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D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

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  • D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

    For those you you that are tired of hearing or reading about the 5 game win streak you will want to avoid the comments I am bolding from today's Wells article.

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2009...s-seek-answers

    Indiana Pacers spent a week on the road hoping to find an identity.
    They returned Sunday as losers of nine of their past 10 games and with no reason for optimism.
    "You want to win basketball games, and we didn't win the basketball games," coach Jim O'Brien said. "I thought we played good stretches in every game, but we came up short on all of them."
    The Pacers (6-12) resume practice today at Conseco Fieldhouse in preparation for Wednesday's game against the Portland Trail Blazers.
    Here's a look at several concerns that stood out during the trip:
    Is this the right group of players?
    The season is only 18 games old, but already there is an impression that these players can't get the job done.
    Chemistry is key to any team's success. The Pacers need somebody to take the lead because the coaching staff can only do so much before the players tune them out.
    If not, team president Larry Bird may want to take a hard look at shaking up the roster. He may already be thinking that way. General manager David Morway stayed with the team the entire trip instead of returning to Indianapolis after the first two games as planned.
    Still no rotation
    O'Brien has used many starting combinations. Dahntay Jones replaced Brandon Rush at shooting guard and O'Brien has used both Roy Hibbert and Jeff Foster at center.
    O'Brien may also want to take a look at point guard. T.J. Ford didn't do anything to earn the confidence of teammates during the trip.
    Ford had a total of 10 assists and 11 turnovers in four games. O'Brien went with Earl Watson in Ford's place for most of the second half against Sacramento and the Los Angeles Clippers last week.
    The Pacers must have stability at point guard if they expect to win.
    O'Brien hopes to eventually settle on a nine-man rotation.
    No offensive rhythm
    The Pacers have been shooting jumpers quickly in their up-tempo offense.
    That mind-set has led to players standing on the perimeter, forcing shots and trying to do things out of their element with the ball.
    That's why the Pacers are averaging only 97 points a game and making 30 percent of their 3-point attempts this season.
    "I'm still not confident we're playing the style that was successful for us to get five wins in a row. That wasn't by luck," Jones said. "We were playing a good style of basketball. It was interesting, it was successful and now it's totally different. We were pushing the ball, getting easy buckets. It seems like we have to work so hard to score now."O'Brien situation
    The coach usually gets the blame when things go wrong. Bird said last week O'Brien has dealt with many injuries.
    It's unknown when O'Brien will have a healthy roster. Forward Danny Granger left the Staples Center with a walking boot on his right foot Saturday after aggravating his bruised right heel in the third quarter against the Clippers

    ************************************************** *******

    I wonder what style is he referring to? Did we play a differant style then or was it just personel?

    My thought is that we did play a differant style then and our offense was started by our defense. When we were on offense we were more methodical to my memory but then again that is so many losses ago the win streak seems like something from the 90's.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

    "It's unknown when O'Brien will have a healthy roster."
    I'm at the end with this excuse. Anybody who wants to continue to use that excuse, and it seems to be rearing its ugliness all the time lately, needs to look at the Houston Rockets situation closely. Then get back to me about O'Brien and a healthy roster.
    This team has the youth, was dealing well with injuries, and yet as soon as the veterans returned they were handed their jobs. Tell me the youth doesn't see that?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

      I'm suprised that those comments didn't get their own "Pacers players give up on coach" article from Wells.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

        Dahntay is right.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

          Originally posted by special ed View Post
          "It's unknown when O'Brien will have a healthy roster."
          I'm at the end with this excuse. Anybody who wants to continue to use that excuse, and it seems to be rearing its ugliness all the time lately, needs to look at the Houston Rockets situation closely. Then get back to me about O'Brien and a healthy roster.
          This team has the youth, was dealing well with injuries, and yet as soon as the veterans returned they were handed their jobs. Tell me the youth doesn't see that?
          Absolutely! We've had that justification for poor play around here for-seemingly-time immemorial. At least through Carlisle and O'Brien's tenure.

          Not that we'd be reeling off a bunch of 5 game win streaks with the line up from the win streak, but we've got to find a way to recapture the chemistry and enthusiasm that group had. That is the single biggest issue for me. They just play like they're burnt out and we're still in the first quarter of the season. Unacceptable.

          Maybe it's dawning on the returnees that the team is not good enough to even match last year's performance. Bottom line-we lost three guys who we're legit offensive contributors, team players, and one who was the leader and second best player. At best we got back a back-up PG, a less offensively inclined, less experienced big, and a defensive role player.

          As far as coaching, I do think this team would be better with more of a teacher, young talent developer who employed a more structured, traditional offense and defense. Either that or the players just aren't buying into it. Result is the same in either case.

          Losing is one thing. Looking consistently apathetic and disorganized is another. They need to get it together or what image they may have improved last season in a "moving in the right direction" sense will have evaporated by the new year.
          I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

          -Emiliano Zapata

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

            I don't see a different style, I don't see more or less running. I guezss I think D. Jones is just wrong.

            Having said that, I think the defense was better during the 5 game streak (or the opponents offenses were bad) and that allowed the pacers to get out and run quite a bit more.

            And yeah, no team is ever 100% healthy, so that is an excuse that IMO isn't valid. Whoever plays should be able to play hard, together and have a clue as to what they are supposed to be doing
            Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-07-2009, 09:12 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

              Somebody tell Dahntay that not to talk about things he wouldn't know about.

              This question should be answered by statisticians and internet chat contributors.
              "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                I think maybe Dahntay is trying to say that he was able to more easily score in bunches during that stretch because nobody really considered him a threat to score yet, and that since then our opponents have made adjustments to stop him on offense, and that because of his lack of effectiveness our offense has stagnated further, especially combined with poor team shooting from beyond the arc.

                If that is what he is trying to say, OK.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  I don't see a different style, I don't see more or less running. I guezss I think D. Jones is just wrong.

                  Having said that, I think the defense was better during the 5 game streak (or the opponents offenses were bad) and that allowed the pacers to get out and run quite a bit more.

                  And yeah, no team is ever 100% healthy, so that is an excuse that IMO isn't valid. Whoever plays should be able to play hard, together and have a clue as to what they are supposed to be doing
                  Don't those two comments contradict each other?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                    I see the same players on the floor who moved during the streak not moving now - in fact, I often see them moving until they miss a few shots and then they all stop.

                    I think what is happening is that, in spite of the supposed environment where taking a good shot is encouraged even if you miss it, no one on the team wants to miss a shot. Therefore they find their good spot and stay there, since if they move they might get the hot potato when time runs out.

                    I simply don't agree with anyone who says JOB is somehow coaching the "stand around and wait for a contested shot" basketball we are playing. No matter how much you hate his style, that never has been his style.

                    Please note that is NOT to say he's any good at all at actually coaching half-court sets that free people up as opposed to transition ball. I just want to see people focus on what he can't do instead of somehow making it sound like this is all on purpose because he wants to see this garbage.
                    Last edited by BillS; 12-07-2009, 10:33 AM. Reason: Contradicted myself, fixed.
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                      Originally posted by Peck View Post
                      I wonder what style is he referring to? Did we play a differant style then or was it just personel?
                      Or have they not accepted that personnel dictates the style of play. You don't see many Yugos (the car, not the country) in a car race.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                        I found it interesting that Morway chose to stay on the road with the team longer than planned. Maybe he is concerned enough to be actually considering what changes need to be made to begin to correct the situation, and wanted to see it up close alongside Bird.

                        If so, it's a good sign!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                          Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                          Don't those two comments contradict each other?
                          Yeah it does especially when I failed to explain the difference. I meant to say that the Pacers didn't run anymore or any less during that stretch of games by design, but when your defense is better you are going to get more fastbreaks whether you change your approach or not.

                          Hope that makes sense. My point is that it wasn't like the coaching staff changed the system for 5 games and then changed it after those 5 games

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                            Originally posted by Brad8888 View Post
                            I found it interesting that Morway chose to stay on the road with the team longer than planned. Maybe he is concerned enough to be actually considering what changes need to be made to begin to correct the situation, and wanted to see it up close alongside Bird.

                            If so, it's a good sign!
                            Gotta love the interactive front office doings.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: D. Jones has decided to join Mckeyfan in beating the horse...

                              What has changed is not the style but what players are playing and when.
                              Start Hibbert and then bring in Solomon. Start Tyler at PF and put Dunleavy at SF and
                              DAhntay at SG and Watson at point. Bring Troy and Brandon and Ford off the bench.
                              Since Danny is hurt he can't start at PF.
                              {o,o}
                              |)__)
                              -"-"-

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