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Thread: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    What the hell is a "win now" move? This write is pulling stuff out of his *** I think. We're not happy as a 9-16 team? Well, Jesus it certainly doesn't take a Rhodes scholar to figure that one out. We want to make a win now move? Well doesn't everyone and their mother know the Pacers had the goal of making the playoffs this season? IMO, He's probably just writing fluff to say something to create debate, it's probably based on absolutely nothing in reality.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    trading murphy would not be a win now move. that makes no sense
    Agree, it would be a move to save money and give the team more flexibility. By the way, I'm okay with that.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    He is a Pacer.... so let's trade Troy before he gets injured

    I really don't see any immediate improvements for this team, however I am in the addition by subtraction camp.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Any move the Pacers need just needs to be a good one. There may be multiple pathways to get to good. There's also plenty of ways that would result in bad. I just hope they are judicious in any dealings.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Our resources are not maximized to at least this offseason. There may be a desperate team at the break that you can dump some salary and get a late round pick, but that is about it.

    We have no resources to help us win now. I want Gortat, but I doubt the Magic would take a player they don't need to part with him that they matched an offer on.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    What scares me is usually "win now" means we could lose one of our young core guys - rush, djones, hibby, danny, aj, or tyler. i certainly hope not one of these guys. I could buy into losing rush, but thats about it for that group.

    Even Troy. Even though I cant stand the guy, he is an asset with his impending expiring. I say hang onto him a little bit longer.

    The other thing that comes to my mind is why jump overboard now? Arent we still in year 2 of the "3 year plan"? We are going to have a ton of money coming off the books after next year, dont screw that up now, after having 3-4 horrendous years in a row. Just say "1 more year"?

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    The only thing I can see in a "win now" move is to appease the casual fanbase. The people who know that the team needs something, and not that aware of the financial future of the team outside of what they see in The Star.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
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    The other thing that comes to my mind is why jump overboard now? Arent we still in year 2 of the "3 year plan"? We are going to have a ton of money coming off the books after next year, dont screw that up now, after having 3-4 horrendous years in a row. Just say "1 more year"?
    Making a trade now or just before the trade deadline this year doesn't mean it's a screw up. We actually need to trade at least one of our big expirings in two years for an expiring this year. That will give us cap flexibility this Summer and keep us from paying the lux. tax next year.

    Of course we could wait until this Summer to do that. However the sooner we do it the sooner we have flexibility.

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  10. #34

    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    ^^^ good reminder about the imminent luxury tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    However the sooner we do it the sooner we have flexibility.
    Flexibility is good. So is cash.

    Many posters seem only to be thinking only about the talent-on-the-floor side of this issue. But if the Pacers could free up several million dollars with a trade/buyout, they would probably be wise just saving the money.

    There really isn't a "win now" scenario, is there?
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Right, it'd be more of a save some money now, move.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by theboyjwo View Post
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    I think if they went out and got T-mac, that would pretty much get you into the playoffs. If they could do it without giving up Granger, hibbert, and Handsbrough, I'd say pull the trigger.
    I don't think you make this trade considering T-Mac is oft injured. If the Pacers wanted to continue worrying about a player's injury woes they may as well have kept Quis and TinJury.

  13. #37

    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    trading him at the right time is key, and right now IMO is not the right time. His trade value is only going to increase over the next 14 months. or you can let his contract expire

    I disagree. Now is the right time if Murphy is traded to Cleveland for Z. This season is a bust, so go for the finanical and the Cavs' 2010 1st. Think future.

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    I doubt you can make a 2011-finding one or two starters move (as described by Obie)

    You can, maybe, make a salary cap relief, give more minutes to youngsters move, which I think is fine.

    You still have enough expiring chips for the 2011 plan.

    Count55 outlined it basically the end of summer that they are RIGHT up against the luxury threshold next year if not over.

    This move has been coming a mile away, unless they were to go 17-9 and started to increase attendance.

    Well that's not happening.

  15. #39
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I doubt you can make a 2011-finding one or two starters move (as described by Obie)

    You can, maybe, make a salary cap relief, give more minutes to youngsters move, which I think is fine.

    You still have enough expiring chips for the 2011 plan.

    Count55 outlined it basically the end of summer that they are RIGHT up against the luxury threshold next year if not over.

    This move has been coming a mile away, unless they were to go 17-9 and started to increase attendance.

    Well that's not happening.
    Unless they dump a contract, they'll probably be $7-8 million over the luxury tax next season, which will probably be about $60.4 million.

    They've probably been working under the assumption that they were going to either let one of the contracts expire and keep the savings, or use it in a salary dump for over a year now, so a Murphy-Z type of deal doesn't change the three-year plan.

    They were never going to be able to string all four contracts together and get value. Once you get past $10-12mm, expiring contracts start to lose value. This is pretty basic stuff, so doing a salary dump won't hurt the 2011 plan, and it will help finance the short term (next two years).

    The thing that everybody needs to get an understanding of is that an expiring contract is really just filler, if you're looking to add a Danny Granger quality player. The Pacers are going to have to offer youth and picks along with it to get player of high quality.

    This is where Rush is just killing the Pacers. As long as he plays like he's playing, he will have absolutely no value. Unless Hansbrough develops significantly, the Pacers will almost certainly have to throw Hibbert and maybe another pick into any deal to get good talent.

    Given how little value our young players have, overall, I think it's far more likely that the Pacers are going to have to go after free agents. Who that will be remains to be seen.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    We only spent the next seven seasons going "well what this team really needs is a player like Dale Davis".

    Much like Troy Murphy of today Jermaine had good stats. but team wise, well let's just say it wasn't the slam dunk some want to think it was.

    But I am breaking my own rule here, I vowed last season to be done with the Jermaine debate and I am.

    I just wanted to make sure that someone said that it wasn't as obvious of a "win" for the Pacers as some would think.
    Now tell me what Dale did after the trade? I believe that you place way too much value on Dale. The other teams did not set up their game plans on how they were going to handle the one dimensional Dale but they sure did worry about stopping Smits.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I doubt you can make a 2011-finding one or two starters move (as described by Obie)

    You can, maybe, make a salary cap relief, give more minutes to youngsters move, which I think is fine.

    You still have enough expiring chips for the 2011 plan.

    Count55 outlined it basically the end of summer that they are RIGHT up against the luxury threshold next year if not over.

    This move has been coming a mile away, unless they were to go 17-9 and started to increase attendance.

    Well that's not happening.
    If Murphy is on the block....moving him isn't a "win now" move....but a "necessary" move.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    If Murphy is on the block....moving him isn't a "win now" move....but a "necessary" move.
    Exactly, I wish there was a way to get an Anthony Randolph or the like for him, though. In a multi team trade, that is, but I don't think that is doable or the focus.
    Last edited by Speed; 12-22-2009 at 11:31 AM.

  19. #43
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    Now tell me what Dale did after the trade? I believe that you place way too much value on Dale. The other teams did not set up their game plans on how they were going to handle the one dimensional Dale but they sure did worry about stopping Smits.
    You mean other than be the starting center for a playoff team? Or how about later on in his career where he returned here and helped Reggie take an under staffed (yet thanks to Dale never undermaned) team to the playoffs.

    I value Rik as well, so we are NOT going to be having a debate over those two because I've said a million times that if you could combine the two players together you would have a David Robinson or Hakeem type player.

    However since they were seperated they were good for each other. Rik on the offensive end and Dale on the defensive end.


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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    And we are still looking for Dale Davis. Everybody on this board loved DD, I believe. I absolutely loved having DD and Antonio Davis together with Smits. That's why I am clamoring for a PF/C in this draft, so that we can get back to that type of front court rotation. Solid defensively, lots of strength and size, shot blocking, and complementary strong side scoring and weak side offensive rebounding. I think our front court of the future needs a starting PF with some size and rebounding to complement Hibby. Hans is the perfect first big off the bench. The only way I would change my hopes is if we luck ourselves into John Wall.

    We are always comparing every PF we get to DD. Murphy is everything that DD isn't. I think subconsciously, that is half the reason he gets a bad rap. The other reason is that we see what he brings to the team, and its not conducive to winning with this roster. He is a good player, but better suited elsewhere. That is just from a basketball standpoint.

    Financially, it makes all the sense in the world to make a Murphy for Z and Powe deal. Powe would be somebody the Cavs would give up on a minimum two year deal and not Hickson. LeBron really likes Hickson and would be pissed. I would not be opposed to making a deal for a $5M expiring and a guy with three years left at $5M, assuming he is a solid young guy such as Brandon Bass. Or maybe Milwaukee would trade some of their piecemeal expiring contracts to us for Murphy. He would be an interesting dynamic on that team with the way they can shoot and they have a solid big in Bogut. He complements the athleticism they have at PF as well and makes their front court rotation more versatile, which is something he doesn't do for us. Plus, they are looking like a playoff team now and they won't have cap space next year to make a major move anyway, but have the room to take his contract on without issue.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I can partially agree with you, Peck. But one thing that this trade did do was help create a player that fans could rally around for quite some time, and even though it didn't pan out - after Reggie retired.

    Winning was a very big part of the equation, but JO was an all-star for many years while being on this team. It brought a sense of pride to the fans and the community that we had a player of that caliber on this roster.
    more importantly what we need now....JO put more butts in the seats.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    i'm sorry but the best strategy the pacers could have used the past 3 years is getting themselves a top 3-5 draft pick

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    We only spent the next seven seasons going "well what this team really needs is a player like Dale Davis".
    Much like Troy Murphy of today Jermaine had good stats. but team wise, well let's just say it wasn't the slam dunk some want to think it was.

    But I am breaking my own rule here, I vowed last season to be done with the Jermaine debate and I am.

    I just wanted to make sure that someone said that it wasn't as obvious of a "win" for the Pacers as some would think.
    I dont necessarly agree with that. When JO first came to the Pacers, he was young and athletic and a great shot blocker and decent low post defendere. I still think that turned out to be a strong win for us as DD was on the downside of his career and JO turned out to be a perinniel all-star and finished 3rd in MVP voting

    So in my humble opinion we made out well with that trade
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'll say it: Tracy McGrady sucks.
    Dash your better than that man

    T-Mac doesnt suck

    His injuries suck
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  26. #49
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    trading him at the right time is key, and right now IMO is not the right time. His trade value is only going to increase over the next 14 months. or you can let his contract expire
    Buck, I agree but...

    If a tream see's Troy as a move to get over the "hump" it might be the right time. Obviously it depends on the contents of the trade

    I do agree though you dont want to take on another bad contract , or weak deal just to get rid of Troy
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    No, I don't. But I can sell a ketchup popsicle to an old lady in a white dress on a hot day.

    Trading a player or set of players right now is a catch 22.

    The pros of working a trade now is that it instills some freshness in the fan base, but I can see it souring some of the remaining players. I think it would hurt morale if you know that the team was willing to give up on a player and let him go. Then again you may light a fire and a player(s) may work harder, showing their value to the team and why they should stay.

    Even when you are a sub-500 team, there are players that stand out to a team's fanbase that are hard to replace. Right now I would say that Danny and Tyler (maybe Hibbert) are the only players that may have some kind of hold on the fans, or what I mean is fans have a hold on them. Sure they aren't untouchable, but you want to try and not detach the fanbase any further unless you are 100% sure you'll be at the next level.

    Sadly, guys...this is going to be a hard process that may leave some of you a little frustrated, maybe even more than you are now. While I'm not waiting around for 2011 to come around like it's Christmas, I'm still not sold on how attractive we will be by then for mid to top-tier FAs.

    I can say that this team will need to do something to prove that Indiana can handle a winning environment at some point before then. Whether that be by trading for some proven young talent, or nabbing a veteran (Sam Perkins, Chris Mullin-type guys) that can lead this team and get their heads back into a winning mentality.
    LMAO,

    Only a Hoosier could come up with a line like that
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