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Thread: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

  1. #26
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    I'm sorry, Buck. I knew you'd made the distinction, but I was remembering it wrong. I wasn't meaning to question your point, but only to quote it and I got your point backwards.

    I went back and modified my earlier post to reflect the point as you've made it. Sorry for misremembering, and for confusing the thread
    ..
    Now I'm more confused than ever....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

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  2. #27

    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Now I'm more confused than ever....

    Just put me on IGNORE.



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    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  3. #28
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    So we had effort last year but not this year? So what is that telling us?
    I'll take a crack at that.

    Yes, as UB says, the team was coached well last year, had great movement, put forth great effort . . . . and won 36 games.

    This year, the players know intuitively that the current system and philosophy will not lead to a winning record, no matter how well you execute or how hard you try.

    Intuititively, these players trained at Duke, Kansas, and North Carolina are leaning toward a more defensive-minded team. In fact, Obie pushed for it over the summer.

    The problem is that Obie is double-minded. He talks this way, but constantly knee-jerks back to high offense and leans toward poor defensive players that provide high offense.

    The other players are trying to be more consistent in the transition. Thus the problems. Thus the "lack of effort" which is really confusion and dissillusion.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  4. #29
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Just put me on IGNORE.



    .
    I refuse....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  5. #30
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    So we had effort last year but not this year? So what is that telling us?

    EDIT: You might be explaining it perfectly well but I'm just dense and not seeing it.
    This years team has bad chemistry. Mike Wells thinks it is bad player chemistry, many others think the relationship between the coach and players has broken down, hence the term the player have tuned the coach out, the coach has lost the players etc.

    Probably it is a little bit of both, the mix just isn't right this year - even though they have a very low talent level, they fail a lot more often than last year to maximize that talent level.

    Something just isn't right with this years team - there are some issues that there weren't last year. I think that we see it borne out by the high number of times this years team gets blown out. You don't lose by 40 points if you are an NBA team that is playing hard - playing the right way.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-05-2010 at 09:16 AM.

  6. #31
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This years team has bad chemistry. Mike Wells thinks it is bad player chemistry, many others think the relationship between the coach and players has broken down, hence the term the player have tuned the coach out, the coach has lost the players etc.

    Probably it is a little bit of both, the mix just isn't right this year - even though they have a very low talent level, they fail a lot more often than last year to maximize that talent level.

    Something just isn't right with this years team - there are some issues that there weren't last year. I think that we see it borne out by the high number of times this years team gets blown out. You don't lose by 40 points if you are an NBA team that is playing hard - playing the right way.
    It seems like the last few games where we got massacred in the first quarter were related a good bit to Mike Dunleavy's very odd, terrible play.

    For that, I don't know if anybody has a great explanation. And it has nothing to do with coach or player relations.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  7. #32
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    What does that tell us?
    That we need more ping pong balls than any other team.

    Honestly, the lottery probably should use a stat like this to determine the order of it instead of just W/L.

    A 20-62 team that loses by an average of 15 points per game needs the pick a lot more than a 19-63 team that loses by an average of 2 points per game, for an extreme example.

    It might make it harder to tank, too. You could do it, but it'd probably be more obvious than it is now. Maybe even enough for the league to officially police it. Actually, I think they could right now if they truly wanted to, but I digress.

  8. #33
    International Counter bellisimo's Avatar
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    I remember Kenny Smith making a comment about the Pacers back in the '99-'00 season where we were leading the lead in losing games with a margin under 5pts.

    His thought was "if a team loses in double digits its the fault of the players....if its less than 5pts its the fault of the coach"

    just something else to add into this mix...

  9. #34
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    I remember Kenny Smith making a comment about the Pacers back in the '99-'00 season where we were leading the lead in losing games with a margin under 5pts.

    His thought was "if a team loses in double digits its the fault of the players....if its less than 5pts its the fault of the coach"

    just something else to add into this mix...
    Yeah, Kenny says a lot of crazy things. I'll side with Kevin McHale who agrees with my way of thinking. He says often that coaches can keep a team in a game, but the players have to win it in the end

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  11. #35
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    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    I think that's what Kenny is basically saying, too.

  12. #36

    Default Re: '09/'10 vs. '08/'09

    The correlation between the quality of the team (overall records, point differential) and the winning % in close games is relatively small. Generally, the very best teams in the NBA win about 60% of their close games and the very worst about 40% of them. Obviously there are outliers, but normally when a team starts the season winning a very high percentage of their close games, it's a safe bet to assume they'll start losing them down the road. And vice-versa. Winning close games has a lot to do with luck.

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