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Thread: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDC View Post
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    OK, but as far as I can tell:
    1. He's already sat TJ.
    2. If we sit those players we'll never be able to trade them, and we need to get them out of here. Thus they need to demonstrate they can play.
    3. The younger/newer guys are leading the team in minutes played.
    4. I'm not a very big fan of most of the younger guys. To be honest, I don't think there's a lot there to develop in Rush. The Jones guys are pretty much what they are. I don't see a lot of development happening there.

    So that leaves Tyler and Hibbert. Tyler's getting significant and fairly regular minutes. He's not encouraging me at least. Hibbert is the only one of the younger guys I'd quibble with. I'd like to see him get a more steady flow of minutes, but big guys are slow to come along and it's tough to play him against some teams in any case because he's not exactly quick.

    So at the end of the day, I just look at this bunch of guys and think it's not all that great and a new coach isn't going to fix it.
    The problem with JOB IMO is, he has sat T.J but you can't sit T.J and then not play A.J, it defeats the purpose. T.J is not the problem anyway. The 5 game win starting lineup of Ford, Rush ,Hibbert, Granger, Jones (with the one exception of the Boston game where Watson started) has been absent since the very reason we have started losing and losing bad returned from the Injured list. Heck when we traded for Murph and Dunleavy from GS they had already both been relegated to the bench even though they were high paid players. We had to be asaged with the notion that we had made the trade to get Diogu. I feel Murph and Dun have both become players who accept losing. How often do you see either diving after lose balls? The problem is they occupy a leadership role on the team due to those high salaries and one good statistical season each which didn't translate into wins.
    Murph and Dun have both been in the league for at least 7 years and at 82 games per season thats a whole lot of getting used to losing. JOB has got to try sitting Murph and Dunleavy for extended periods. I doubt that he will because he and Murph are a couple Jersey guys and they stick together. You from Jersey?...I'm from Jersey!!!
    Last edited by HOOPFANATIC; 12-28-2009 at 07:20 PM.
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDC View Post
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    OK, but as far as I can tell:
    1. He's already sat TJ.
    He hasn't "sat" him at all. He's merely lost his starting spot. He averages 25mins a night, and there as only been 3 games all year that he's been under 20mins.

    And like I mentioned before, he has/had been closing games out as well. Who has the quote about it's not who starts but who finishes?


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDC View Post
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    3. The younger/newer guys are leading the team in minutes played.
    That's a pretty good stat to rebuttle with (if it was even true, which it's not), when you leave out the fact that Danny has misssed 12 games, Troy 6, Mike 13, and Foster 13. Those are the guys with the most tenure (outside of Diener who hasn't played at all).

    When those guys are healthy, they are the first options. There is no disputing that. JOb has publicly admitted such, when he said he was going to rely on his vets more.

    EDIT: And looking at min/g totals, no wonder what is wrong with Mike. How many games was he under the 20min limit? He's up to averaging almost 24min now.

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_d...ame_stats.html

    Look at his stats compared to minutes, and tell me there's not a direct correlation. The guy needs rest. Without looking at the stats it was blantantly obvious. But that's JOb for you. Play em til they drop dead because vets have magical pixy dust that makes them so much better.

    I love Mike as a player, but resting him more is what is best for both Mike and the franchise.
    Last edited by Since86; 12-29-2009 at 09:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    That's a pretty good stat to rebuttle with (if it was even true, which it's not), when you leave out the fact that Danny has misssed 12 games, Troy 6, Mike 13, and Foster 13. Those are the guys with the most tenure (outside of Diener who hasn't played at all).
    I think you play the vets when they are achieving something, meaning a healthy Granger and a healthy Foster have to see time on the court (we have really missed Foster as a D specialist). I think you sit Mike because he isn't in shape to play yet, then see if he is adding something (before he hit the wall he definitely was). I think Troy is starting to add something (his defense has improved, he isn't perfect but he was doing fairly well, he's starting to hit his shots), so sitting him has more to do with his effect on the rest of the team than his personal contributions. I DO NOT think he has earned the number of minutes he is getting nor am I fond of the combinations he is in.

    As I have said often and will probably continue to say, you neither help your young guys or have a good locker room atmosphere if you sit vets who are playing well for the sole reason that they are "too old". Trade them for other young guys if you must, though it means you have no vet presence on the team, but don't teach players that you don't have to earn your way onto the floor.
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  4. #29

    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Why fire JOB now and have to pay two head coaches for what is clearly going to turn out to be a terrible season? That makes no sense. I say let him tank it until this contract is up so we can get a couple of high draft picks prior to dropping Murphy/Ford/Dunleavy's contracts and having a chance at some actual talent in free agency...

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Obviously you don't sit them because they're "too old." You sit them because they're 4-19 (?).

    Since day 1, JOb has always said that you earn your playing time. Well JO didn't practice, yet played the same as always, and that trend has continued to the present. Then AJ comes in the game, when Watson was out, and plays extremely well. JOb then sends out the quote that AJ routinely out performs the vets in practice, and that he needs to find away for him to get in the game. Outside of the Miami game, that hasn't happened. So what's the message there? Losing doesn't help good locker room atmosphere and neither does mixed messages.

    JOb is a walking contradiction, and I hate it.

    EDIT: I'm not saying that Troy should be completely benched. I'm saying there's no way on God's green Earth he should be getting nearly 32mins a night. He needs to be cut down to the 20-24min range.
    Last edited by Since86; 12-29-2009 at 11:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by bphil View Post
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    Why fire JOB now and have to pay two head coaches for what is clearly going to turn out to be a terrible season? That makes no sense. I say let him tank it until this contract is up so we can get a couple of high draft picks prior to dropping Murphy/Ford/Dunleavy's contracts and having a chance at some actual talent in free agency...
    Uhhhh.....

    That's what most of us were saying LAST season, you know, before they gave him an EXTENSION.

  8. #32
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Obviously you don't sit them because they're "too old." You sit them because they're 4-19 (?).

    Since day 1, JOb has always said that you earn your playing time. Well JO didn't practice, yet played the same as always, and that trend has continued to the present. Then AJ comes in the game, when Watson was out, and plays extremely well. JOb then sends out the quote that AJ routinely out performs the vets in practice, and that he needs to find away for him to get in the game. Outside of the Miami game, that hasn't happened. So what's the message there? Losing doesn't help good locker room atmosphere and neither does mixed messages.

    JOb is a walking contradiction, and I hate it.

    EDIT: I'm not saying that Troy should be completely benched. I'm saying there's no way on God's green Earth he should be getting nearly 32mins a night. He needs to be cut down to the 20-24min range.


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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDC View Post
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    2. If we sit those players we'll never be able to trade them, and we need to get them out of here.
    You've touched on something Ive been thinking about for a while. JOB might be more of a corporate "yes" man, in that, he is being told to showcase the guys (i.e. Ford, Murphy, DunDun) that TPTB want traded by next year. Hopefully we get more for them that way. At the same time we are positioning ourselves for a possible run at John Wall (or the figurative #1 pick at this point). Im hoping thats what they have up their sleeves now since Granger is on the shelf.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    You don't have to showcase Troy Murphy, or TJ Ford. Everyone in the league knows what kind of players they are, and what they are capable of. They aren't mysteries.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You don't have to showcase Troy Murphy, or TJ Ford. Everyone in the league knows what kind of players they are, and what they are capable of. They aren't mysteries.
    Right, but you also dont want to shelf them and make it appear there is something else underlying wrong with them. Especially since they are both pretty much at the top of their value at this point. Sell high!

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You don't have to showcase Troy Murphy, or TJ Ford. Everyone in the league knows what kind of players they are, and what they are capable of. They aren't mysteries.
    Yeah, because of that you just let them expire. All you get for players like this is players like that. We need that money to make some real moves. This collection of mediocre players expiring at the same time was by no mistake. I don't think we should forget that, so trading Murphy, Dun and Ford must be low on the list. Of course that is unless they can actually rob another teams talent.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
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    Right, but you also dont want to shelf them and make it appear there is something else underlying wrong with them. Especially since they are both pretty much at the top of their value at this point. Sell high!
    They aren't going to whither away into dust. It doesn't hurt a players stock when the rest of the league knows you're in rebuilding mode.

    Troy and Ford aren't going to fetch top dollar anyways.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    ... And I think most of us considered that extension a ***** up from the moment we heard about it...
    As did the players.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
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    Yeah, because of that you just let them expire. All you get for players like this is players like that. We need that money to make some real moves. This collection of mediocre players expiring at the same time was by no mistake. I don't think we should forget that, so trading Murphy, Dun and Ford must be low on the list. Of course that is unless they can actually rob another teams talent.
    The best thing about Murphy is that he's an expiring contract. His value won't ever be as high as it will next season. The question is whether or not you think holding on to him that long outweighs what you might get then.

    I'm fine with keeping him around until next year. I'm not fine with him playing 32mins a night.

  17. #40
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Any word on the line up change(s) for tonight?

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Any word on the line up change(s) for tonight?
    Well he said he wants more speed. (He must like you?) Here's my best guess:

    So Hibbert is out. If Foster was healthy it'd be him, but I'm gonna go outside the box and guess Solomon Jones gets the nod.

    Watson is not as fast as Ford, obviously, so TJ it is.

    I would think Dahntay Jones would start at the 2.

    Dunleavy looks awful, but I see no reason why JOB won't start him.

    As we all know Murphy is the next Usain Bolt, he can't go anywhere.

    So there you go:

    PG: Ford
    SG: D. Jones
    SF: Dunleavy
    PF: Murphy
    C: S. Jones

    **shudders**

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The best thing about Murphy is that he's an expiring contract. His value won't ever be as high as it will next season. The question is whether or not you think holding on to him that long outweighs what you might get then.

    I'm fine with keeping him around until next year. I'm not fine with him playing 32mins a night.
    I understand your pain, but even next year Murphy will not bring much in return on a trade. If a team is interested in his expiring contract what would we get? Most likely we'll get a long-term contract for a player that we don't need. Murphy's expiring should hold more value to us than a trade does.

  20. #43
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Bird said he has no intention of changing coaches. If anything changes it will be the roster.

    Anybody wanting serious changes are in for a long wait.
    I think that was quite obvious when Bird picked up JOB's option
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Any word on the line up change(s) for tonight?
    Haha, you know Jim's got something brewing game-by-game. His most glaring weakness, in my opinion.

  22. #45
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    I think we can all agree Roy is the most likely casualty of the starting lineup.

    I wouldn't be totally surprised if he gives Tyler a go so Murphy can play "center".

    WetBob's theory of Solomon isn't a bad one, either.

    I doubt TJ starts, even with the speed comments. JOB made it pretty clear that he'd given TJ a long rope that eventually ran out, and now Watson has the long rope ahead of him.

  23. #46

    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmCeE View Post
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    This collection of mediocre players expiring at the same time was by no mistake.

    Yeah, collecting Dun and Murphy with 4 years left on their contracts was no mistake! A case of future planning at the time? Ford had 3 years left on his contract and the Pacers traded for him so that his contract expires at the same time as Dun and Murph. I hope this is a joke, and you truly don't believe it.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    PG: Ford
    SG: D. Jones
    SF: Dunleavy
    PF: Murphy
    C: S. Jones

    **shudders**
    Ford in sounds right. Solo's a bum, no way JOb is that stupid, or is he? Or, am I for thinking Solo's a bum? Who knows. I do know I'll be in the minority here when I say Murphy and Hansborough should start. Roy and a combination of Josh and Solo at PF of the bench. Solo is long, but VERY weak. He is not a Center. Neither is Troy, but we have no defense from that position anyway, so how bout' some shooting and defensive rebounding instead.

    Id like to see Dunleavy back on the pine to start games replaced by Rush for defensive reasons.

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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Yeah, collecting Dun and Murphy with 4 years left on their contracts was no mistake! A case of future planning at the time? Ford had 3 years left on his contract and the Pacers traded for him so that his contract expires at the same time as Dun and Murph. I hope this is a joke, and you truly don't believe it.
    I do believe that when we aquired TJ we hoped for a good player, but also that it set us up to have over 30 million in expirings for a FA revamping. Do you honestly believe that idea never when through a business man's mind before making the deal? You say it like I believe that's the only reason we traded for Ford. Well, no. JO was the main reason we got TJ. It just worked well for us in the long run, so we pulled the trigger.

  26. #49
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    JOB made it pretty clear that he'd given TJ a long rope that eventually ran out, and now Watson has the long rope ahead of him.
    Yes, and if you're still expecting JOB's actions to match up with his words at this point (especially when he has been very clear) this makes perfect sense. I no longer know for sure what to expect so I'll believe it when I see it!
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  27. #50
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    Default Re: Mike Wells just tweeted the following.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You don't have to showcase Troy Murphy, or TJ Ford. Everyone in the league knows what kind of players they are, and what they are capable of. They aren't mysteries.
    Well, you don't have to showcase them, but you obviously get more for them if they're out throwing out double-doubles than if they're getting DNPs.

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