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Thread: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
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    Solo's a bum, no way JOb is that stupid, or is he? Or, am I for thinking Solo's a bum?
    I don't think Solo is a bum. Don't get me wrong - he's no world beater either. He is somewhat of a defensive presence in the paint - just under a block per game this season (.8) in limited time (14.7 mpg). He is averaging a little over 3 rebounds (3.2), a little over 4 points (4.2). He has a reliable face-up mid-range jumper, probably the best of our big men in that category.

    You're right that he's not big or strong enough to be a real center but in certain situations he could play a little C. I'd like to see him get consistent playing time so that we really know what we have there, but that's not new...most of the board wants that for the young guys and there isn't enough to go 'round without severely limiting the time given to the vets.
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  2. #52
    Member MikeDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    He hasn't "sat" him at all. He's merely lost his starting spot. He averages 25mins a night, and there as only been 3 games all year that he's been under 20mins.

    And like I mentioned before, he has/had been closing games out as well. Who has the quote about it's not who starts but who finishes?
    Well, in fairness Ford is probably the most salvageable of the guys we have that aren't playing well. He's playing well under his career averages, and the guy is actually only 26 years old. Unless he breaks his spine again, he's got a lot of ball ahead of him.

    From that perspective, it'd be bad to completely give up on him, and a case could probably be made that he ought to be getting the same sort of "development" minutes people expect for Tyler or Hibbert.

    That's a pretty good stat to rebuttle with (if it was even true, which it's not), when you leave out the fact that Danny has misssed 12 games, Troy 6, Mike 13, and Foster 13. Those are the guys with the most tenure (outside of Diener who hasn't played at all).
    But you can't leave out that fact. It's a fact.

    When those guys are healthy, they are the first options. There is no disputing that. JOb has publicly admitted such, when he said he was going to rely on his vets more.

    EDIT: And looking at min/g totals, no wonder what is wrong with Mike. How many games was he under the 20min limit? He's up to averaging almost 24min now.
    Well yeah, he's going to have to play his way into shape. What's the alternative? You never play him and he never gets better?

    As far as the vets, I just don't see who we're missing out on by playing them. Especially when you factor in the injuries, the kids get plenty of time. They just aren't all that great.

    I think in my ideal world, I'd probably play Ford more and Hibbert more, but that's about it.

  3. #53
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
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    Right, but you also dont want to shelf them and make it appear there is something else underlying wrong with them. Especially since they are both pretty much at the top of their value at this point. Sell high!
    Did Troy ever have higher value than he did this last summer? No.

    Is he traded at this point? No.

    End of discussion. He got showcased, it didn't work, now his main value is as an expiring deal next year. And if anything his play this year has hurt more than helped, his value is decreasing by the game.


    Same for Ford, although he took a value hit when he was sent to the bench. However I'd argue that in that period he made a good case for himself as Jason Terry and had to still be carrying decent trade value himself this summer.

    Of course the draft was loaded with PG picks so no one wanted him. Those picks need 2-3 years to flop which means he's still stuck behind them for any team that grabbed one.

    Add to this Bayless possibly moving into the mix, either in POR or traded, and Patty Mills eventually returning, plus at least John Wall, and you have a long list of teams developing PGs or already with strong PGs.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    I just think Solo looks incredibily lost out there. When he knows where to rotate on defense he is really solid. He has the potential to be a solid help defender in JOb's system. He's good at blocking shots off the ball. One-on-one he looks like our worst defender in the post.

    To me at least. He gets pushed around, and gets scored on at will. He can knock down shot from the key, but is hardly our best big man from there. Murphy is the best. His rebounding is sub-par. His shot blocking is not as effective as Hibbert's. He's turnover prone(clumsy). He's a slight
    downgrade from Hibbert.

    I think McRoberts could do better than Jones. McRoberts gives you the same things Solo does, but with dribbling and passing skills. The fact he has the green to shoot three's shows that he is a better shooter than Solo. He shouldn't take three's though. He works off the ball leading to a few ally-opps. We have this guy and do nothing develop him. The guy plays hard and with confidence, something I don't see in Soloman.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I think we can all agree Roy is the most likely casualty of the starting lineup.

    I wouldn't be totally surprised if he gives Tyler a go so Murphy can play "center".

    WetBob's theory of Solomon isn't a bad one, either.

    I doubt TJ starts, even with the speed comments. JOB made it pretty clear that he'd given TJ a long rope that eventually ran out, and now Watson has the long rope ahead of him.
    Probably true with Watson, I do think we've seen him finally show frustration with his game and really bite into some of his PT when he used to not do that.

    Problem with Solo is that he's not good enough on offense for JOB. He finally brought him back when he kinda went with the youth movement slightly (Roy, Rush decent PT, Solo back on the floor, TJ role reduced), but he didn't really run him for long stretches and IMO has starting getting the short leash with him again.

    Frankly while I like Solo and insist that at times he must play, he isn't a starter and not quite as good as I think Peck and I saw at the preseason opener when we were both a bit thrilled with his physicality.

    But Solo is a shot blocking specialist who does give you something of a defensive bump for a bit. That's why you keep rolling him into the game at spots.



    Roy and Rush have struggled, partially trying to understand what's expected of them which kills both of them when it comes to confidence. We all know that's probably their biggest weakpoint.

    BUT IMO this is the pain a coach must live with if he wants to have a better team in the long run. That's one of my issues here. The team isn't winning without them, so why does it hurt so much to lose with them? Roy and Rush can get better, we've seen them play solid games way too many times to just be random flukes.


    If team speed means Dun at SF then I don't know what the hell is going on. TJ is your fastest PG. I don't want him out there much, but that's the truth. Rush and DJones at 2 and 3 are your quickest pair there. Hans at PF (or Dun perhaps). Solo or Foster at the 5, though my guess is Troy starts at center for awhile.

    I think "speed" is just a shot at Roy and the low post game in general. He tried it for maybe 5-6 games and that's enough for his tastes. He couldn't make it work and he hated living with it. IMO of course.



    McRoberts - I obviously 100% agree about his skills being overall higher than Solo, especially the obvious dribbling and passing. But then I'm the idiot that thinks he's also better than Hans and is stumped why his few good games were followed by Siberia, as if some secret about his skills was going to leak out.

    McBob and Price are the main two players who have not been allowed to play their way back to the bench. Rush, Roy, can't argue that they've been looked over pretty good at this point. Hans has gotten tons of time. Solo is a bit lower but has had a return and is starting to rack up PT.

    When did this team become so good and those guys so old or worthless to have proven themselves totally unworthy of any PT ever?
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 12-29-2009 at 02:45 PM.

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  8. #56
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
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    I just think Solo looks incredibily lost out there. When he knows where to rotate on defense he is really solid. He has the potential to be a solid help defender in JOb's system. He's good at blocking shots off the ball. One-on-one he looks like our worst defender in the post.

    To me at least. He gets pushed around, and gets scored on at will. He can knock down shot from the key, but is hardly our best big man from there. Murphy is the best. His rebounding is sub-par. His shot blocking is not as effective as Hibbert's. He's turnover prone(clumsy). He's a slight
    downgrade from Hibbert.

    I think McRoberts could do better than Jones. McRoberts gives you the same things Solo does, but with dribbling and passing skills. The fact he has the green to shoot three's shows that he is a better shooter than Solo. He shouldn't take three's though. He works off the ball leading to a few ally-opps. We have this guy and do nothing develop him. The guy plays hard and with confidence, something I don't see in Soloman.
    I'm not sure that Solo is worse than Murph one on one defensively in the paint. Maybe. Also not entirely convinced Murph has a better mid-range jumper. He's clearly a better shooter but he generally shoots long-range jumpers or, this year, he drives toward the basket. He can probably make the mid-range J, but he doesn't take very many of them so I don't know if he's better.

    You're right that he looks lost at times. I wonder how much of that his playing time and how much of it is that all our young guys look pretty lost at times. I don't think JOB is a good coach for young players at all for a variety of reasons well-documented in many threads. But I'm getting off track. To my mind, McBob has looked plenty lost too and his FG% in limited minutes this season - 33% - is quite a bit worse than Solo's (48%). That may be because he hasn't played enough time to really get in a rhythm, but McRoberts career shooting numbers (42.9% vs. 52.6%) are also quite a bit worse. However, I do concede that McRoberts is clearly a superior passer/ball handler.

    All that said, I'm not adverse to seeing McRoberts get some floor time. I don't feel like either one of them has been on the floor enough to really know what they've got to contribute consistently in games. Hell, I doubt either of them really knows, considering how little they've played so far in their careers.
    Last edited by gummy; 12-29-2009 at 02:56 PM.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    Michael Pina, Red94: "There are so many different ways the Pacers can beat you. They have an All-Star scoring threat, imposing figures on the front line, steady point guard play, and most importantly, a defense that'll choke the life out of just about every offense that crosses its path."

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Maybe speed means Watson and TJ, starting together. I guess that could mean AJ Price being back up Point Guard.

    However, I think Obie was absolutely talking about Roy, when he said this.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Maybe speed means Watson and TJ, starting together. I guess that could mean AJ Price being back up Point Guard.

    However, I think Obie was absolutely talking about Roy, when he said this.
    Yea, when things go wrong, Obie tends to blame Roy.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    If I were Roy, I'd be PO'ed that he's JOB's punching bag.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
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    I do believe that when we aquired TJ we hoped for a good player, but also that it set us up to have over 30 million in expirings for a FA revamping. Do you honestly believe that idea never when through a business man's mind before making the deal? You say it like I believe that's the only reason we traded for Ford. Well, no. JO was the main reason we got TJ. It just worked well for us in the long run, so we pulled the trigger.
    They 100% are not going into the FA market. Why does anyone think this?

    All this "just wait till contracts come off the books" stuff has been slammed long ago with great posts and threads by people like Count.


    Those contracts coming off the books only puts the team into a SAFE salary range with some flexability for trading or minor signings as needed. The FA market for top end guys is a disaster nearly every time. What team has ever signed one of the top 4-5 guys on the market, the $8m+ type of guys, and gotten their money's worth?

    Does anyone think Peja was a fair pay? Or even Brad Miller?

    How many top tier FA's led their team to titles? Give me Kobe for Divac, Shaq for 4 Heat players, KG for Jefferson or the Lebron, Wade, Duncan picks.

    Right now Hedo/Jack and ChuckV/Gordon have their new teams doing nothing special.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Yea, when things go wrong, Obie tends to blame Roy.

    Easy target, nice kid, works hard, doesn't get indignant. I mean he certainly has his flaws, but he also isn't the main or only problem.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Did Troy ever have higher value than he did this last summer? No.

    Is he traded at this point? No.

    End of discussion. He got showcased, it didn't work, now his main value is as an expiring deal next year. And if anything his play this year has hurt more than helped, his value is decreasing by the game.


    Same for Ford, although he took a value hit when he was sent to the bench. However I'd argue that in that period he made a good case for himself as Jason Terry and had to still be carrying decent trade value himself this summer.

    Of course the draft was loaded with PG picks so no one wanted him. Those picks need 2-3 years to flop which means he's still stuck behind them for any team that grabbed one.

    Add to this Bayless possibly moving into the mix, either in POR or traded, and Patty Mills eventually returning, plus at least John Wall, and you have a long list of teams developing PGs or already with strong PGs.
    But another caveat to this discussion is that they are closer to the end of their contract, so as their stat value might dissipate, their expiring contracts keep their trade value up!

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    So there you go:

    PG: Ford
    SG: D. Jones
    SF: Dunleavy
    PF: Murphy
    C: S. Jones

    **shudders**
    Nailed it.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    WTF will Solo replacing Roy do? Less rebounding, less offense, less movement, kill Roys confidence... Oh wait! We have someone to pick up TMurdaourdefenses' slack on defense .
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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