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Thread: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

  1. #1

    Default JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...n_close_games/

    It's also from the Indianapolis Star, but I just saw it this morning. While I understand not wanting to lose, we're talking about your second best player coming off a surgery where there was no certainty he'd even be able to play again. Given the injury history of this franchise, particularly concerning knees, I think it's foolish to say that you're going to ignore doctor's advice in order to try to win a game that isn't going to matter much the way this team is playing. I feel like it shows a lack of respect for your players, and sends a message that you feel like winning the game is more important than their health/safety.

    With comments like these, it's not surprising that JOB might be losing this team.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Jim O'Brien does not care about the long term interests of this franchise, because there is no way in hell Jim O'Brien will be the coach of this team when it is ever legitimately competitive again.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    IF JOB would do this he should be fired on the spot. Nothing more, nothing less.
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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Get. Jim. Out. Of. Here.

    Now.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Whoa boy.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Is he that foolish? Those are a doctor's advise for a reason. Might as well not have a team doctor if you're not going to abide by what they say.

  8. #7

    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    I think this is his way of saying he hates losing.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Just blah. I'm about done with this team.
    "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

    Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    Is he that foolish? Those are a doctor's advise for a reason. Might as well not have a team doctor if you're not going to abide by what they say.
    This just furthers my suspicion that we keep rushing players back from injury before they're fully healed. And it always backfires.

    Though, to be fair, I've had that suspicion since before JOB was the coach here.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    It wasn't very long ago that O'B said something to the effect that Danny should play through his knee and heel issues for the good of the team. This was about two weeks ago IIRC. Plainly, Danny has never completely healed from his heel bruise (or whatever it actually might be, possibly the beginnings of plantar fasciitis due to the chronic nature of it and how it seems to have limited his ability to cut, but I am not a doctor / trainer), and now it is probably worse than before, requiring more time to heal than it would have previously.

    If doctors don't clear the minutes for Dunleavy and he plays significantly beyond his set limit, my guess is that Dunleavy might have an actionable grievance that he could go to the union with in the event that re-injury occurs during the extended minutes, but I am not certain of that. A little help, Count?

    If this is so, I doubt that even O'B would be foolhardy enough to risk it due to the possible negative implications of it, despite what he has said.

    Even without this being so, it is a risky move at best for O'B, and is indicative of either how desperate O'B is about saving his job, or how desperate the franchise is to win at any cost for myriad reasons, or possibly both.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    It wasn't very long ago that O'B said something to the effect that Danny should play through his knee and heel issues for the good of the team. This was about two weeks ago IIRC.
    Wait, what? Did he really say this?

    Can we get a link?

    I'm holding off my rage. Barely.
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  14. #12

    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Yep, this is it. I want him gone.

    I just went on and defended him in benching Dunleavy in that Sacramento game. Then now he says this? Yeaaaaaa, I'm done.

    Get the **** out. NOW.

    -- Steve --

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    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    I've always thought Jim O'Brien was a super advanced furby...and now I am fairly certain. HE is just full of comments that do not make any sense.

    Jim O'Brien is a furby.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    Jim O'Brien is a furby.
    Not seeing it.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Not seeing it.

    Imagine the sides of the head have gray hair.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Imagine the sides of the head have gray hair.
    He's a love child of a furby and Paulie Walnuts.

    Only with less common sense it seems.
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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Wait, what? Did he really say this?

    Can we get a link?

    I'm holding off my rage. Barely.
    I was wrong. Here is what I was referring to:

    From the Indy Star, Mike Wells, November 27

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2009...o-lineup-nears

    November 27, 2009


    Dunleavy's return to lineup nears

    Uncertainty surrounding Granger increases Pacers' urgency

    By Mike Wells
    mike.wells@indystar.com

    Mike Dunleavy compared his smooth-looking jump shot to riding a bike: You never lose it once you have it down.

    The toughest part for Dunleavy, who has played in 18 games in the past 17 months, is getting into shape and working on his timing.

    The Indiana Pacers swingman is slowly getting those aspects of his game back, and with that said, Dunleavy could soon be making his long-awaited season debut.

    "I'm really close," Dunleavy said. "At this point I would say it's day-to-day."

    The Pacers host the Dallas Mavericks tonight at Conseco Fieldhouse. Dunleavy is not expected to play.

    Some members of the Pacers organization have become quite eager for Dunleavy to return, especially with the uncertainty regarding Danny Granger's sprained left medial collateral ligament.

    "I anticipate he should not be out much longer and, I would say based on what Danny's situation is, I would suspect he needs to get back to the court," coach Jim O'Brien said.


    Dunleavy's minutes will be monitored when he returns.

    The Pacers haven't had a lot of practice time, which would have benefited Dunleavy's efforts to get into game shape.

    Dunleavy has not been in a game since Feb. 8, when he played three scoreless minutes against the Washington Wizards.

    He had surgery to remove a bone spur from his right patellar tendon, then had the tendon repaired in March.

    Dunleavy was prepared to open training camp when an MRI revealed a grade-2 strain a day before the start of practice.

    "Over the course of the process, I think I've developed so much patience," Dunleavy said. "You realize everything you put in is not worth messing up over skipping a step in the process and getting out there too early. We've done a great job with this whole thing. I feel better than I thought I would ever feel. There's no point in messing that up right now."

    The Pacers could use a healthy Dunleavy.

    His ability to move without the ball will help a team that is often stagnant on the perimeter, relying mostly on jump shots. He's also a solid team defender.

    "Mike's going to add another shooter for us," swingman Dahntay Jones said. "He's very, very smart. He moves well without the ball and he's a great basketball mind.

    "He's going to be a great addition to our team and what we're trying to accomplish."

    The Pacers have been streaky. They've had losing streaks of three and four games, respectively, and a winning streak of five games.

    "I like our guys, but I think we've gone through some periods where we've gotten down on ourselves too much and we've probably thought we were better than we were too much," Dunleavy said. "That's why you can see we've gotten on some streaks both ways.

    "If we can somehow develop the discipline to come out and execute on both ends of the court each night, I think we can be a really good basketball team, but that remains to be seen if we can do that."

    Everybody in the organization is keeping their fingers crossed that Dunleavy will remain healthy and not have any more setbacks with his knee.

    "I believe in what I've done. I feel like it's sturdy," Dunleavy said. "This isn't the type of injury where I blew my knee out."

    Additional Facts
    Mavericks (11-4) at Pacers (6-7)
    Tipoff: 8 p.m. today, Conseco Fieldhouse.

    TV: Fox Sports Indiana.

    Radio: WFNI-1070 AM.

    Pregame MVP: Nowitzki will be a tough cover for the Pacers, especially if Danny Granger misses his second straight game. Murphy and Jeff Foster will likely be responsible for trying to slow the league's seventh-leading scorer.

    Prediction: Mavericks by seven. Dallas has won seven of the past eight meetings against the Pacers. The Mavericks won both games last season by a total of five points.

    -- Mike Wells
    Sorry about that.

    I guess I had misread the bolded part previously, or had not remembered it correctly. It appears that he was actually referring to Dunleavy returning with his "I would suspect he needs to get back to the court" due to Danny's health issues.

    It does, however, seem to me to underscore the desire to push important players to returning early from injury or simply playing through them, which had upset me at the time I read it initially because of the time Danny missed last year from playing through less severe injuries that led to worsening health problems for him as time went on.

  21. #18
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Jim could say the sky is blue and many would argue that it isn't blue. "Jim stay away from Mike you are going to kill him". Wow, the hate is strong
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-07-2009 at 11:11 AM.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    I don't honestly believe JOB would play a player to the detriment of their career for the sake of winning a couple more games. What I'd say is more likely is that, with the strict adherence to the minute restrictions, he has been erring on the side of extreme caution. If the medical staff was adamantly against increasing Dunleavy's minutes due to the likelihood of further injury, I don't think he would cross that line. It's almost like the blurring of the line between what some feel is a bad coach and the Antichrist. Although, those are some pretty pronounced sideburns. So, you know, the mark of the beast thing and all....

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Jim could say the sky is blue and many would argue that it isn't blue. Jim stay away from Mike you are going to kill him. Wow, the hate is strong
    If Jim says the sky is blue, even on the cloudiest and rainiest day, he would technically be correct if we were to fly in a commercial jet above the top of the cloud deck during daylight hours. However, to many, from ground level, the sky on that particular day would not be perceived to be blue except to the most optimistic of all viewers who realize that the sky is still blue above the clouds though they cannot see it at the moment.

    Negative emotions are nearly always stronger than positive, as an innate survival mechanism. For the same reason that dissatisfaction with a good purchased or poor service received will be spread by word of mouth both far more quickly and much further than satisfaction with the same, people tend to express their negative feelings about all things currently Pacers, O'B included, more often and more vehemently than any positive feelings would likely be expressed even if things were going smoothly at this point.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I don't honestly believe JOB would play a player to the detriment of their career for the sake of winning a couple more games. What I'd say is more likely is that, with the strict adherence to the minute restrictions, he has been erring on the side of extreme caution. If the medical staff was adamantly against increasing Dunleavy's minutes due to the likelihood of further injury, I don't think he would cross that line. It's almost like the blurring of the line between what some feel is a bad coach and the Antichrist. Although, those are some pretty pronounced sideburns. So, you know, the mark of the beast thing and all....
    That's what I am thinking. I would understand if we were on the brink of winning more and more games, but with each passing day I'm sure that Dun's window gets even larger.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    If Jim says the sky is blue, even on the cloudiest and rainiest day, he would technically be correct if we were to fly in a commercial jet above the top of the cloud deck during daylight hours. However, to many, from ground level, the sky on that particular day would not be perceived to be blue except to the most optimistic of all viewers who realize that the sky is still blue above the clouds though they cannot see it at the moment.

    Negative emotions are nearly always stronger than positive, as an innate survival mechanism. For the same reason that dissatisfaction with a good purchased or poor service received will be spread by word of mouth both far more quickly and much further than satisfaction with the same, people tend to express their negative feelings about all things currently Pacers, O'B included, more often and more vehemently than any positive feelings would likely be expressed even if things were going smoothly at this point.
    I'm not looking for positive feelings, but the hate is just way to much for me and IMO way over-the-top. The team is 6-12 and except for a 5 game bubble they are 1-12, so the coach deserves some criticism no doubt, but he isn't a serial killer, he isn't an idiot, maybe it comes down to just some respect and common decency for a coach - that seems to be lacking in this forum lately and especially in this thread. Seems many in this thread are implying that Jim might risk further injuring Mike by playing him more as some failed and evil attempt to win a few more games.

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'm not looking for positive feelings, but the hate is just way to much for me and IMO way over-the-top. The team is 6-12 and except for a 5 game bubble they are 1-12, so the coach deserves some criticism no doubt, but he isn't a serial killer, he isn't an idiot, maybe it comes down to just some respect and common decency for a coach - that seems to be lacking in this forum lately and especially in this thread. Seems many in this thread are implying that Jim might risk further injuring Mike by playing him more as some failed and evil attempt to win a few more games.
    I think that many of us clearly see that when Dunleavy is on the floor that he really improves our offense. So I don't fault JO'B for choosing to have Dunleavy on the floor to finish close games. But there is a difference between having Dunleavy finish games and having him play more minutes then he should be playing.

    To me, if JO'B was upset that Dunleavy played his limited # of minutes ( in the Kings game ) and couldn't use him at the end of the close game....then that's a simple matter of "time management" when it comes to when to play him and when not to play him...as opposed to a problem with the # of minutes he should or should not be playing.

    The best solution would be to recognize that Dunleavy is more valuable to close out games....but ( at the same time ) for JO'B to also recognize that the 1st options off the bench does not start and end with Dunleavy, Foster or Murphy.

    This is even more true when it comes to many of our concerns that JO'B would rather do "what is comfortable" ( as in play Dunleavy, Murphy, Foster more then they should ) as opposed to using other Players in our rotation to "fill in the gaps" while Granger is gone. That is what many of us are complaining about.....the first response to losing the King's game and ( in the process ) losing Granger is to increase the minutes of Dunleavy ( if needed ).

    Playing Dunleavy more minutes then is presribed is not the only option that we have. The way I look at it, we have several options with Granger's absense ( while not increasing Dunleavy's minutes ):

    1 ) Use Luther to play some SG minutes
    2 ) Use Solo to play some PF/C minutes

    My 1st thought was to give Hansbrough more of the backup PF minutes that Granger has been playing....but given the restrictions that we have on the # of minutes that Hansbrough himself has, that does not appear to be an option. The most logical option to go with is to expand our rotation to include Luther and Solo while keeping Dunleavy, Murphy, Hansbrough and Foster to the regular minutes they get.

    Of course, the cavaet is that JO'B did say that Dunleavy will play more minutes IF the game is close and therefore will play "as needed". Technically, this could suggest that if we are not in a close game that Dunleavy will still play his standard 20+ minutes and that he actually uses whatever depth that we have. But given what we have seen of JO'B....I could hope that he uses players like Luther or Solo to play more minutes in the Backcourt and Frontcourt....but honestly...it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't and resorted to leaning more on Dunleavy, Murphy and Foster to pick up the slack in Granger's absense.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-07-2009 at 02:08 PM.
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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    To me, if JO'B was upset that Dunleavy played his limited # of minutes ( in the Kings game ) and couldn't use him at the end of the close game....then that's a simple matter of "time management" when it comes to when to play him and when not to play him...as opposed to a problem with the # of minutes he should or should not be playing.
    If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

    Seriously, as we've seen in all but the most recent game, you can't just save your best guys for the end of the game if you aren't in the game at that point.
    BillS

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    Default Re: JOB to ignore Dunleavy's medical time restriction if necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    If it was that easy, everyone would do it.

    Seriously, as we've seen in all but the most recent game, you can't just save your best guys for the end of the game if you aren't in the game at that point.
    And not every player/team is in the situation that the Pacers/Dunleavy are in.

    You can't judge Dunleavy/Hans' situation like you would judge Roy's or any other player on the team. Two totally different criteria. Cable is only addressing Dunleavy, not "best guys."

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