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Thread: Pacers need a starting PG bad

  1. #1
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    Default Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Don't get me wrong, Watson had a really nice 1st half, and plays really well in spurts, but we need a real floor leader, and I think that would solve a lot of our droughts. Rondo is a terrible shooter, but he still does so much for the Celtics. Good defense and ball pressure and he gets guys EASY shots.

    Perkins got so many layups, Scals, and other bench players had really good looks.

    Our 8 million dollar PG played like 12 minutes tonight, and we were still leading the game until Boston's 3rd quarter surge. Ford's backup has gotten the starting position EVERYWHERE he has been, and I'd take every last one of them as the starting PG on our team. Calderon, Jack, Mo Williams, and I prefer Watson right now.

    I know a lot of folks still want Murph gone, and that makes some sense, but Murph has actually started hitting shots, and when he does that, he's not as terrible as folks make him out to be.

    The sad thing is I don't see another team wanting him at all. And he would be dumb not to pick up his option.

    How come no matter what, the Pacers end up with contracts and players that can't be moved?

    Where are the NBA gods when you need them

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    I think we could use at least a Luke Ridnour, Kyle Lowry, or Sergio Rodriguez right now. We DON'T want TJ

    Why can't we just get an okay PG?
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    Why can't we just get an okay PG?
    The same reason the Bears can't get an okay quarterback, and the Clippers can't produce an okay team. In my opinion, you have to look at the bigger picture when patterns like this persist.
    "Ever wonder what it's like to wonder what it's like to wonder, they get up out of bed but can't awaken from their slumber, they know what they've been told by those who know what they've been told, you see this hand me down knowledge generated ages ago, and I know what they've been told because I've been told the same thing, I had to broaden my horizons to expand on greater things..." Many Styles

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    I've made this point a thousand times..but I can't help but think this is so obvious.

    If player A outplays player B and C in practice, why isn't player A getting playing time in the first place?

    Since he's not getting playing time, and player B and player C are struggling games, still..why isn't player A getting playing time?

    Conclusion, PLAY AJ PRICE. The Pacers do have a very solid point guard..frigging play him.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by PostArtestEra View Post
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    The same reason the Bears can't get an okay quarterback, and the Clippers can't produce an okay team. In my opinion, you have to look at the bigger picture when patterns like this persist.
    The FO? We just fixed that.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesterovic View Post
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    The FO? We just fixed that.
    Actually, I was just alluding to O'brien's system.

    Oh, and Sookie, suggesting that Price is the answer is idiotic.
    "Ever wonder what it's like to wonder what it's like to wonder, they get up out of bed but can't awaken from their slumber, they know what they've been told by those who know what they've been told, you see this hand me down knowledge generated ages ago, and I know what they've been told because I've been told the same thing, I had to broaden my horizons to expand on greater things..." Many Styles

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by PostArtestEra View Post
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    Actually, I was just alluding to O'brien's system.

    Oh, and Sookie, suggesting that Price is the answer is idiotic.
    I'm not suggesting he's the answer, I'm suggesting he's a possibility that's worth at least TRYING. Big difference. If he's outperforming the Vets in practice, and the Vets are sucking in games, there's no reason we can't take a chunk (hell, five minutes from each) to give Price some time..just to see what he can do.

    Regardless, I'd rather watch a kid with energy and a team mindset play than watch Ford turn the ball over and Watson just be passive.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    I personally would love to have Mark Jackson. That would be a good start put him in a nice suit and put him in the head coaches chair. Then I think we will start to develop a quality PG or look to get one that runs and leads the offense. A facilitator and a leader instead of a guy looking to score 20 to 30 points a game while averaging 2 APG.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Who knows if Price is the answer and if anyone says they know either way - they aren't being truthful - no one has seen enough of him to have any idea.

    But the last thing I want at point guard (which is the most important position on the floor) is a stop-gap player. I don't want someone who we know is only an average or slighhtly above average NBA point guard. Trying to get just an okay point guard is how we got into this mess to begin with. Pacers need to draft a star at point guard - they are generally available every draft, the pacers need to draft one of them in the next two years. (unless they think there is a star point guard sitting on the bench somewhere that they can trade for)

    OK, this discussion about Price outplaying Ford and Watson in practice means very little if anything to me (assuming it is even true) Remember how Bender used to "outplay" everyone in practice. But even if it is true for a rookie who doesn't play, practices are his games, he isn't sore from the last game he isn't tired, it isn't a real game or a game at all, so I don't put any stock in it. The coaches need to look into it though, but as a fan, who knows what is true, JOB just threw the comment out there and some of you are acting like it is gospel and we have a hidden gem sitting over there if an only if the "stupid" coach would play him. If JOB thought Price would play well enough and help the team win thuis saving his job he would play Price

    I think someone should call JOB tonight on his show and ask him what he meant by the comment
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-23-2009 at 09:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Who knows if Price is the answer and if anyone says they know either way - they aren't being truthful - no one has seen enough of him to have any idea.

    But the last thing I want at point guard (which is the most important position on the floor) is a stop-gap player. I don't want someone who we know is only an average or slighhtly above average NBA point guard. Trying to get just an okay point guard is how we got into this mess to begin with. Pacers need to draft a star at point guard - they are generally available every draft, the pacers need to draft one of them in the next two years. (unless they think there is a star point guard sitting on the bench somewhere that they can trade for)

    OK, this discussion about Price outplaying Ford and Watson in practice means very little if anything to me (assuming it is even true) Remember how Bender used to "outplay" everyone in practice. But even if it is true for a rookie who doesn't play, practices are his games, he isn't sore from the last game he isn't tired, it isn't a real game or a game at all, so I don't put any stock in it. The coaches need to look into it though, but as a fan, who knows what is true, JOB just threw the comment out there and some of you are acting like it is gospel and we have a hidden gem sitting over there if an only if the "stupid" coach would play him. If JOB thought Price would play well enough and help the team win thuis saving his job he would play Price

    I think someone should call JOB tonight on his show and ask him what he meant by the comment
    If we, as fans (what few of us diehards are out there at this point) cannot trust what the coach says in the media, the coach would be better off not speaking to the media at all, or when he does, he should avoid speaking about things other than game performance or player injury status, regardless of what info the media attempts to gather from him. No, he wouldn't be very popular because of being tight lipped, but at least he wouldn't seem like he is just saying what he thinks we want to hear.

    O'B speaks about a lot of other things and has been caught in hyperbole (if I am to be charitable) by many of us here regarding his reasoning for player decisions. This only compounds the issue to those of us who dislike his in-game decision making and player rotation / playing time decisions.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Where there is desperation, there is still hope UB. I agree with you completely. Given the performance of our PG's, I wouldn't mind seeing him more though. Even if he is abysmal. He can't turn the ball over more than Ford and there is more upside to him than our expiring Earl Watson stop-gap PG. Plus, he is a good passer and plays to the abilities of the other players, which are very important qualities of a good PG. We have problems all over this roster.

    When looking at Rajon Rondo, he gets away with more bad mistakes and bad plays because he plays with 3 hall of famers and a solid young big man who can block shots. He is athletic and can make some amazing plays, but I think his career would be a whole lot different if he was playing on a bad Pacers or Nets team instead of the Celtics. Brandon Rush would be regarded as a much better player because he was playing for the Spurs.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    The Pacers have needed a PG for a decade now. When Mark Jackson played for us I always thought he was dependable, serviceable and reliant. But after watching the likes of Ford, Tinsley, Johnson, Watson, and Diener I now think of Jackson in MUCH higher terms.

    The point is that this thread could have been started any year in the past decade and it would have been accurate. No team in the past 10 years has had worse PG play, none.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    The Pacers have needed a PG for a decade now. When Mark Jackson played for us I always thought he was dependable, serviceable and reliant. But after watching the likes of Ford, Tinsley, Johnson, Watson, and Diener I now think of Jackson in MUCH higher terms.

    The point is that this thread could have been started any year in the past decade and it would have been accurate. No team in the past 10 years has had worse PG play, none.
    And we haven't drafted a point guard in the first round in nearly a decade.

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    And we haven't drafted a point guard in the first round in nearly a decade.

    Lets be fare Mckey, there were probably no pg's that could have been of use when Fred Jones, David Harrison and Brandon Rush were drafted........

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Oh, there are plenty of examples, such as Rondo instead of Shawn.

    Why didn't you mention Shawn? Are you being "fare"?
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Oh, there are plenty of examples, such as Rondo instead of Shawn.

    Why didn't you mention Shawn? Are you being "fare"?
    No, just forgot. A lot of wasted picks out there cluttering my mind.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Problem with drafting any players let along Point Guards is it's a crap shoot. Jennings went 10 with a ton of question marks and is playing great so far. Acie Law went 11 and is a transient or barely in the league.

    I'm fairly certain Ty Lawson would have been a Pacers if TH wasn't there, so I think they are looking at it. When you are as bad as they are, you have to take best available, period.

    My point is this, it is their biggest problem to me and I agree with Buck, in that you need to get one in the next two years, for sure. You just have to be careful and no more stop gaps.

    As for AJ, out practicing aside, I've really liked his on court persona and how he's played. I said persona, cuz he looks like he did at UConn, comfortable. He's not afraid to play. Right now there seems to be a bunch of guys afraid to be the man to close a game. I don't see that in AJ, but I haven't seen him in that situation in the NBA either. I'd like to.

    If I wasn't desensitized to it, I would have gone through about 20 TVs the last few games from lauching my remote...remotely at TJ for an end of game bonehead play.

    Right now, Danny doens't wilt to those moments and I'd have to say the only guy after him is probably Tyler Hansbrough. TH isn't passive or afraid to win or lose a game. He'll make the max effort, take the shot, and let the chips fall where they may. Who else even shows that kind of gumption. Jarret Jack wasn't afraid of this either.

    All I'm saying with AJ is give him a shot and see if he's willing to be a guy who rises to those situations. Right now you have a bunch scared little role players who aren't up for the moment. Thats sad.

    Lastly, I think they should be in that, what can it hurt-mode.

    Play AJ, the worst he'll do is play like the current Point Guards are.
    Last edited by Speed; 12-23-2009 at 12:24 PM.

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  23. #18

    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Who knows if Price is the answer and if anyone says they know either way - they aren't being truthful - no one has seen enough of him to have any idea.

    But the last thing I want at point guard (which is the most important position on the floor) is a stop-gap player. I don't want someone who we know is only an average or slighhtly above average NBA point guard. Trying to get just an okay point guard is how we got into this mess to begin with. Pacers need to draft a star at point guard - they are generally available every draft, the pacers need to draft one of them in the next two years. (unless they think there is a star point guard sitting on the bench somewhere that they can trade for)

    OK, this discussion about Price outplaying Ford and Watson in practice means very little if anything to me (assuming it is even true) Remember how Bender used to "outplay" everyone in practice. But even if it is true for a rookie who doesn't play, practices are his games, he isn't sore from the last game he isn't tired, it isn't a real game or a game at all, so I don't put any stock in it. The coaches need to look into it though, but as a fan, who knows what is true, JOB just threw the comment out there and some of you are acting like it is gospel and we have a hidden gem sitting over there if an only if the "stupid" coach would play him. If JOB thought Price would play well enough and help the team win thuis saving his job he would play Price

    I think someone should call JOB tonight on his show and ask him what he meant by the comment
    Someone should.

    Someone should also ask him why he said he was going to give Price time every game, and Price has had about 8 DNPs since? How come he said he was going to play TJ at crunch time, and then THAT DAY did not? I could come up with a ton of these.

    and no, I don't think JOB would play Price if it would help him win. Honestly, in the few times Price has played, he's played well. Ford has played well in like one game this season.

    Not saying there's a hidden gem. Saying there's a possibility, and I'm also saying that what is happening now isn't working, and there are other options that JOB refuses to use. And my issue is that if a kid comes in, plays well in a game, in a situation which is hard to handle for any player, never mind a rookie (filling in after not getting consistant time), in fact..clearly outplayed the starter. Apparently outplays the vets in practice. Always gets positive comments from JOB (which is different from the rest of the youth on the team) and yet he doesn't get time to prove he can do anything. At this point Why not give him some time?

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Problem with drafting any players let along Point Guards is it's a crap shoot. Jennings went 10 with a ton of question marks and is playing great so far. Acie Law went 11 and is a transient or barely in the league.

    I'm fairly certain Ty Lawson would have been a Pacers if TH wasn't there, so I think they are looking at it. When you are as bad as they are, you have to take best available, period.

    My point is this, it is their biggest problem to me and I agree with Buck, in that you need to get one in the next two years, for sure. You just have to be careful and no more stop gaps.

    As for AJ, out practicing aside, I've really liked his on court persona and how he's played. I said persona, cuz he looks like he did at UConn, comfortable. He's not afraid to play. Right now there seems to be a bunch of guys afraid to be the man to close a game. I don't see that in AJ, but I haven't seen him in that situation in the NBA either. I'd like to.

    If I wasn't desensitized to it, I would have gone through about 20 TVs the last few games from lauching my remote...remotely at TJ for an end of game bonehead play.

    Right now, Danny doens't wilt to those moments and I'd have to say the only guy after him is probably Tyler Hansbrough. TH isn't passive or afraid to win or lose a game. He'll make the max effort, take the shot, and let the chips fall where they may. Who else even shows that kind of gumption. Jarret Jack wasn't afraid of this either.

    All I'm saying with AJ is give him a shot and see if he's willing to be a guy who rises to those situations. Right now you have a bunch scared little role players who aren't up for the moment. Thats sad.

    Lastly, I think they should be in that, what can it hurt-mode.

    Play AJ, the worst he'll do is play like the current Point Guards are.
    I agree. This team is going nowhere fast. Time to use this season to see what we have in Hansbrough, Rush, Price and Hibbert. Go young, experience some losses, and use your young talent to evaluate what is needed in the next two drafts and after our big contracts come off the books.

    As I see it this will be our roster (for the most part) for the next two seasons. After Murphleavy comes off the books and we have two (hopefully high) first round picks come in we can start moving forward.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    I agree. This team is going nowhere fast. Time to use this season to see what we have in , Rush, and Hibbert.
    ChicagoJ said the exact same thing (minus hans and price) about this time last year.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    I know it isn't a long term solution, but I would like to see travis as the back up to watson and get a few mins for ford as the shooting guard maybe 12 to 14 mins each.

    I remember some games last year where travis really ran the team better than anyone else.
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    -- Frank Vogel.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Andre Miller. The Blazers desperately need to trade for a big guy. Miller doesn't fit in with the team because Brandon Roy is incapable (or unwilling) of playing without dominating the ball. Miller is still good.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Miller for Foster.

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Andre Miller will be 34 later this year. He is the opitome of a stop gap solution.

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    Default Re: Pacers need a starting PG bad

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Miller for Foster.

    I'm afraid Fosters done. He's had these lingering injuries since last year, and he's out indefinently; which probably means he's given up the basketball ghost. Poor guy.

    That leaves us with no one to trade for Andre Miller. Of course there are other options. There's that Ramon Sessions guy that everyone drooled over last year, theres the playmaker Luke Ridnour, Jordan Farmar is a nice player, Jarrett Jack is arguably outplaying Jose Calderon, so eventually he could be a possibility. Kyle Weaver could be on the block with Maynor in the rotation, DJ Augustin is desperately wanting to get an actual chance with Charlotte. JJ Barea has always striked me as an interesting player, as well as Kyle Lowry out of Houston. CJ Watson has looked solid every time I watched him, and of course there's Beno Udrih and Sergio Rodriguez out of Sac Town. Daniel Gibson might be able to come over, but I'm not a big fan of his long term contract, and I'm a huge fan of Mike Taylor who is currently in the free agent market.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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