As for the Lakers:
2000, 2001, and 2002:
Shaq was a free agent signing. Kobe was the #13 pick.
Kobe was the #13 pick, Gasol was acquired by primarily trading an expiring contract.
Garnett was a trade, and the key piece was Al Jefferson (who was drafted by BOS at #15), Ray Allen was acquired in a trade for the #5 pick (the only time really sucking paid off, and had SEA not been willing to unload their star player, it could have easily been a lesser talent and of course a rookie at that, which hurts the title chances), Rondo was drafted at #21, Pierce was drafted at #10.
So looking at both teams, the vast majority of how those title teams came together had nothing to do with sucking first.
Obviously every team wants to win one, badly. How they do it is another topic.
Actually, I like Bird and have defended him and his actions numerous times. But just saying they are different doesn't make it so.
As for San Antonio:
Obviously sucking got them Tim Duncan, but you know what else did? LUCK. Boston, who sucked even worse, would have gotten him, but lost out in the lottery even with the worse record. So it's not like they were promised Tim Duncan all spring long.
More importantly, they don't win the 2003, 2005, or 2007 titles without Manu Ginobili (picked #57) and Tony Parker (picked #28).
Okay? They trade multiple players to match salaries. Obviously that's paying them market value.
They aren't "buying" anything. They are paying the same amount as they would without said player.
Even the "team" that won a ring, Detroit, had All-Stars. No team will ever win a championship without multiple All-Stars, period.
I enjoyed the Star Wars reference, but it was a terrible analogy, primarily because he mentions that Luke spent three years practicing his craft before taking a second crack at Vader. Luke was young, and needed experience before trying to unseat those in power.
How much better did Yoda get over that time period? Oh, that's right, he died. Obi Wan wouldn't have improved much either. Neither, after those three years, would have been up to the task of tackling Vader.
So, per your own analogy, the correct path is to play the young guys, remove any obstacles (Han Solo/Troy Murphy, Leia/Foster) preventing them from getting the experience they need, and hoping that over time they learn what they need to compete.
Also, Luke didn't "win". For us to have a similar strategy, we'd have to somehow get a bye all the way to the Finals, while our enemies fight amongst themselves.
Anyways, I don't support openly tanking, but I'd rather develop the young guys and lose a lot than bench them and lose a little. Winning is not an option with this squad.
I'll leave you with a quote: "Hard work beats talent when talent refuses to work hard". Otherwise, we need some damn talent that's willing to work hard.
Regardless of Foster's injuries, I think it's safe to say that Roy is the #1 option at center.
At this point, I'm happy if we win, and I'm not at all upset if we lose. I do think a high lottery pick would help us, and if the results on the court are bad enough, it might force Bird/Morway's hand to make some moves to get rid of guys that aren't working (Murphy, Ford). I think we all want what is best for the team, but we all have different ideas on how to get it done.
I didn't say "Well, Bird says so, so it's true" as you would suggest with your post.
I said from top to bottom, anyone involved in the franchise, be it what they say to the press, in person, casually or formally, from Bird, Herb, Morway, to the people who work directly for them in primary positions, to the people who work for those people, the message is always the same. The goal is a championship. They all say the same thing, regardless of when/where you catch them to talk about it or hear them speak about it.
I even attended an event where various folks in the org. met w/ potential future employees and interns, and they showed what they preach to those already working in PS&E/the Pacers, and it includes their biggest goals for the franchise. Of the handful of highest goals above all else, listed clearly in English, was to win the NBA championship.
So no, don't tell me I'm just saying "Bird said it, so it must be so". That's false, misleading, and wrong.
I think anyone who has any kind of real interest in this talentless team is a true fan, whether they want to win now or tank. All untrue or bandwagon fans would of jumpped ship years ago, or just flat out wouldn't care.
sure no problem
I think what I meant is although it is tougher to sign a big time FA to a smaller market it is possible and the examples I said were resigning JO and Granger
As far as attracting a FA that was not ours, difficult yes but has been done before
does that make sense?
Sittin on top of the world!
The only thing I will say to your analogy of a child is sure you want to encourage them but if they are going down the wrong path, and you know a better one from past experience you would tend to try and lead them in the right direction
Sittin on top of the world!
Yes, they haven't been healthy, but will this team ever get healthy. Ford is injury prone, Watson's got a hamstring issue, Danny's got a knee/ankle/foot issue, Dunleavy's got a knee issue, Foster's got a back issue..need I go on?
Those injuries aren't going to go away with two weeks off, they are lingering injuries. They'll be back. So my point, the Pacer's won't be healthy for a prolonged period of time this year, and when they are, the chemistry will be so out of whack, they'll still lose, and that's not to say that they wouldn't lose with that group anyway.
The youngsters might actually lose less, once they learn how to win.
Sittin on top of the world!
Where do you get that? When O'Neal could have left, we offered him the max. If you're thinking of Peja, they were certainly wise not to over spend on him.
I've seen nothing to suggest we won't pay market value for a top player if we have the money to do so.
Also, it's not "the Simons" anymore, sadly.
True, but what do you think the % of likely success would be in trying to replicate their path to that title? The #1 pick in 87, the #3 pick in 89, and the #1 pick in 97. One of the best centers ever and the best power forward ever.
If you promised me we could have the #1 pick this year, AND the #3 pick in 2012 AND the #1 pick in 2020, and you could promise me the #1 picks would turn out to be two of the greatest players of all time, then yeah, I'd be damn curious to see how we looked in 2020-2021.