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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

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  • #31
    Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

    What scares me is usually "win now" means we could lose one of our young core guys - rush, djones, hibby, danny, aj, or tyler. i certainly hope not one of these guys. I could buy into losing rush, but thats about it for that group.

    Even Troy. Even though I cant stand the guy, he is an asset with his impending expiring. I say hang onto him a little bit longer.

    The other thing that comes to my mind is why jump overboard now? Arent we still in year 2 of the "3 year plan"? We are going to have a ton of money coming off the books after next year, dont screw that up now, after having 3-4 horrendous years in a row. Just say "1 more year"?

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    • #32
      Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

      The only thing I can see in a "win now" move is to appease the casual fanbase. The people who know that the team needs something, and not that aware of the financial future of the team outside of what they see in The Star.

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      • #33
        Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

        Originally posted by BoomBaby33 View Post
        The other thing that comes to my mind is why jump overboard now? Arent we still in year 2 of the "3 year plan"? We are going to have a ton of money coming off the books after next year, dont screw that up now, after having 3-4 horrendous years in a row. Just say "1 more year"?
        Making a trade now or just before the trade deadline this year doesn't mean it's a screw up. We actually need to trade at least one of our big expirings in two years for an expiring this year. That will give us cap flexibility this Summer and keep us from paying the lux. tax next year.

        Of course we could wait until this Summer to do that. However the sooner we do it the sooner we have flexibility.

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        • #34
          Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

          ^^^ good reminder about the imminent luxury tax.

          Originally posted by Will Galen
          However the sooner we do it the sooner we have flexibility.
          Flexibility is good. So is cash.

          Many posters seem only to be thinking only about the talent-on-the-floor side of this issue. But if the Pacers could free up several million dollars with a trade/buyout, they would probably be wise just saving the money.

          There really isn't a "win now" scenario, is there?
          And I won't be here to see the day
          It all dries up and blows away
          I'd hang around just to see
          But they never had much use for me
          In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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          • #35
            Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

            Right, it'd be more of a save some money now, move.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

              Originally posted by theboyjwo View Post
              I think if they went out and got T-mac, that would pretty much get you into the playoffs. If they could do it without giving up Granger, hibbert, and Handsbrough, I'd say pull the trigger.
              I don't think you make this trade considering T-Mac is oft injured. If the Pacers wanted to continue worrying about a player's injury woes they may as well have kept Quis and TinJury.

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              • #37
                Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                trading him at the right time is key, and right now IMO is not the right time. His trade value is only going to increase over the next 14 months. or you can let his contract expire

                I disagree. Now is the right time if Murphy is traded to Cleveland for Z. This season is a bust, so go for the finanical and the Cavs' 2010 1st. Think future.

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                • #38
                  Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                  I doubt you can make a 2011-finding one or two starters move (as described by Obie)

                  You can, maybe, make a salary cap relief, give more minutes to youngsters move, which I think is fine.

                  You still have enough expiring chips for the 2011 plan.

                  Count55 outlined it basically the end of summer that they are RIGHT up against the luxury threshold next year if not over.

                  This move has been coming a mile away, unless they were to go 17-9 and started to increase attendance.

                  Well that's not happening.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                    Originally posted by Speed View Post
                    I doubt you can make a 2011-finding one or two starters move (as described by Obie)

                    You can, maybe, make a salary cap relief, give more minutes to youngsters move, which I think is fine.

                    You still have enough expiring chips for the 2011 plan.

                    Count55 outlined it basically the end of summer that they are RIGHT up against the luxury threshold next year if not over.

                    This move has been coming a mile away, unless they were to go 17-9 and started to increase attendance.

                    Well that's not happening.
                    Unless they dump a contract, they'll probably be $7-8 million over the luxury tax next season, which will probably be about $60.4 million.

                    They've probably been working under the assumption that they were going to either let one of the contracts expire and keep the savings, or use it in a salary dump for over a year now, so a Murphy-Z type of deal doesn't change the three-year plan.

                    They were never going to be able to string all four contracts together and get value. Once you get past $10-12mm, expiring contracts start to lose value. This is pretty basic stuff, so doing a salary dump won't hurt the 2011 plan, and it will help finance the short term (next two years).

                    The thing that everybody needs to get an understanding of is that an expiring contract is really just filler, if you're looking to add a Danny Granger quality player. The Pacers are going to have to offer youth and picks along with it to get player of high quality.

                    This is where Rush is just killing the Pacers. As long as he plays like he's playing, he will have absolutely no value. Unless Hansbrough develops significantly, the Pacers will almost certainly have to throw Hibbert and maybe another pick into any deal to get good talent.

                    Given how little value our young players have, overall, I think it's far more likely that the Pacers are going to have to go after free agents. Who that will be remains to be seen.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                      Originally posted by Peck View Post
                      We only spent the next seven seasons going "well what this team really needs is a player like Dale Davis".

                      Much like Troy Murphy of today Jermaine had good stats. but team wise, well let's just say it wasn't the slam dunk some want to think it was.

                      But I am breaking my own rule here, I vowed last season to be done with the Jermaine debate and I am.

                      I just wanted to make sure that someone said that it wasn't as obvious of a "win" for the Pacers as some would think.
                      Now tell me what Dale did after the trade? I believe that you place way too much value on Dale. The other teams did not set up their game plans on how they were going to handle the one dimensional Dale but they sure did worry about stopping Smits.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                        Originally posted by Speed View Post
                        I doubt you can make a 2011-finding one or two starters move (as described by Obie)

                        You can, maybe, make a salary cap relief, give more minutes to youngsters move, which I think is fine.

                        You still have enough expiring chips for the 2011 plan.

                        Count55 outlined it basically the end of summer that they are RIGHT up against the luxury threshold next year if not over.

                        This move has been coming a mile away, unless they were to go 17-9 and started to increase attendance.

                        Well that's not happening.
                        If Murphy is on the block....moving him isn't a "win now" move....but a "necessary" move.
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                          If Murphy is on the block....moving him isn't a "win now" move....but a "necessary" move.
                          Exactly, I wish there was a way to get an Anthony Randolph or the like for him, though. In a multi team trade, that is, but I don't think that is doable or the focus.
                          Last edited by Speed; 12-22-2009, 12:31 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                            Originally posted by GuffeyRay View Post
                            Now tell me what Dale did after the trade? I believe that you place way too much value on Dale. The other teams did not set up their game plans on how they were going to handle the one dimensional Dale but they sure did worry about stopping Smits.
                            You mean other than be the starting center for a playoff team? Or how about later on in his career where he returned here and helped Reggie take an under staffed (yet thanks to Dale never undermaned) team to the playoffs.

                            I value Rik as well, so we are NOT going to be having a debate over those two because I've said a million times that if you could combine the two players together you would have a David Robinson or Hakeem type player.

                            However since they were seperated they were good for each other. Rik on the offensive end and Dale on the defensive end.


                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                            • #44
                              Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                              And we are still looking for Dale Davis. Everybody on this board loved DD, I believe. I absolutely loved having DD and Antonio Davis together with Smits. That's why I am clamoring for a PF/C in this draft, so that we can get back to that type of front court rotation. Solid defensively, lots of strength and size, shot blocking, and complementary strong side scoring and weak side offensive rebounding. I think our front court of the future needs a starting PF with some size and rebounding to complement Hibby. Hans is the perfect first big off the bench. The only way I would change my hopes is if we luck ourselves into John Wall.

                              We are always comparing every PF we get to DD. Murphy is everything that DD isn't. I think subconsciously, that is half the reason he gets a bad rap. The other reason is that we see what he brings to the team, and its not conducive to winning with this roster. He is a good player, but better suited elsewhere. That is just from a basketball standpoint.

                              Financially, it makes all the sense in the world to make a Murphy for Z and Powe deal. Powe would be somebody the Cavs would give up on a minimum two year deal and not Hickson. LeBron really likes Hickson and would be pissed. I would not be opposed to making a deal for a $5M expiring and a guy with three years left at $5M, assuming he is a solid young guy such as Brandon Bass. Or maybe Milwaukee would trade some of their piecemeal expiring contracts to us for Murphy. He would be an interesting dynamic on that team with the way they can shoot and they have a solid big in Bogut. He complements the athleticism they have at PF as well and makes their front court rotation more versatile, which is something he doesn't do for us. Plus, they are looking like a playoff team now and they won't have cap space next year to make a major move anyway, but have the room to take his contract on without issue.
                              "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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                              • #45
                                Re: Pacers looking to make a "win now" move?

                                Originally posted by duke dynamite View Post
                                I can partially agree with you, Peck. But one thing that this trade did do was help create a player that fans could rally around for quite some time, and even though it didn't pan out - after Reggie retired.

                                Winning was a very big part of the equation, but JO was an all-star for many years while being on this team. It brought a sense of pride to the fans and the community that we had a player of that caliber on this roster.
                                more importantly what we need now....JO put more butts in the seats.
                                "To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift." - Steve Prefontaine

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