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  28. #72
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Here's Bird's real dilemma:

    He brought in both this coach and nearly all these players. There is debate as to the GSW trade for Dun and Troy, generally it's considered a Bird deal whenever Dun or Troy play great or when Jackson acts up, otherwise it's apparently all Walsh.
    Never never never did this deal come anywhere near Bird. It was all Walsh, not even DOCTORS were consulted. The reports have been consistent and never wavering that Walsh did this deal all by his lonesome. I don't know who's switching back and forth, but whoever it is doesn't have the facts.
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I've got the pitch fork. Who has the tar n feathers?
    We can get that from one of brothers that lives in a rual area
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    Ha I forgot I asked that question last night for today's chat! Thanks for the reminder
    What I find the most disheartening is that the majority of the other writers/experts in other areas all see the dysfunction that is the PAcers, yet Bird is defiant in saying that things are on course?

    So I either Boird is a genius that the rest of the experts/fans cant understand

    or he is lost in his job
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    Default Re: Star: O'Brien's job is secure

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Never never never did this deal come anywhere near Bird. It was all Walsh, not even DOCTORS were consulted. The reports have been consistent and never wavering that Walsh did this deal all by his lonesome. I don't know who's switching back and forth, but whoever it is doesn't have the facts.
    LA,

    I dont have any quote or story to back this up but even if Walsh was the deciding vote, I have a very hard time beleiving that Bird was unaware of the trade. In fact, I think he was a driving force behind it

    Again thats speculation on my part but I go off Birds track record like drafting Crosher and then giving him an absurd contract based off of one playoff
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