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Thread: Couple of quick thoughts

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Couple of quick thoughts

    Lest I be accused of overlooking anything good and only finding bad for certain players I want to make sure I say this up front.

    Troy Murphy has put together two solid back to back games on both sides of the floor.

    Nobody is more surprised than me to be saying that, but it is what it is. So I want to give two big thumbs up to Murphy for two very solid games.

    Also while I am in the process of eating some humble pie slices I might as well say this as well.

    Mike Dunleavy has been nothing short of fantastic since his return.

    Now to be fair I am just very disappointed in Brandon Rush because he was given this role on a silver platter, hell O'Brien would not even take it away from him weeks ago when he did not deserve it.

    But that takes away nothing from the game Mike has played. If nothing else just having someone who can hit a d@mn free throw is a miracle sometimes on our club.

    So while I still do not believe that either of them is the long term solution for our club I will give both of them positive reviews for the past couple of games.

    Hell Murphy has even been blocking shots.

    Roy Hibbert had a great game vs. the Nets and a less than stellar game vs. the Wizards. Not sure what it is about seeing a Pacer uniform that causes Haywood to rebound and block shots but I wish he would quit it.

    I am really looking forward to the few min. Roy will get to play tonight vs. the Magic. Howard will kill him like he does everyone but I love to see Roy get up shots that Superman has trouble getting to.

    Two more games under the belt for Tyler. I know he is somewhat controversial for some reason but from what I have seen I really like what he brings to the floor.

    He is relentless and have I mentioned in the past the guy is strong??? Good to see he is starting to get his free throws down, now if we can just work on shot selection...

    T.J. Ford drives me crazy.

    Brandon Rush makes me want to cry. Didn't this guy score points for us last year? What a waste of a sophomore season this has been so far.

    D. Jones fall was scary. Although the whole time all I could see was Seth sitting at home yelling at his TV. "see I told you Hansbrough can not jump" as Dahntay went up and over Tyler to get that board. The fact that he checked back in at the end of the game was surprising. I just hope he is not to stiff or sore to play, however he just doesn’t' strike me as a guy who would let stiffness keep him from playing.

    BTW, I want to make sure that he is given proper credit for his defense on CDR in the Nets game. His defense on him was stellar and virtually made him a non-factor during the game.

    Jeff has now had a couple of games to rest up, which is good because I am certain he will get heavy duty usage tonight.

    I hate to keep picking on him here but would anybody else be offended if Luther Head got some of Brandon's min.? I like the defense and rebounding but from our wing players I really think we need a little more offense.

    Earl Watson is the perfect back up point guard. Now if we could just get the perfect starter.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    good thoughts peck. i think a lot of us resonate with it

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    I really don't know what's going on in Brandon's head, but like everybody else here I hope that he puts the dots together, because he has the talent and tools to be a decent two-way player for us at the wing.

    I really like his defence, but I agree with you here, Peck, a little more offense would be a very welcome addition. 10-12 PPG with a decent FG% would be nice nice. A bit more slashing, while keeping his defense on his current level or even better if he can squeeze it out.

    I'm still positive, but he has something to prove IMHO and the pressure will only get bigger for him the longer he plays like this.

    I also have to eat some of my words considering Tyler. He's been a lot better then I expected, even though he was slated as "NBA-ready". I hope this is not his ceiling though, and neither do I expect it to be. He's fierce and makes other players foul him, both nice qualities we didn't have in abundance. I would like him to have a better FG% and thus take or better said finish his shots a bit better, but like with Rush... you can't have it all, immediately, and Tyler is just a rookie, so no sweat for now.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    He is relentless and have I mentioned in the past the guy is strong??? Good to see he is starting to get his free throws down, now if we can just work on shot selection...
    Well in his last 2 games Tyler is 15 for 32 for 47% from the field. It's only 2 games, but I love that watching him you can see the adjustments he's making. I wish I could say the same for our coach more often. Either way, I think the FT shooting is just a sign that he's settling down and getting more comfortable. Which probably is contributing to his better shooting from the field as well.

    I'm diggin it.

    -- Steve --

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Our performance will improve if Dahntay's injury limits his minutes due to the reduction of offensive mistakes we will have which diminish the overall effectiveness of the flow of the game when Dunleavy is in. He and TJ nearly took us out of the Wizards game with their wild drives. If Dahntay hadn't hit a couple of lucky shots, he wouldn't have even hit the 3-12 that he hit. His stat line showing one TO is misleading in that many of his poor shots were the equivalent of TO's, as were several of TJ's.

    From a personality standpoint, Dahntay is the anti-Rush. If Dahntay could learn some of the traits of restraint shown by Rush, and Rush could learn some of the aggressiveness of Dahntay, we would be in great shape. Unfortunately, neither seems likely to occur any time soon.

    Murphy is finally getting his timing back, which is good. Maybe he will score in the teens consistently. His scoring against the Wizards tellingly went to zero for the 4th due both to losing his legs and adjustments by the Wizards.

    TJ is still TJ, and still is making poor decisions. He has reduced jumping and throwing the ball away, but he is taking low percentage shots frequently, and he contributed to hobbling us offensively. He did defend Boykins fairly well towards the end, though, and deserves credit for that.

    AJ Price deserves playing time, but we pretty well can rest assured that there is no realistic chance of him getting any without a significant injury to one of our other two veteran point guards. AJ could have benefitted us in the third quarter against the Wizards, giving the other two guards rest so that they would be more fresh down the stretch.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Kudos to Murph, as Peck states, he went harder to the offensive glass these two games than any games that I've seen him play.

    He also was agressive on offense and hustled his butt off to get back on D.

    I've been on the bandwagon to rip on him, but he deserves some credit here.
    Last edited by Speed; 12-14-2009 at 10:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Peck, awesome post.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Peck, awesome post.
    x2

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    If we dont' have have all our bigs active for tonight we lose this game. Soloman and McRoberts should be playing tonight. Best way to contain howard and disrupt the magics shooters is to send him to the line where he is terrible. Otherwise you'll see lewis and Carter go off on us.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    I've felt for a long time that having MDjr on this team would be far more of a plus than a minus. He really does play sound, fundamental basketball. His head is always in the game - ALWAYS!!! As crazy as it may sound, I think you could build a team around him provided you had players like Hansborough, Foster, Watson, Head and even Hibbert out there, players who are "students" of the game and are unselfish and want to win. I can't say it enough; it's sooooo good having Mike Dunleavy back out on the floor.

    I think BRush is finally starting to get it. He's starting to realize it's all about him playing with confidence now, knowing that nobody can change his situation but him. And so what we're starting to see with Murphy driving to the basket more and Dunleavy getting his shooting touch back is BRush under alot less pressure to score the ball from the perimeter. To that, JOB had it right in the sense that our post-players needed to start scoring underneath more. And that brings me to Troy Murphy...

    Has anyone noticed Murphy has begun to take his game inside more over the last 2-3 games? I don't think it's a mere accident. The assistance coaches have been getting onto him about passing up shots and not attacking the basket more as mentioned in this IndyStar.com article. Good to see he's finally starting to mix it up abit. BRush has also started to do that, too, instead of merely being a catch-n-shoot type of player - which he really isn't. BRush works better when he's moving and attacking the basket.

    I love our "Energy Crew" as mentioned above and eluded to in today's IndyStar.com article. When it comes down to it, I think this crew does alot to bring balance to this team. I think that will level out more once Hansborough and Dunleavy's minutes are increased.

    Overall, I like what I've seen out of this team since Granger went down. That's not to say that now the "blame" has shifted from Murphy and TJ or that they're at fault one way or another. Just that with Murphy, Ford and Granger out, the Pacers seem to be a completely different ball team. And I'm really not sure why that is.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Our performance will improve if Dahntay's injury limits his minutes due to the reduction of offensive mistakes we will have which diminish the overall effectiveness of the flow of the game when Dunleavy is in. He and TJ nearly took us out of the Wizards game with their wild drives. If Dahntay hadn't hit a couple of lucky shots, he wouldn't have even hit the 3-12 that he hit. His stat line showing one TO is misleading in that many of his poor shots were the equivalent of TO's, as were several of TJ's.

    From a personality standpoint, Dahntay is the anti-Rush. If Dahntay could learn some of the traits of restraint shown by Rush, and Rush could learn some of the aggressiveness of Dahntay, we would be in great shape. Unfortunately, neither seems likely to occur any time soon.

    Murphy is finally getting his timing back, which is good. Maybe he will score in the teens consistently. His scoring against the Wizards tellingly went to zero for the 4th due both to losing his legs and adjustments by the Wizards.

    TJ is still TJ, and still is making poor decisions. He has reduced jumping and throwing the ball away, but he is taking low percentage shots frequently, and he contributed to hobbling us offensively. He did defend Boykins fairly well towards the end, though, and deserves credit for that.

    AJ Price deserves playing time, but we pretty well can rest assured that there is no realistic chance of him getting any without a significant injury to one of our other two veteran point guards. AJ could have benefitted us in the third quarter against the Wizards, giving the other two guards rest so that they would be more fresh down the stretch.
    perfectly stated

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Overall, I like what I've seen out of this team since Granger went down. That's not to say that now the "blame" has shifted from Murphy and TJ or that they're at fault one way or another. Just that with Murphy, Ford and Granger out, the Pacers seem to be a completely different ball team. And I'm really not sure why that is.
    This is pretty key, Its pretty much known that Granger hadn't really practiced with the team much at all this year due to the heel injury. With him being out so long he will have to come back and play a role rather than be "the guy" He should be able to see this sitting on the bench. As he will see the kind of movement and energy required for this team to win games. If he comes back chucking 3pters with no abandon, this team will be a lottery pick for sure.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Overall, I like what I've seen out of this team since Granger went down. That's not to say that now the "blame" has shifted from Murphy and TJ or that they're at fault one way or another. Just that with Murphy, Ford and Granger out, the Pacers seem to be a completely different ball team. And I'm really not sure why that is.
    I'll take a stab at this......

    As for Ford.....I just think that he dominates the ball a little too much....and I think ( at times ) he has poor decision making skills when it comes to passing the ball ( duh ). The best way to put it is to compare how the Team functions when Ford is on the court compared to Watson.

    As for Granger.....I just think that the rest of the Team falls into the same habit that the JONeal-led Team had when JONeal was here.....the ball goes to our Top Player...and the rest of the team ( mostly ) decides to stop and watch. There isn't as much ball and Player movement. Does JO'B run more "set Plays" when it comes to the Team and Granger ( in general )? The impression that I get is that we don't and that it's more of a "do what you want as long as you take a good jumpshot". The Players may have more freedom on the offensive end....but it may lead to more situations like what we see now where the Player and ball movement slows down. I'd think that if we did run more Plays...that we'd see more Player and ball movement then we do...only because that's what they are supposed to do.

    As for Murphy.....when Murphy is out....which suggests that we have some combination of Hansbrough/Foster/Hibbert at the PF/C rotation on the court.....I notice that we are far more active inside the paint while grabbing for rebounds. Both Foster and Hansbrough are already "energy" guys that hustle, scrap and fight for every rebound. I'd venture to say that WHEN Foster goes down with injury ( likely due to a sore back ), I'd think that Solo and McRoberts could do a somewhat decent "impression" of Foster since they are "athletic Energy" guys that can rebound and provide adequate defense. Hibbert...despite his speed and footwork....does a little of the same....but not because he's an "energy" guy....but because he's IMHO tall enough to try to grab a piece of the ball ( and therefore fight for the ball ) even if it's just him against 3 other opposing players. It may not be very often....but I recall several times where the rest of the Team is hustling back on a failed FGA and I see Hibbert fighting for rebounding above a fray of opposing Players.
    On top of that, although I hope that he's able to remain more consistent on his shooting % and shot selection....Hansbrough has shown that he can be productive on the offensive end...which makes up for losing Murphy's scoring when he sits.

    Despite what may appear to be another "rant" against Murphy....this isn't....I recognize that Offensive Rebounds is just not his forte....whereas Defensive Rebounds are. It doesn't mean that I don't think that Murphy isn't completely active inside the paint......it's just that it seems that we get far more 2nd chance attempts when we see Hansbrough/Foster/Hibbert on the court compared to when Murphy is. To me, this is far more important since we have been a fairly poor shooting % team trying to take far more FGA then we should be.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-14-2009 at 12:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Credit where credit is due, sure. Murph did play halfway decent the last couple of games. The Wizards game he did make a few good defensive plays, enough to break even with all of his bad defensive plays, plus he hit his shots prior to the 4th.

    But even the sun shines on a dog's *** every once in a while, let's see him string together 10 games in a row without being a negative factor on the floor.

    If they have to play Murph, I prefer he play early in the game and definately not the 4th quarter and especially crunch time. He is the worst 4th quarter player in the history of the NBA... hyperbole? maybe, but not by much.

    Mike Jr. on the other hand has played fantastic in almost every game so far. Everyone talks about this being Rush's big oppurtunity, I think it is Mike's. I have never thought he mixed well with Danny on the floor, and when they are both healthy, it is best to bring Mike off the bench.

    TJ has Tinsleyitis, and has had it all year. That is when you take the ball to the hole and airball layups. Thank god for Mike Jr. in that last game, but he should not have had to bail us out. TJ should have made the freakin layup in the first place and not airballed it. How do you airball a layup? /ponder That seems like it would be harder to do than making one.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    If they have to play Murph, I prefer he play early in the game and definately not the 4th quarter and especially crunch time. He is the worst 4th quarter player in the history of the NBA... hyperbole? maybe, but not by much.
    I can't disagree with you here. From what I can tell, his production in the 1st 3 Qtrs far out perform his lack of production in the 4th Qtr. I think he did hit a key 3pt shot at the top of the key in the 4th in the last game....but overall....I think that he just doesn't have the necessary lift in his legs by that time in order to be as effective as he is in the 1st 3 QTRs. If JO'B managed his time better...specifically when he is used on the floor ( like using him more in the 2nd half compared to the 1st half ) I'd think that would have "fresher legs" in the 4th QTR and therefore be more productive. I've always wanted to limit his minutes to about 28 mpg...not because I don't want to see him on the floor....it's because I just think that he's running on fumes by the end of the game ( which is when JO'B decides to go with his "vets" ).
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Glad to see Troy getting back the respect he deserves from others (not you in particular, Peck)

    He's been defending well lately and getting double-doubles again.

    Good informative post though. Thanks for it.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Brandon Rush makes me want to cry. Didn't this guy score points for us last year? What a waste of a sophomore season this has been so far.

    I hate to keep picking on him here but would anybody else be offended if Luther Head got some of Brandon's min.? I like the defense and rebounding but from our wing players I really think we need a little more offense.
    I continue to love Rush's current defense and his defensive potential, so he doesn't make me want to cry, and I can't really see saying his season has been as bad as a waste, but I have definitely been frustrated with his offense. I wouldn't be offended if Luther got some of Brandon's minutes. Luther has performed quite well on the offensive end in limited minutes.

    That said, it should be noted that Brandon is on somewhat of an upward swing at the moment and it seems to me that his body language and movement have noticeably improved on the offensive end (especially when AJ or Watson is running the point).

    Last three games Rush is shooting 50% (13 of 26), averaging 4.6 rebounds, 1.3 assists, .6 blocks, .3 steals, 9.3 pts - he's not too far from the 10-12 pts a game some have said they'd be happy with. So I also wouldn't be offended if Brandon continued to get around 30 minutes to see if this is a blip or if he is finally getting on track on the offensive end.
    Last edited by gummy; 12-14-2009 at 01:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    And so many wanted Murphy benched and couldn't understand why O'Brien wouldn't bench him.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    And so many wanted Murphy benched and couldn't understand why O'Brien wouldn't bench him.
    We're just fans. Some of us obviously know more than others, but none of us are in the locker room or are privy to practices. And we don't know what the coach wants a particular player to do.

    That said, I've often wondered what players think about fan boards. I bet they get some good laughs, and shake their heads at some of the dumb things we fans say.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    We're just fans. Some of us obviously know more than others, but none of us are in the locker room or are privy to practices. And we don't know what the coach wants a particular player to do.

    That said, I've often wondered what players think about fan boards. I bet they get some good laughs, and shake their heads at some of the dumb things we fans say.
    Of that I have no doubt.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    And so many wanted Murphy benched and couldn't understand why O'Brien wouldn't bench him.
    Let's not get carried away here. I gave credit where credit is due but IMO there was a significant change in the style of play that Troy has had over the past couple of games as well. Not just that he is starting to hit his shots, which is a good thing btw.

    But that in no way changes my mind about the previous 12 games.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    We're just fans. Some of us obviously know more than others, but none of us are in the locker room or are privy to practices. And we don't know what the coach wants a particular player to do.

    That said, I've often wondered what players think about fan boards. I bet they get some good laughs, and shake their heads at some of the dumb things we fans say.
    I don't think it is a matter of knowing or not knowing a lot. My point was that we rarely give the coach the benefit of the doubt about such things - especially when things aren't going great.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Let's not get carried away here. I gave credit where credit is due but IMO there was a significant change in the style of play that Troy has had over the past couple of games as well. Not just that he is starting to hit his shots, which is a good thing btw.

    But that in no way changes my mind about the previous 12 games.
    My point had nothing to do with Murphy. My point was about some of the coach criticism

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Is it possible Murphy's recent improved play is because his back is finally better? Back injuries can be pretty limiting, even after they're good enough for a guy to play.

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    Default Re: Couple of quick thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee View Post
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    Is it possible Murphy's recent improved play is because his back is finally better? Back injuries can be pretty limiting, even after they're good enough for a guy to play.
    Simple answer is yes.

    More complicated answer is I don't know because there are variables.

    However in this case it certainly may be a case of his back is healing and therfor feeling better.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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