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Thread: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

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    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
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    Default Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    As a long time Pacer fan , I am now experiencing more frustration than I have since the days of when we had the riffleman and couldnt get to the playoffs.

    This team is flawed in constuction, and is very void of talent. I understand Obie is trying to save his job and will play whomever he thinks gives us the best chance to win. As I said I understand this but do not think this is in the Pacers best interest. For basically the last three years we have been force fed the "wait to all the players get healthy" line . The bottom line with a completely healthy roster, and firing on all cylinders we are still not a playoff team in my opinion.

    I know perverbial wisdom says dont make a reactionary move, but trying to fight and make the playoffs is not working and keeping us forever in the late lotery stage where drafting a star is an extreemly remote chance. If we lost to the Bucks last year then we, not them, would have had the opportunity to chose a potential; all-star like Brandon Jennings.

    The purpose of this thread is not necessarly a debate on "tanking" which I dont agree with but trying to move either Ford/Duns/Murph/ for expirings/draft pick and play the youngsters like Price and Mc Bob to see what you got (by the way why did we even sign McBob , he never gets a chance to play)

    The only way we can escape mediocrity is by having a high loterry pick, and being intelligent about the choice.

    So my question is as a true fan can you root for your team to lose?

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    No.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Member joew8302's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Yes. Constantly having mediocre draft picks and getting the Brandon Rush's of the world will ensure the Pacers will not be relevant in the near future. We must take a path like the Thunder and Grizzlies who built solid foundations though high draft picks. That may not be what many want to hear, but sometimes you have to experience the pain to get the joy.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    It's cheap to cheer your team to lose, because you play these games to win.

    Even though your intentions are not to discuss or condone tanking, it's going to happen.

    I just say keep playing everyone that is producing. Tanking or cheering for your team to lose in order to gain a spot or two in the draft rankings is shallow. More or less a cowards way out of a battle. Don't get me wrong, I am not undervaluing high draft-picks by any means. They are good. But I'd rather get a high draft pick by losing after playing hard than mailing it in.

    Check it, Luke went after Leia and Han and ultimately confronted Vader head on even though he wasn't really prepared. Sure he got his hand chopped off, but he at least tried...even against Yoda's demand. What did he do next? Got a robotic arm and went after Vader again, but with a different strategy. Instead of trying to beat him he tried to change him. Vader turned on the Emperor, threw him down a shaft. Empire defeated and all the Ewoks are happy.

    The story is that nobody gave up here. Even though you get beat you just don't throw in the towel and expect to get better. You have to work on it. That three-year gap between Empire and Jedi, Luke was furthering his training. He wasn't sitting on the couch listening to the Mos Eisley Cantina band on vinyl eating Doritos hoping for a break.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 12-23-2009 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    I never enter into any type of "true fan" discussion

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    The only way we can escape mediocrity is by having a high loterry pick, and being intelligent about the choice.
    David Morway disagrees with you.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Check it, Luke went after Leia and Han and ultimately confronted Vader head on even though he wasn't really prepared. Sure he got his hand chopped off, but he at least tried...even against Yoda's demand. What did he do next? Got a robotic arm and went after Vader again, but with a different strategy. Instead of trying to beat him he tried to change him. Vader turned on the Emperor, threw him down a shaft. Empire defeated and all the Ewoks are happy.

    The story is that nobody gave up here. Even though you get beat you just don't throw in the towel and expect to get better. You have to work on it. That three-year gap between Empire and Jedi, Luke was furthering his training. He wasn't sitting on the couch listening to the Mos Eisley Cantina band on vinyl eating Doritos hoping for a break.
    I don't have anything to add, I just wanted to highlight this.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    David Morway disagrees with you.
    And we see the success Morway has brought the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I don't have anything to add, I just wanted to highlight this.
    Was it that lame?

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    No.
    OK,

    Care to be a bit more substive with your explaniation?
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    A true fan will wish for whatever's best for the long-term interest of the franchise, not just his own instant gratification. With the way the NBA lottery is setup, sometimes that means taking some steps backwards in order to take a big leap forward.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    It's cheap to cheer your team to lose, because you play these games to win.

    Even though your intentions are not to discuss or condone tanking, it's going to happen.

    I just say keep playing everyone that is producing. Tanking or cheering for your team to lose in order to gain a spot or two in the draft rankings is shallow. More or less a cowards way out of a battle. Don't get me wrong, I am not undervaluing high draft-picks by any means. They are good. But I'd rather get a high draft pick by losing after playing hard than mailing it in.

    Check it, Luke went after Leia and Han and ultimately confronted Vader head on even though he wasn't really prepared. Sure he got his hand chopped off, but he at least tried...even against Yoda's demand. What did he do next? Got a robotic arm and went after Vader again, but with a different strategy. Instead of trying to beat him he tried to change him. Vader turned on the Emperor, threw him down a shaft. Empire defeated and all the Ewoks are happy.

    The story is that nobody gave up here. Even though you get beat you just don't throw in the towel and expect to get better. You have to work on it. That three-year gap between Empire and Jedi, Luke was furthering his training. He wasn't sitting on the couch listening to the Mos Eisley Cantina band on vinyl eating Doritos hoping for a break.
    Nice analogy duke,

    I just want change so bad that sometimnes you take 2 steps back to go three steps forward
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    It's cheap to cheer your team to lose, because you play these games to win.

    Even though your intentions are not to discuss or condone tanking, it's going to happen.

    I just say keep playing everyone that is producing. Tanking or cheering for your team to lose in order to gain a spot or two in the draft rankings is shallow. More or less a cowards way out of a battle. Don't get me wrong, I am not undervaluing high draft-picks by any means. They are good. But I'd rather get a high draft pick by losing after playing hard than mailing it in.

    Check it, Luke went after Leia and Han and ultimately confronted Vader head on even though he wasn't really prepared. Sure he got his hand chopped off, but he at least tried...even against Yoda's demand. What did he do next? Got a robotic arm and went after Vader again, but with a different strategy. Instead of trying to beat him he tried to change him. Vader turned on the Emperor, threw him down a shaft. Empire defeated and all the Ewoks are happy.

    The story is that nobody gave up here. Even though you get beat you just don't throw in the towel and expect to get better. You have to work on it. That three-year gap between Empire and Jedi, Luke was furthering his training. He wasn't sitting on the couch listening to the Mos Eisley Cantina band on vinyl eating Doritos hoping for a break.
    There's the solution. Inside of focusing on basketball, they need to start focusing on intergalactic war strategy.

    Sorry, but this is real life, and stories are just that. Stories. They are told without the realm of reality. They can be manipulated into anything you want.


    I have said for years on here that being BAD, and I mean really bad, might just be the best thing for the organization. I've felt that the end goal for organization has always been to just make the playoffs. Compete for a championship? Nope, just make the playoffs.

    Sorry, but being the 10th best team in the league that gets to play 4-7 more games a year than half the league isn't success. Mediocrisy (sp?) sucks. I would rather be bad, know I'm bad, and have the motivation to get better, then be stuck at average.

    There are many ways and opinions on how to better the team. But just merely making the playoffs shouldn't be something you strive for.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    David Morway disagrees with you.
    may be true my firend

    but I then, respectfully disagree with David Morway
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    We can't get a robotic arm in the lower part of the first round, unfortunately.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    A true fan will wish for whatever's best for the long-term interest of the franchise, not just his own instant gratification. With the way the NBA lottery is setup, sometimes that means taking some steps backwards in order to take a big leap forward.
    The best interest of the franchise is to keep the fans interested in the team. Going out in flames is much better than going out with a whisper. If you don't show your best cards and put out effort all year the local media will eat it all up. By summer no one will be interested in which draft pick we land.

    Today it's really hard to keep someone's interest in something that doesn't yield instant results. I know that it's hard to do, but the casual fan can only tolerate so much before they move onto something else. Remember, when I talk about fanbase I don't particularly mean us here. I mean Joe 9to5 getting off work thinking of how he wants to spend the weekend with his kids.

    I still believe if we were to tank or not, there is no way that we would get the #1 pick...ever. There are too many teams that take that same approach year after year that will ultimately be worse than us.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    A true fan will wish for whatever's best for the long-term interest of the franchise, not just his own instant gratification. With the way the NBA lottery is setup, sometimes that means taking some steps backwards in order to take a big leap forward.
    Exactly,

    Remember when David Robison went down in SA. They "allegdly" played hard, but had the worst record in basketball (actually I think Boston had the worst that year followed by SA)

    That pick turned into Tim Duncan who singlehandedly returned the Spurs to a title in his second year
    Sittin on top of the world!

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    There's the solution. Inside of focusing on basketball, they need to start focusing on intergalactic war strategy.

    Sorry, but this is real life, and stories are just that. Stories. They are told without the realm of reality. They can be manipulated into anything you want.
    The whole moral of that was that you keep fighting. Just because it was a fictional story doesn't mean it's message can't apply to reality.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 12-23-2009 at 03:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Exactly,

    Remember when David Robison went down in SA. They "allegdly" played hard, but had the worst record in basketball (actually I think Boston had the worst that year followed by SA)

    That pick turned into Tim Duncan who singlehandedly returned the Spurs to a title in his second year
    Yeah and that is not how I want to win.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Duke - a fine analogy, and it is nice to see someone having a little fun in the midst of this season.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    I hope that we find a way to improve the personnel on this team and unfortunately given our cap space the only realistic way to do that is through a strong draft pick. John Wall would be an unbelievable improvement at point and while are chances to get him won't be that great its almost worth the risk at this point to get him. We seem to have just marginal talent on this team that would be bench players for other teams, but we have to use as starters (ie - ford, d. jones, foster, watson). Every good team at some point had to have a top pick in order to get where they are now, we haven't had that top pick in a long time.

    I'm not hoping or wishing we lose, i'm hoping we play our young talent to prepare them down the road to where they can contribute on a consistent basis. Whether that leads to use losing a few more games than we normally would win i'm fine with that

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    The whole moral of that was that you keep fighting. Just because it was a fictional story doesn't mean it's message can't apply to reality.
    I know that's the moral of the story, but there are multiple was to achieve the same goal. That's my point in jest. Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it will work for me.

    Just because it worked in Star Wars doesn't mean it will work for the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I know that's the moral of the story, but there are multiple was to achieve the same goal. That's my point in jest. Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it will work for me.

    Just because it worked in Star Wars doesn't mean it will work for the Pacers.
    It could....

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    There's the solution. Inside of focusing on basketball, they need to start focusing on intergalactic war strategy.

    Sorry, but this is real life, and stories are just that. Stories. They are told without the realm of reality. They can be manipulated into anything you want.


    I have said for years on here that being BAD, and I mean really bad, might just be the best thing for the organization. I've felt that the end goal for organization has always been to just make the playoffs. Compete for a championship? Nope, just make the playoffs.
    Sorry, but being the 10th best team in the league that gets to play 4-7 more games a year than half the league isn't success. Mediocrisy (sp?) sucks. I would rather be bad, know I'm bad, and have the motivation to get better, then be stuck at average.

    There are many ways and opinions on how to better the team. But just merely making the playoffs shouldn't be something you strive for.
    You must have slept through the year they made it to the finals.

    For a young team just making it into the playoffs is a good thing. They need to crawl before they walk and playoff experience has no substitute.
    Last edited by GuffeyRay; 12-23-2009 at 03:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Can a TRUE fan wish his team will lose?

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    And we see the success Morway has brought the Pacers.
    How fast did you expect him to turn things around, exactly? He's been in his position for, what, 18 months?

    Furthermore, are you trying to suggest he and Bird's moves thus far have all be the wrong moves?

    If not, what the hell did you expect??

    Yes, I realize people have their own preferences and think they could have done better if they'd done X instead of Y, but are you willing to say the moves were just flat out bad ones that "everyone" knew had very little chance of being good?

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