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Thread: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    What real advantage is there for the Pacers to trade for Big Z just to buy him out and let him go back to the Cavs. Now if we get Hickson that might be a different story however you have to remember who our coach is. You would probably see more of Brandon Rush at the four somehow.
    FWIW, the Cavs wanted Stephen Jackson very, very badly but they absolutely refused to give up Hickson to get him. He's off the table.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Next season Troy becomes one of the most valuable trading assets in the NBA and even this year around the trade deadline you can get better value for him.
    I understand what you are saying here Peck but sometimes I think a player who has an expiring contract has an overratted trade value.

    The Cavs are in that situation with Big Z.

    The only way their large salary is really worth having in a trade, even expiring, is if you can package a young up and coming player for a proven all star type. Other wise about the only thing the Pacers are going to be able to get are average/below average players with longer contracts than Murphy.

    I don't disagree with you that Murphy's trade value will be higher this time next year. I just wonder if it's really going to benefit the Pacers that much.

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Let me throw this question out there.

    Suppose Troy was making only 6M this year and 7M next season, what would the Pacers plan be?
    I don't know what the Pacers plan would be, however most on this board don't want Troy even if he played for free. Sad but true.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    I don't know what the Pacers plan would be, however most on this board don't want Troy playing 36mpg and starting even if he played for free. Sad but true.
    Fixed.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by rommie View Post
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    I understand what you are saying here Peck but sometimes I think a player who has an expiring contract has an overratted trade value.

    The Cavs are in that situation with Big Z.

    The only way their large salary is really worth having in a trade, even expiring, is if you can package a young up and coming player for a proven all star type. Other wise about the only thing the Pacers are going to be able to get are average/below average players with longer contracts than Murphy.

    I don't disagree with you that Murphy's trade value will be higher this time next year. I just wonder if it's really going to benefit the Pacers that much.
    If it doesn't then we are truely screwed. The entire point of the "three year plan" is to have all of the contracts going out together so that we can get value for them.

    God I really hope the Pacers aren't trying to just let the salary walk and try and build up through free agency and mid first round draft picks.


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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Fixed.
    Correct. I've always said he'd be good as a 20-25 mpg as a #7-8 guy coming off the bench for a good team. That'd be a good role for him.

    I hope that's not considered hating.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Fixed.
    My point exactly.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    My point exactly.
    Not if your point was we want him off the team completely no matter what. Some of us would be fine to have him as a limited reserve. A 3-point specialist you bring in for about 10 minutes a game. I'd welcome him in that role.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Not if your point was we want him off the team completely no matter what. Some of us would be fine to have him as a limited reserve. A 3-point specialist you bring in for about 10 minutes a game. I'd welcome him in that role.
    Ok, let's start this over. Most on this board(excluding you), don't want Troy on the team period, they just want him gone. BTW, don't discount his rebounding numbers so easily.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If it doesn't then we are truely screwed. The entire point of the "three year plan" is to have all of the contracts going out together so that we can get value for them.

    God I really hope the Pacers aren't trying to just let the salary walk and try and build up through free agency and mid first round draft picks.
    The big contracts expiring next year are:

    Murphy $12mm
    Dunleavy $10.6mm
    Ford $8.5mm
    Foster $6.7mm
    Tinsley $5.5mm Can we trade this, or is that off-limits because of the buy-out?
    S. Jones $1.5mm

    Assuming Tinsley's contract is locked in and can't be moved (which I think is the case), that leaves 2 very big expiring contracts, 1 big expiring contract, 1 fairly big expiring contract, and one small expiring contract.

    I don't see all of those being traded. However, I would like to think at least one or two of them will be.

  13. #61

    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Correct. I've always said he'd be good as a 20-25 mpg as a #7-8 guy coming off the bench for a good team. That'd be a good role for him.

    I hope that's not considered hating.
    Agree. Recognizing Murphy's limitations and that he would be a good fit on a better team doesn't constitute hating him. He belongs on a team with an $80M payroll where a smart coach can maximize his talents. Meanwhile we develop players who may have a future on this team...

    Further to max out the payroll year after year with a team that performs poorly is just bad business and won't be sustained by the owners.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    Ok, let's start this over. Most on this board(excluding you), don't want Troy on the team period, they just want him gone. BTW, don't discount his rebounding numbers so easily.
    Don't count me in that group...and I'm probably harder on him than I should be.

    The beef I have is that he is played over 20 minutes a game...and during the 4th quarter. Off the bench for a max of 20 minutes during the first 3 quarters would be fine.

    I just find it funny that the Pacers stressed defense so much, but play their absolute worst defensive big more minutes than anybody.

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  17. #63

    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Maybe we could get O'Brien to come here and read our comments then. He might find himself at odds with the direction of the franchise as he did in Boston and just resign.


    I'm sure that's on the top of many of a X-mas list! Unfortunately, it will never happen if Jimmy ever has plans of being a NBA HC again. It's either sink or swim IN.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    Ok, let's start this over. Most on this board(excluding you), don't want Troy on the team period, they just want him gone.
    I think you're overstating the point here. Count me in with the group that would love to use Troy 10-20 minutes a game depending on how well his shot is falling in any given game. It seems pretty clear that even when Murph is having a great shooting night his legs are a little tired by the 4th quarter. I'd even be OK with re-signing him at a reasonable price for a couple more years to play just such a role.

    Honestly, a lot of the over the top "Murph just plain sucks/is useless" posts seem to pop up in the game threads, where there is a somewhat different population of posters and a less analytical tone in general.
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  19. #65

    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Hmmmm going back to Murphy not seeing "eye to eye" with the "Pacers" (does that mean front office, or teammates?) ... does this add more fuel to the report earlier that he was sulking that was out 3-4 weeks ago?

    Hmm.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    If it doesn't then we are truely screwed. The entire point of the "three year plan" is to have all of the contracts going out together so that we can get value for them.
    No. The whole point of a three year plan is acknowledging that you're going to have to build this team slowly. Three years was the time frame thanks to the TJ / TMurda / MDJ contracts ending around then. That doesn't mean that we have to wait until then to move the deals. We still have to cut down on our 2010-2011 numbers to stay under the LT. If we can move Troy for Big Z; buyout cash; Powe and possibly Green -- that's likely the best deal we'll be getting several months from now too. Or would you rather have an overpaid and broken down Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Tinsley $5.5mm [b]Can we trade this, or is that off-limits because of the
    ...
    Assuming Tinsley's contract is locked in and can't be moved (which I think is the case)
    Nope, can't be traded. That was the advantage of exiling him last year. Unfortunately we couldn't move him before the Magic found Alston.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
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    Suppose Troy was making only 6M this year and 7M next season, what would the Pacers plan be?
    The Pacers would still be trading him, but that's also supposing TJ Ford was 6'11" and shot better than Kobe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan46 View Post
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    Hmmmm going back to Murphy not seeing "eye to eye" with the "Pacers" (does that mean front office, or teammates?) ... does this add more fuel to the report earlier that he was sulking that was out 3-4 weeks ago?

    Hmm.

    -- Steve --
    More likely the author read the pouting report and just used that to form his opinion.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
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    I think you're overstating the point here. Count me in with the group that would love to use Troy 10-20 minutes a game depending on how well his shot is falling in any given game. It seems pretty clear that even when Murph is having a great shooting night his legs are a little tired by the 4th quarter. I'd even be OK with re-signing him at a reasonable price for a couple more years to play just such a role.

    Honestly, a lot of the over the top "Murph just plain sucks/is useless" posts seem to pop up in the game threads, where there is a somewhat different population of posters and a less analytical tone in general.
    I don't think I am overstating in the least and there have been many many posts outside of the game threads where Troy is trashed and trashed by some of most respected posters on this board. I for one will be glad when he is moved. I do think his contributions are under valued and will be missed in the long run.

  22. #68

    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    More likely the author read the pouting report and just used that to form his opinion.
    Quite possible. I was debating which way sounded more likely.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Murphy is a good player. He gets double-doubles on a regular basis and can shoot from the outside. He plays team defense and is a good veteran talent.

    He and others on this team do not fit the long-term plans of the team. That being said, I do not have a problem with him on our team per se, but if a team is willing to trade for him and hasten our long-term plans by giving the P's some salary flexibility, then go for it.

    Obviously, he will fit well with a team alongside some players better than others, if they can cover up his weakenesses, but Troy definitely has some strengths and doesn't seem to have any chemistry problems/off-court issues.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    He plays team defense and is a good veteran talent.
    Murphy is a poor team defender. One of the worst in the league at his position.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Murphy is a poor team defender. One of the worst in the league at his position.
    He plays well alongside Foster.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Troy's defense has been better lately.

    I mean I think some people are coming out here and saying he can't do a thing when on the floor. He's improved very much this year.

    Before we played the Grizzlies and Spurs, Troy was playing very well defensively and offensively and helped us win. Now he's recently had some poor games and everyone is back to criticizing and make it sound as if he hasn't played well at all this season.

    I don't get it?

    I know he's paid a hell of a lot of money, but I don't think that's something we should be concerned about, we want money going to deserving players and he deserves a good amount. I think he's paid at a fair price, maybe a little high, but not too bad.

    If he's traded he's traded and none of us can do anything about it and if he stays he stays and there's nothing we can do about it.

    I say support him as a player on our favorite team and look the good things he can do.

    Let the disagreeing begin!

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  28. #73
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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    If it wins us games, heck, do it.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    FWIW, the Cavs wanted Stephen Jackson very, very badly but they absolutely refused to give up Hickson to get him. He's off the table.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Cavs valued Troy Murphy more than the inefficient, proven cancer Jackson.

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    Default Re: Murphy on the Cavs' radar

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    If it wins us games, heck, do it.
    I agree that team comes first. He's been a help when he was playing well prior to going the 2 game road trip.

    If we trade him away and get someone good in the future and do well, then I'd appreciate it that we traded him.

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