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Thread: Grade the Colts for the last decade

  1. #26

    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    I feel you have to look @ the whole decade and yes if it was the regular sesaon I would give them an A+ but to have a season when you get demolished in the playoffs (San Diego two years ago) and multiple seasons of zero wins in the playoffs they drop to a C. Skip Bayless gave them a C-. Skip would lay Tom Brady in a heart beat though.

    This makes absolutely no sense. Every year 1 team wins the Super Bowl. That means 31 teams don't. So you're penalizing them for doing what the odds (and reality) would predict will happen most seasons? At most in a decade only 10 different teams can win a SB. That means at least 22 teams are going away empty handed. With repeat winners I think the total of different SB winners this decade will be what? 7? That leaves 25 teams on the outside looking in.

    This doesn't even mention the records (individual and team) that have been broken this decade by the Colts, or breaking barriers with the first black NFL champion head coach. That shouldn't even matter really, because by even your convoluted perception that only playoff success matters the single Super Bowl win puts them in the top 20% of the league alone.

    And if the top quarter of the league is getting C's .... I guess we're handing out 20 different grades D's and F's according to your cracked out scale of grading. Apparently we'll give out a single A, a single B and everyone else is stuck at C, D, F.

    Hence, why the C is humorous to me. Nobody could possibly be .... off .... enough to truly believe that. Even more so after hearing the logic that didn't even support such an idea. I'm sure if I went into each teams "playoff successes" for the decade, I'd find 28 teams or so with fewer playoff victories this decade. If I had to guess the Patriots and Steelers would be the only 2 I'd expect it from.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    We're so freaking spoiled that we're knocking them for not having ENOUGH Super Bowl trophies. Do you guys have any idea how hard it is to win a Super Bowl?

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    We're so freaking spoiled that we're knocking them for not having ENOUGH Super Bowl trophies. Do you guys have any idea how hard it is to win a Super Bowl?
    No... the 'penalizing' is coming from a lack of playoff success. When you have a team with a special player, and extended regular season success, a series of one and done's in the playoffs drags down your overall score (unless you don't want to use the playoffs at all in the grading). Personally, I think playoff success should count a little more than regular season success (if anything).

    Also, giving the Colts an "A" puts them with teams with multiple SB wins and playoff success. That doesn't seem fair to those teams. Shouldn't they grade higher than the Colts? I don't believe 'everybody' can get an "A".

    But I don't think the Colts deserve a "C" either. Their lone SB appearance (and win) as well as excellent regular season record this decade puts them into the upper echelons. Regular seasons alone = A.... Add in playoffs and I have to drop them into the B range. Factor in a SB win and you have A- to B+ range.

    An A+ should be an almost unattainable score.

    That is my thought process on the subject.
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    We're so freaking spoiled that we're knocking them for not having ENOUGH Super Bowl trophies. Do you guys have any idea how hard it is to win a Super Bowl?
    No, we're knocking them for losing home playoff games.

    What's the big difference between the Belichick-era Pats and the Dungy-era Colts aside from the number of rings? The Belichick era Pats have NEVER lost a home playoff game and they have NEVER been eliminated in their first playoff game.

    Manning is a once in a lifetime player. I want to max-out his tenure here, and I don't think that has quite been done yet.

    I agree with Bball that giving us the same grade as the Pats/Steelers isn't really fair to them.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 12-23-2009 at 09:18 PM.

  8. #30
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    No... the 'penalizing' is coming from a lack of playoff success. When you have a team with a special player, and extended regular season success, a series of one and done's in the playoffs drags down your overall score (unless you don't want to use the playoffs at all in the grading). Personally, I think playoff success should count a little more than regular season success (if anything).

    Also, giving the Colts an "A" puts them with teams with multiple SB wins and playoff success. That doesn't seem fair to those teams. Shouldn't they grade higher than the Colts? I don't believe 'everybody' can get an "A".

    But I don't think the Colts deserve a "C" either. Their lone SB appearance (and win) as well as excellent regular season record this decade puts them into the upper echelons. Regular seasons alone = A.... Add in playoffs and I have to drop them into the B range. Factor in a SB win and you have A- to B+ range.

    An A+ should be an almost unattainable score.

    That is my thought process on the subject.
    Not everybody is getting an A, I only gave three teams out of thirty an A. 10%. Not a ridiculous percentage IMO. Certainly, you take some away from the Colts for the playoff failures, and maybe you argue that the Pats and the Steelers get an A+, but we're talking a Super Bowl victory. The MOST wins in a decade, arguably the greatest player of that decade, record breaking performances, at least three ESPN classic style comebacks (Tampa Bay Monday night game, New England AFC Champ game, and the New England game this season), countless other hall of fame caliber players coming through the franchise.

    Look I'm as much as anyone to sit in the present and pick out the imperfections in the Colts, and yes I believe they should have won at least two super bowls, but honestly when you really start looking back over the past ten years how can you not become sentimental about a team, that won as a team, they lost as a team, through it all they made me PROUD to be a Colts fan, and they still picked up a championship along the way. It's hard for me not to give them an A when I really start to view everything like that.

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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    I mean if you're giving the Colts a C or even a B, then what do you give the Pacers F-, F--? I mean just look at what we've done this decade and there are 27 other teams that would trade places with us in a heartbeat. 90% of the league would trade their decade for the Colts' decade. THat's pretty incredible.

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  11. #32

    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Most wins in a decade ever.

    12 wins a season for 6 (7 ? - I lost count) years in a row. 1st time ever.

    Playoff losses - sure. Each year there are 15 teams that have a playoff loss.

    And the decade isn't quite over yet, so maybe some judgment should be saved until this season is over. It could wind up being another of those first time ever things again.

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  13. #33

    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    Manning is a once in a lifetime player. I want to max-out his tenure here, and I don't think that has quite been done yet.
    So was Elway, and he didn't get one until he was nearly in a wheelchair. So was Marino .....

    Regardless of the media (and others) idea that the only player that matters on an NFL team is QB, the fact is this is a team sport. TEAM. Just having the best QB doesn't mean you're always going to win the Super Bowl. I think some peoples expectations are warped by this idea.

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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Really the only damning thing is the 1st round losses. Other than that, the only thing missing is more Super Bowl's. It's been an outstanding body of work this decade. Or pretty damn close.

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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    I feel you have to look @ the whole decade and yes if it was the regular sesaon I would give them an A+ but to have a season when you get demolished in the playoffs (San Diego two years ago) and multiple seasons of zero wins in the playoffs they drop to a C. Skip Bayless gave them a C-. Skip would lay Tom Brady in a heart beat though.
    Did you really just defend an opinion by citing Skip Bayless?

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  18. #36
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    As a fan of another team I will offer my opinion.

    The Colts have won more games than any other team this decade. They have won a super bowl, have been competitive the entire decade, have broken numerous records, have the greatest QB ever (well by the time he retires he will be), and can possibly do something this year even the mighty patriots could not do two years ago.

    As of right now I say the Colts get an A-. I'd say the Patriots get the A+ as they have been consistent and won 3 SB's and gone to another. So with the Patriots setting the bar here, I judge the rest of the league off of that. The Colts have been as consistent if not more consistent than the Pats, just don't have as many Super Bowls.

    Now if the Colts were to go undefeated and win the SB or even just win the SB, I would probably move them up to an A+. Loss in the SB, A, and if they lose before the SB they stay at an A-.

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  20. #37
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    As a fan of another team I will offer my opinion.

    The Colts have won more games than any other team this decade. They have won a super bowl, have been competitive the entire decade, have broken numerous records, have the greatest QB ever (well by the time he retires he will be), and can possibly do something this year even the mighty patriots could not do two years ago.

    As of right now I say the Colts get an A-. I'd say the Patriots get the A+ as they have been consistent and won 3 SB's and gone to another. So with the Patriots setting the bar here, I judge the rest of the league off of that. The Colts have been as consistent if not more consistent than the Pats, just don't have as many Super Bowls.

    Now if the Colts were to go undefeated and win the SB or even just win the SB, I would probably move them up to an A+. Loss in the SB, A, and if they lose before the SB they stay at an A-.

    This is the same basic thought process I used. The difference being that I said an A+ was almost unattainable in my grading system. I count playoff success to mean as much or more than regular season success and therefore I'd consider the Pats setting the bar overall. So whatever score I'd give them the Colts would have to be under it (as of now... the decade isn't over).

    I explained I would be looking at an A- or B+ for the Colts and in my thinking that is pretty darned good. They would be almost alone in that area the way I am grading it. ...In the top 3 certainly....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    We're so freaking spoiled that we're knocking them for not having ENOUGH Super Bowl trophies. Do you guys have any idea how hard it is to win a Super Bowl?
    It's just one of those things I laugh about sometimes, how some can be so fickle about the Colts.

    Before XLI... "Please just win one, I'll sell my soul for a SB win."
    After XLI... "Eh, they won just won one. I won't be content until we get three or four."

    Before XLI... "This team isn't good enough to win, too one-dimensional."
    After XLI... "This team should have won three or four, we were a great team."

    After the post XLI playoffs losses, it was... "I don't care about stats, records, or anything; I just want to win another Super Bowl."
    Now it's... "We should have gone for 19-0"

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  23. #39
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Natston View Post
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    It's just one of those things I laugh about sometimes, how some can be so fickle about the Colts.

    Before XLI... "Please just win one, I'll sell my soul for a SB win."
    After XLI... "Eh, they won just won one. I won't be content until we get three or four."

    Before XLI... "This team isn't good enough to win, too one-dimensional."
    After XLI... "This team should have won three or four, we were a great team."

    After the post XLI playoffs losses, it was... "I don't care about stats, records, or anything; I just want to win another Super Bowl."
    Now it's... "We should have gone for 19-0"
    Exactly, look, when Caldwell/Polian made the final call to pull the starters I was shouting and yelling, and was extremley pissed we did that, but now as I have calmed down off of my knee-jerk reaction I have realized that even though I really, really wanted 19-0, it really is a big distraction that we didn't need and 16-0 really means nothing if we don't win the Super Bowl.

    Look, the object of the season is to compete for a Super Bowl, right? Well, we are, and we haven't been eliminated yet, have we? 19-0 would have been awesome, but look at the Patriots of 2007? Look at the last time we were 13-0, I remember people saying how when we lost in the first round that year, "Screw being undefeated, just bring us a damn trophy." The Patriots almost had 19-0, but went 18-1 and now that amazing 16-0 season means nothing. It's cool, but they didn't bring home the Lombardi trophy and don't tell me that the majority would be OK if we lost in the Super Bowl, and at least we went for it.

    We'd probably all be pissed and second guessing playing starters in Buffalo or *****ing about the usual one and done or whatever, and not saying, "Oh well, at least we tried to go undefeated, I'm not upset at all." I know I wouldn't give a rat's *** about a 16-0 season if we lost in the playoffs at some point. In the end it's about winning those 3-4 games in the playoffs, it's about going undefeated in the postseason once you clinch the postseason and all that you can, IMO.

    Fire Caldwell? Ummmm, no. If anything he is taking orders from Mr. Polian, and I'd probably have done the same thing even if I wanted to go for a 19-0 season, if my boss was lobbying me to rest them or take them out. But I guess some people would take that as weakness in the coach, and hell, for all we know it could have been Jim's decision. We probably will never know this until years later. I think players lobbied to play for the rest of the year, and Jim was able to get by the Jacksonville game, then Polian stepped in and said, we're gonna do blablabla and rest after whatever. That's just something that has crossed my mind, and something I think is possible. I'm very curious to know.

    If we win the Super Bowl, there is always going to be that what if and the Super Bowl won't mean as much because we didn't go 19-0 and could have possibly? Are you kidding me? If we win the Super Bowl, then we just won the ******* Super Bowl, our second one in what 4 years at that, and you are acting way too spoiled to be a little upset that we didn't win every single game. There shouldn't be a single person that feels that way.

    Look, I wanted 19-0, I understand what it could have meant, but we're not going 19-0, sadly. I'm almost already over being upset about it.

    We still have games to play. A home Divisional playoff game, and possibly a home AFC Championship game and a good shot at the Super Bowl, let's be happy one of our teams has clinched playoffs, is contending for a Super Bowl, has home field advantage, and a championship under its belt already.

    Also, if we go one and done again this year, then I do agree, some kind of change needs to be made, but that has a been a recurring thing, and shouldn't just be based off of this year.

    Again, not trying to force my opinion on people, if I come across as someone trying to do that, I am sorry.
    Last edited by Lord Helmet; 12-28-2009 at 06:25 AM.
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Natston View Post
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    After the post XLI playoffs losses, it was... "I don't care about stats, records, or anything; I just want to win another Super Bowl."
    Now it's... "We should have gone for 19-0"
    Obviously no Colts fan would have ever listed 19-0 as something they wanted before the season. That would be an illogical goal as no one has ever gone 19-0 before.

    But once we got to 14-0 and had the chance, you can better believe we wanted it. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Instead of hearing "72 Dolphins", we would be hearing "09 Colts" for a long time. 19-0 isn't a goal you ever has a fan, because it's nearly impossible to do, but once you are on it's doorstep you can better believe it's something you want.

  26. #41
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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    With some debate here about how to grade the Colts for the decade a lot of the debate would be stifled if the Colts had -
    A: Went 16-0 and matched their nemesis (Patriots) for an undefeated reg season
    B: Went 19-0 and owned the record for an unbeaten season including playoffs/SB. Not only would've they have matched the Dolphins in being one of only two team to have done that but they would've had to have won more games to do it (putting them in a category by themselves).

    You want to cement a legacy for a team? That would do it...

    A SB win would get some of that back but it won't match the history books for an undefeated season. And of course there's no guarantee there's a SB in our immediate future. And we just pissed on our chance for at least putting a regular season together for the history books (let alone the whole enchilada).
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  27. #42

    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Six playoff one-and-dones in a decade is a lot to ignore, since many came as prohibitive favorites.

    A+ in the regular season, A- in the regular season, A overall.

    Another one and done this year, though, and I'd have to drop them a little more, B+ at best for the postseason.

    Maybe that doesn't make much sense, dropping their grade for something happening 7 times rather than 6, but this year has seemed to be their year. The rest of the conference powers are badly flawed this year. The Patriots cleared the deck on defense, the Steelers can't run and have a porous D, even the Chargers seem one-dimensional and defensively-challenged.

    This ought to be the year the Colts at least get back to the SB.

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    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    But once we got to 14-0 and had the chance, you can better believe we wanted it. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Instead of hearing "72 Dolphins", we would be hearing "09 Colts" for a long time. 19-0 isn't a goal you ever has a fan, because it's nearly impossible to do, but once you are on it's doorstep you can better believe it's something you want.
    My point is that some wanted a SB at all costs (even making sure that they didn't get a bye), and now we should be pissed because the TPTB are focused on the playoffs and not a regular season record.
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  30. #44

    Default Re: Grade the Colts for the last decade

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Man you guys are tough graders. Only two other teams were better than us this decade, Pats and Steelers. Then it's us and the distance between us and the fourth team is HUGE (probably the Eagles). I give the Pats, Steelers, and Colts As.

    Yea but one has to take into account the fact that the Pats beat us all 3 times to get their SB and the Steelers also beat us to get theirs.. therefore I believe a solid B+

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