Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 54

Thread: O'Brien says team to go small...

  1. #26
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Ford
    Price
    Watson
    Dunleavy
    Murphy

    NOW THAT'S THINKIN' WITH YER DIPSTICK, JIMMY!

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  3. #27

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ford
    Price
    Watson
    Dunleavy
    Murphy

    NOW THAT'S THINKIN' WITH YER DIPSTICK, JIMMY!
    hehe... I can't wait to see that group! These next few weeks are going to be epic, record breaking times! I bet we average 120 pts allowed till the Allstar break.

  4. #28
    10 - 32 - 50 31andonly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,581

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Serious question: Why is good ol' Diener actually not getting any minutes at all??
    Thank you Jeff.

  5. #29
    .
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by 31andonly View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Serious question: Why is good ol' Diener actually not getting any minutes at all??
    You know that toe problem he'd been having for what seems like an eternity? He ended up having surgery. So he's not available for at least a few weeks.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  7. #30
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,793

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    [SARCASM]This is exactly what I've been waiting to here from JO'B....this could only mean more Murphy at the Center spot. His underrated athleticsm, ability to score and defend in the post should more then make up for Granger's overrated athleticsm and lackluster performance as a backup Frontcourt Player. I'm glad that we are finally using Murphy the way that he should be used. Small ball always works with a Big Man like Murphy. I'm also guessing that this means that Dunleavy will likely play some PF minutes.......which is even better.[/SARCASM]
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-09-2009 at 01:05 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  8. #31
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Ford
    Price
    Watson
    Dunleavy
    Murphy

    NOW THAT'S THINKIN' WITH YER DIPSTICK, JIMMY!
    I just threw up a little after seeing a lineup that small.

    We still have some bigs who still need to play and we have enough smaller players who can step up in their regular position.

  9. #32
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,793

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm hoping regardless of who gets minutes we see a similar type thing that happened in Sacramento when Kevin Martin went down. That would be awesome!
    What happened to the Kings when KMart went down?

    If you are referring to this season.....they had Tyreke Evans to pick up the slack...on top of that....they had a Coach that was able to adjust his offense/defense to fit the strengths and weaknesses on his roster.

    In what way could these things in any way translate into the situation that we face now?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  10. #33
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,793

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I just threw up a little after seeing a lineup that small.
    It won't be that small....but honestly.....I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a huge up-tick in the minutes for Dunleavy/Murphy/Foster as the primary core that JO'B uses while surrounding them with some combination of Ford/Watson/BRush/Inferno/Hibbert/Head.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  11. #34
    Member BornReady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    2,751

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    lets see what luther heads got!

  12. #35
    Custom User Titleist
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacer Purgatory Praying for Paul
    Posts
    3,564
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    This has got to be the solution! It Is Obvious Now!

    I believe I remember reading that Foster played point guard at times in high school! Maybe we should go BIG with a totally unorthodox lineup instead!

    PG - Foster
    SG - Murphy
    C - Hibbert
    PF - Solo
    SF - DJones

    Talk about mismatches! Jeff could post up anybody else at that position in the league! We also would not constantly have our point guard dribble penetrating into traffic and then jumping in the air like we all hate! The interior defenders of the other teams would be forced to truly move away from the basket, opening things up for Hibbert (it would be a shame that we couldn't pass it into him without throwing it away, but still...)!

    We would have a mix of offensive options, rebounding, Murph could stay at the arc on both ends of the floor, shot blocking from nearly any position on the floor at any time, and a perimeter defender who also is a significant offensive threat when he slashes into the paint at random, especially with the bigs of the other teams scrambling around trying to cover our perimeter bigs! The lane would be Wide Open!

    How can we make sure that this is being considered!?!?!?!?

    Please! For The Good of the Franchise! How can we make sure that Jim thinks about ALL of the options?!?!?!?

  13. #36
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,741

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    In fact with Granger out we know he won't be playing any PF minutes, so that might mean more minutes for the big guys.
    I'll bet you a million dollars Dunleavy gets time at PF in the next two weeks.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  14. #37

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    If we need a SF, Eddie Gill is available.

  15. #38
    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    3,926
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Well, the lineup stuff has been beaten to death and what I think is already scattered around the board, so I'm going to bring up something else.

    Am I the only one who doesn't like that O'Brien has several different variations of "our guys aren't all that good individually," that he has been more than happy to share with the media over the past couple of years?

    The debate about how much talent there actually is on the team is not the point, and I'll set aside whether or not coach is trying to shirk some responsibility here. My main issue is that these guys are what he has to work with and I doubt that calling their overall talent level into question in public is inspiring. Tell your GM. Hell, tell the guys in the locker room if you have to. Tell the media...? I don't like it. Coaches are a part of team chemistry too!
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to gummy For This Useful Post:


  17. #39

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I just threw up a little after seeing a lineup that small.

    We still have some bigs who still need to play and we have enough smaller players who can step up in their regular position.

    I dunno, that could be a fun lineup..and by fun I mean hilarious.

  18. #40
    Member bkenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Indy/Purdue
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Here are some +/- stats, especially for all those Muprh hatters that always complain about it. The link has all of them but here are the top 10 +/- lineups......seems to be the smaller lineups do better, so maybe JOB is listening to you guys complain about +/- stats.

    8 out of the top 10 are lineups with 3+ gaurds

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusmi...=9&team=Pacers

    1. (+39) E. Watson D. Jones D. Granger B. Rush R. Hibbert
    2. (+23) T. Ford D. Jones D. Granger B. Rush R. Hibbert
    3. (+12) J. Foster T. Murphy E. Watson M. Dunleavy D. Granger
    4. (+9) T. Murphy M. Dunleavy T. Ford D. Granger B. Rush
    5. (+9) T. Murphy E. Watson D. Jones L. Head S. Jones
    6. (+9) T. Ford D. Jones S. Jones T. Hansbrough A. Price
    7. (+9) T. Ford L. Head S. Jones B. Rush T. Hansbrough
    8. (+7) L. Head J. McRoberts B. Rush R. Hibbert A. Price
    9. (+7) J. Foster T. Murphy T. Ford D. Jones B. Rush
    10. (+6) D. Jones B. Rush R. Hibbert T. Hansbrough A. Price

    and yes I realize D. Jones plays G/F, but he is small at the Forward position. On the same note, I left Dun off the Guard spot because he is not a small guard...

  19. #41
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,628

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm pretty sure if you asked him what the solution to the conflict in the Middle East he would determine a way to go small and get up more shots.
    For the....win? Loss? What is it when it's dead-on but depressingly so?


    Let's be honest, JOB probably lives for getting a flat tire. He gets to go out and pull off a big tire and swap it for the tiny temp spare. That must bring him real joy deep inside.


    The dude almost had a logjam at the wing. The one place the team could legitimately take an injury hit and he turns it into Defcon Small.

    I can handle the losing, but this kind of stuff is tough to put up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem to Buck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'll bet you a million dollars Dunleavy gets time at PF in the next two weeks.
    The man has a real problem, I don't think it's appropriate to take advantage of it for your own personal gain.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:


  21. #42

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    bkenny, what you say is correct, but note that the list you present is for overall +/-. It is not necessarily the best lineups because it is affected by the number of minutes the various combinations have been allowed to play together.

    I looked at your link and noticed a whole different list of best combinations under the "+/- per minute" column. Looking at it that way, the best lineup is: Watson, Dunleavy, Jones, Head, Hibbert.

    The Ford Jones Granger Rush Hibbert one you cite as #2 is actually the worst of all on a per-minute basis.
    Last edited by Putnam; 12-09-2009 at 02:48 PM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  22. #43
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,686

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by gummy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Well, the lineup stuff has been beaten to death and what I think is already scattered around the board, so I'm going to bring up something else.

    Am I the only one who doesn't like that O'Brien has several different variations of "our guys aren't all that good individually," that he has been more than happy to share with the media over the past couple of years?

    The debate about how much talent there actually is on the team is not the point, and I'll set aside whether or not coach is trying to shirk some responsibility here. My main issue is that these guys are what he has to work with and I doubt that calling their overall talent level into question in public is inspiring. Tell your GM. Hell, tell the guys in the locker room if you have to. Tell the media...? I don't like it. Coaches are a part of team chemistry too!
    Yes, I thought about that too when I read his comments today.

    While I never really have a problem with a coach calling out a player every now and then I think he really has not done a very good job this year of instilling confidence in his players. I have been particularly distraught at the way he has treated Roy.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  23. #44
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,628

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by bkenny View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Here are some +/- stats, especially for all those Muprh hatters that always complain about it. The link has all of them but here are the top 10 +/- lineups......seems to be the smaller lineups do better, so maybe JOB is listening to you guys complain about +/- stats.

    8 out of the top 10 are lineups with 3+ gaurds

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusmi...=9&team=Pacers

    1. (+39) E. Watson D. Jones D. Granger B. Rush R. Hibbert
    2. (+23) T. Ford D. Jones D. Granger B. Rush R. Hibbert
    3. (+12) J. Foster T. Murphy E. Watson M. Dunleavy D. Granger
    4. (+9) T. Murphy M. Dunleavy T. Ford D. Granger B. Rush
    5. (+9) T. Murphy E. Watson D. Jones L. Head S. Jones
    6. (+9) T. Ford D. Jones S. Jones T. Hansbrough A. Price
    7. (+9) T. Ford L. Head S. Jones B. Rush T. Hansbrough
    8. (+7) L. Head J. McRoberts B. Rush R. Hibbert A. Price
    9. (+7) J. Foster T. Murphy T. Ford D. Jones B. Rush
    10. (+6) D. Jones B. Rush R. Hibbert T. Hansbrough A. Price

    and yes I realize D. Jones plays G/F, but he is small at the Forward position. On the same note, I left Dun off the Guard spot because he is not a small guard...
    None of these are double PG situations except a brief bit of Price with Ford. What you see instead is that the team is at it's best going with 3 wings, not 2 guards.

    Luther Head is much more a SG than PG in application, though he does keep the roster a bit smaller.


    I had not looked at 82games in quite awhile, but I'm more annoyed than ever seeing that my feeling was in fact correct and that lineups featuring Rush-DJ-Granger-Hibbert, and preferably Watson, are ones that work well.

    I also have been impressed with Head coming in to relieve one of those wings briefly (obviously filling the #2 spot no matter which wing leaves).

    OTOH, I've HATED the Ford-Watson combo.



    Also Putty is right about per minute vs. absolute, although some of the minutes are so low that you have noise in the data and can't trust it. However groups with perhaps 10+ minutes together do give us some kind of feel since they have likely played in multiple situations together.

    Going by that you see that the Ford version of Rush-DJ-Granger-Hibby is poor in comparison to the Watson version, and that many of the Watson based groups do very well.


    I would expect decent results from Watson-Rush-DJ-Dunleavy-Hibbert (or Foster even). Will we see that? Seems doubtful. Probably more like Ford-Watson-Head-Dunleavy-Murph quite a bit.

  24. #45
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,283

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    re: bkenny and putnam

    what's wrong with the link is that it only shows the top 5-man units. it doesn't show the lineups with negative +/-, for example.

    82games does show some of our worst 5-man groups

    http://www.82games.com/0910/0910IND2.HTM

    no surprises that the worst groups feature a front line of murphy and hibbert. by contrast, the small ball core of dahntay-rush-granger-hibbert looks awesome.

    btw putty, that phenomenal watson-dunleavy-dahntay-head-hibbert group has played all of 1 minute 28 sec together so i wouldn't put too much stock on that, yet.

  25. #46
    Member bkenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Indy/Purdue
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    no surprises that the worst groups feature a front line of murphy and hibbert. by contrast, the small ball core of dahntay-rush-granger-hibbert looks awesome.
    The real surprise is that people blame Murphy for being a bad defender, when he was never supposed to be. I do think he isn't doing what he is meant to on the offensive end, but I don't know why people complain about bad defending when he was never good to begin with.

    And there is a reason why him and Hibbert don't work together, and its because Murph cant defend and Hibbert isn't very good at help defense.

    That's why Hibbert gets so many blocks because he is always late helping out in the post when the defender is already getting the shot off. he is supposed to be there so he doesn't even have a chance at a shot.

  26. #47
    Member bkenny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Indy/Purdue
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Im just saying the small lineups last year tended to go on the best runs, and I have to believe that its because of JOB's offense.

    small lineups can move up and down the court more effectively and don't need that extra pass that the pacers don't do in the current system.

  27. #48
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,793

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'll bet you a million dollars Dunleavy gets time at PF in the next two weeks.
    I'm pretty sure that Dunleavy did see some time at the PF spot when we played against the Warriors.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  28. #49
    Gold Stagger Hoop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Greenwood
    Posts
    4,538
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Let's be honest, JOB probably lives for getting a flat tire. He gets to go out and pull off a big tire and swap it for the tiny temp spare. That must bring him real joy deep inside..
    That's the funniest thing I've read on here in a long time. Thanks for making me laugh while reading this depressing thread.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  29. #50

    Default Re: O'Brien says team to go small...

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think he'd be more successful with:

    Watson, Head, Dun, Solo, Foster

    If you want to push the tempo, move better without the ball, create spacing, get rebounds, block shots and better defend the PnR, THIS IS YOUR GROUP TO DO IT!
    AKA:

    2 guys who were released by their former teams
    1 guy who was a 3rd string center in Atlanta
    1 career bench player
    1 disappointment for a #3 pick

    Yes, indeed, this is your group to do it...but 'it' isn't winning.

Similar Threads

  1. The PD NBA Draft - Selection #8 - Milwaukee
    By Jose Slaughter in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-13-2008, 10:44 PM
  2. The PD NBA Draft - Selection 7 - LA Clippers
    By Jose Slaughter in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-10-2008, 10:59 AM
  3. The PD NBA Best Pick Left in the Draft 6
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-08-2008, 05:25 PM
  4. The PD NBA Best Pick Left in the Draft 2
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-24-2008, 09:42 PM
  5. SportsGuy eviscerates USA Basketball
    By Kegboy in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-04-2004, 03:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •