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Thread: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

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    Default Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    It is pretty obvious the salary gaurantees in the NBA are ridiculous. We have three playes who account for like 30 million of our Salary. Without those three players playing a single minute, we are instantly a better team, with a healthy Granger of course.

    We SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY Tinsley anymore money, but because of gauranteed contracts we have to. It is bologna.

    Of course our backups are pissed. They are better players and they are making a tenth of what these players do, and are loosing out on minutes "because money don't sit, espescially not that kind of money." We actually have to pay them another year STILL for this terrible play?

    I'm about to give up on the NBA because this isn't fair to our team or our bench players. It's funny that rules to protect players, are actually hurting ALL of our players other than 3 named and Tinsley.

    This is exactly why the only way I can think of maintaining sanity these next few years is to become ignorant of the fact the Pacers suck, and just tune them out.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    We just need to be smarter and understand the cap situation and not take long contracts of old players, and use our 2nd round pick well.

    For example SA got RJ for a sack of crap, and OKC got Eric Maynor and Matt Harpring for nothing.

    For example on how to **** up, LAC got Randolph, and old cancer, and he ruined their season. Or Toronto signing Hedo Turkoglu for a HIDEOUS price. Or when the Suns acquired Shaq, and closed their window.

    And SA got Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, DeJuan Blair, and Ian Mahimni with late picks. AJ and Josh definitely are plusses, but we need more.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    At no point will I never stop being amazed at fans' utter refusal to blame management for the cap problems the pacers get into so often.

    You do not see this with most NBA teams. Then again, most teams don't insist on signing multiple players to costly long-term deals at once.

    Also, don't give me that crap about high paid players not being benched, when we already have the highest paid player in the entire freaking league not even dressing for games because the coach feels other players fit the team better. There is a list a mile long of big money players not getting a lot of time.

    Here's a reality check: the NBA isn't hurting this Pacers team. This Pacers team is hurting this Pacers team, from the management on down.
    Last edited by Kstat; 12-28-2009 at 12:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    At no point will I never stop being amazed at fans' utter refusal to blame management for the cap problems the pacers get into so often.

    You do not see this with most NBA teams. Then again, most teams don't insist on signing multiple players to costly long-term deals at once.
    Didn't I just address that? I wasn't refusing to blame, I was doing the opposite.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Well said Kstat. No one put a gun to our heads and made us make the Murphleavy trade, sign Tinsley or trade for Ford. Those moves are largely why this team is hideous to watch.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    Didn't I just address that? I wasn't refusing to blame, I was doing the opposite.
    I was addressing the original post, not you. You had it right.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I was addressing the original post, not you. You had it right.
    Ok, I thought you misread me or something.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    No one put a gun to our heads and made us make the Murphleavy trade, sign Tinsley or trade for Ford. Those moves are largely why this team is hideous to watch.
    Really. We had to get rid of jackson, JO and Tinsley and Artest for that matter. So yes a gun was pointed to our heads. I suppose you could argue we should have traded for other players. But regardless trades were neded

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Really. We had to get rid of jackson, JO and Tinsley and Artest for that matter. So yes a gun was pointed to our heads. I suppose you could argue we should have traded for other players. But regardless trades were neded
    True, but unfortunately the 4 years remaining on their deals when Dun & Murph came over is what is holding us back now in terms of new talent. But again your right we did have to move Jackson. I just wish it would worked out better in terms of years left on contracts of the players we got. I can't remember how much was left on Al and Jacks deals at that time. It seems everyone we have moved has or is enjoying the playoffs since leaving us, and we have to wait, that is what is so maddening about it.

    Dun and Murph are NBA quality players, but their lack of defense, length and size of their deals is at the root of our problems. I know those deals will become more valuable in a trade as we move forward, but that just means more waiting.
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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    The real reason is political, but of course that is unacceptable here at this esteemed forum.

  13. #11

    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    The argument can be made that is or isn't the managements' fault, because of the brawl, and basically players actions leaving us no other choice.

    I'm just really sick of paying four players 35 million dollars to drive our franchise into the ground. Which is over half of our cap space by the way.

    I guess I really can't blame TJ, Tinsley, Murphy, and Dunleavy for being smart and getting good deals for themselves, but I can blame the brawl players for sure.

    The brawl was a rare instance in sports. So rare that our franchise should have been spared of the normal rules. All the players came out clean, the fans are the ones who have had to bear the burden. It wasn't fair to the great fanbase we once had.

    Sure you can point the blame all you want but the brawl players still got paid, and the trades, we were forced to make them by the media/pitchforkers. It all boils down to the players actions. They all had gauranteed contracts. We had two choices. Pay them or trade them. We should have been smarter and traded for scrubs instead of scrubs with huge salaries I guess.

    So yea I can point the blame both ways. I just am tired of being a fan who is bearing the brunt of our former players actions. I dream for 2011 and I hope that Bird doesn't f--k it up by making the situation worse. Meaning whoever we trade for doesn't have a contract longer than the end of 2010-2011 season.

  14. #12

    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    Well said Kstat. No one put a gun to our heads and made us make the Murphleavy trade, sign Tinsley or trade for Ford. Those moves are largely why this team is hideous to watch.
    Ha ha guns and Tinsley in the same sentence. That is just funny to me. Where was the mention of SJack though?

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Walsh liked rewarding guys with big contracts--Tinsley, Bender who hadn't done a thing, JO who got max dollars, and Al who certainly wasn't worth close to $10M/year. So it should come as no surprise that Donnie would trade for 2 guys whose salaries were way beyond what they were worth.

    If Walsh had just waived Jackson we would be better off now.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    If Walsh had just waived Jackson we would be better off now.
    This is amazingly correct. It would have saved us a lot of change...and you know what we have is certainly not what we want. ...and honestly, Harrington is just as good (or bad) as Murphy.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    And if we hadn't given such a large extension to the older Tinjury. A fringe starter at best.

    Or Bender, who never proved anything.

    Or trading for Marquis.

    Or that dumb Foster extension.

    Or that dumb JOB extension.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    This is amazingly correct. It would have saved us a lot of change...and you know what we have is certainly not what we want. ...and honestly, Harrington is just as good (or bad) as Murphy.
    I would rather have Murphy. Pacers dont need a power forward like Harrington who loves to jack up the three and take a lot of stupid shots; and not play a lick of defence or pull rebounds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    And if we hadn't given such a large extension to the older Tinjury. A fringe starter at best.
    Tins was better than a 'fringe starter'. I think peoples opinion of Tins as a person hinders their perception of his basketball ability..

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    Or trading for Marquis.
    I thought this was a good trade. I'd rather have Quis than Croshere.
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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Tinsley played no defense, that alone makes him a fringe starter. He also has no jumper or athleticism.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    10 points and 7 assists a game makes Tins a starter.

    So a guy averaging over 1.5 steals per game plays no defense? Again I think his 'no defense' thing is overhyped. From what Ive seen Tins is an ok defender though he'll use his hands to reach instead of getting into good position, he's a decent enough help defender and does drop down to double in the post, and usually sontests shots.
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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    It's a losing proposition to attempt to talk about Tinsley with any kind of rationality on this board, Haggard. You just have to accept certain people hate everything about him based on their belief of the kind of person he is...

    You'd think they'd be able to let it go now, it's over a year removed, he's gone, playing in a different conference and out of Indiana's hair, but I guess some things are hard to release.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    It's a losing proposition to attempt to talk about Tinsley with any kind of rationality on this board, Haggard. You just have to accept certain people hate everything about him based on their belief of the kind of person he is...

    You'd think they'd be able to let it go now, it's over a year removed, he's gone, playing in a different conference and out of Indiana's hair, but I guess some things are hard to release.
    I never hated Tinsley. He was a fun player to watch. But I'm being rational, Tinsley is no real starter on a championship team.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    You know, we always could have stood pat and done nothing and then had essentially the same outcome as the locker room sank slowly into poison and so failed to have any major winning seasons and the fans actively expressed their hostility to the team.

    Then we could have all screamed about Donnie and Larry Do-Nothing and why didn't they get rid of those players for a bag of Doritos and a Pepsi.
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    Default Re: Equal Pay for Equal Play, why the Pacers loose

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    You know, we always could have stood pat and done nothing and then had essentially the same outcome as the locker room sank slowly into poison and so failed to have any major winning seasons and the fans actively expressed their hostility to the team.

    Then we could have all screamed about Donnie and Larry Do-Nothing and why didn't they get rid of those players for a bag of Doritos and a Pepsi.
    This is exactly why Bird isn't listening to the fans anymore. He might drown us, but he shouldn't listen to fans anyway.

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