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Thread: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

  1. #26
    Formerly QuickRelease NapTonius Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Slick has mentioned this several times in many broadcasts, that we're not a very good shooting ballclub. That said, I think we'd see higher percentages with more disciplined shot selection.

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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Hicks, I've heard this mentioned a couple of times in various posts. How was this validated? His practice repertoire I mean. Have former players said this as well? Just curious, and not at all trying to be argumentative.
    I recall it being something O'Brien has talked about either in the press or on his show. He believes in running his players hard and prides himself on having the best-conditioned team in the league (or something to that effect). I've also seen him reference having players fully dress/tape up at shootarounds to run additional practices, with my understanding being that those practices were full speed, not half speed. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was certainly the impression I got.

    Sorry, I couldn't give a direct quote.

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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    I also want to add that I'm not trying to pin ALL of our shooting woes on this. I just think it's a layer of the problem. Perhaps a thick layer.

    The way they are playing offense isn't helping at all.

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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I also want to add that I'm not trying to pin ALL of our shooting woes on this. I just think it's a layer of the problem. Perhaps a thick layer.

    The way they are playing offense isn't helping at all.
    And I think you might just be right. I have read/heard the same thing and that would certainly explain why they run out of gas in Q4.

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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I recall it being something O'Brien has talked about either in the press or on his show. He believes in running his players hard and prides himself on having the best-conditioned team in the league (or something to that effect). I've also seen him reference having players fully dress/tape up at shootarounds to run additional practices, with my understanding being that those practices were full speed, not half speed. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was certainly the impression I got.

    Sorry, I couldn't give a direct quote.
    I've read so many Obbie quotes and listed to so many of his postgame comments and radio shows that I can't tell you exactly when I heard this either but I do know that I've heard him reference his full speed practices several times and I've heard commentators do so as well. Also, sometimes our players tweet about them. For instance, I learned about the practice the day after the 14 hour flight from Brandon Rush's twitter account.
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    I think the problem is not that players (or JOB) don't want to get the ball to Hibbert it is that they can't.

    Player's portion of the fault is that they stop moving around to make additional passing lanes.

    JOB's portion of the fault is that everyone starts at the perimeter and by the time they can work into the lane it's full of defenders.

    There need to be some set plays that start as soon as transition fails in order to force someone to cheat out of a passing lane so the ball can go in to Roy.

    That, and Roy needs to force the ball up and into the basket rather than just laying it up there once he gets it.
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    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Translation: Stop running the team's legs so much when it's not game time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I also want to add that I'm not trying to pin ALL of our shooting woes on this. I just think it's a layer of the problem. Perhaps a thick layer.

    The way they are playing offense isn't helping at all.
    Last year, the Pacers were 8th in the league last year in 3PT% (37.8%) and 13th in eFG% (50.1%).

    The year before that, JO'B's first season, they were also 8th in 3PT% (37.4%) and 14th in eFG% (49.8%).

    So unless Jimmy has changed his practice/shootaround philosophy considerably this season, it would seem that his philosophy doesn't necessarily preclude a team from shooting well, or at least average for the league.
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  11. #33
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    That's a good point.

    However, the change this year would be the increased emphasis on defense. Perhaps trying to go hard on both sides of the floor is catching up to them? I mean theoretically it shouldn't matter, but isn't it often the case that teams tend to rest more on one side of the floor than the other (either by being run and gun with less D, or a moderate-to-slow tempo on O while busting *** more consistently on defense)?

    The only other option would be to use a deep bench. O'Brien I think would like to use that, but when he wants to use a 9-man rotation with two players on minute count, that won't get it done.

    So until those two can play full minutes, wouldn't it be wise to find another way to save their legs? That is, of course, assuming legs are the problem, which they may not be.

  12. #34
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Hicks, you may have seen this on twitter, but:

    @Wells222 Do you watch Pacer practices? Are they overly onerous? Do you think the shooting problems are being caused by fatigue?
    was responded to with this:

    @toothpicksray We only watch the end of practice, which is some scrimmaging but mainly free throws/jumpers
    Inconclusive.

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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    I still think OB's concentrating on defense is hurting the offense.

    Remember Bird in the off season wanted Harter more involved, this is OB's response.

    That's why I think the players should do more shooting on their own. However if they are tired from his practices they won't do that.

    And I thought practices could only be for 3 hours. Some people are throwing around the number 4. Anyone know for sure?

  14. #36
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    I still think OB's concentrating on defense is hurting the offense.

    Remember Bird in the off season wanted Harter more involved, this is OB's response.

    That's why I think the players should do more shooting on their own. However if they are tired from his practices they won't do that.

    And I thought practices could only be for 3 hours. Some people are throwing around the number 4. Anyone know for sure?

    There's no more concentrating on defense going on... there's just fewer offensively inclined players on the team because he made an excuse to management for the team's lack of defensive prowess. O'Brien doesn't care about defense the way most other coaches do. He wants a quick strike offense. He plays lip service to defense. Sure, he has a defensive system... one that runs counter to the offense he employs which is both wrong from a analytical sense and wrong from the sense it many times gives the other team fast breaks (basically putting his defensive system at even more of a disadvantage). But he doesn't care IMHO because the name of the game is scoring fast and often in his mind. He's now just a victim of his own excuses.
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    count,

    Yeah, I did see that. Guess we're left to sound bites, quotes, and speculation.

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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    I still think OB's concentrating on defense is hurting the offense.

    Remember Bird in the off season wanted Harter more involved, this is OB's response.

    That's why I think the players should do more shooting on their own. However if they are tired from his practices they won't do that.

    And I thought practices could only be for 3 hours. Some people are throwing around the number 4. Anyone know for sure?
    I don't know how long the practices have been during the season this year. I was the person that threw around the number 4. Specifically, I said that I know there was at least one 4 hour practice during the pre-season schedule and a practice the day after the 14 hour flight to China. I read those bits of information several places but the only place I can find it right now is on Brandon Rush's twitter feed, see the October 12th and September 28th entries: http://twitter.com/kcsfinest09
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    There's no more concentrating on defense going on... there's just fewer offensively inclined players on the team because he made an excuse to management for the team's lack of defensive prowess. O'Brien doesn't care about defense the way most other coaches do. He wants a quick strike offense. He plays lip service to defense. Sure, he has a defensive system... one that runs counter to the offense he employs which is both wrong from a analytical sense and wrong from the sense it many times gives the other team fast breaks (basically putting his defensive system at even more of a disadvantage). But he doesn't care IMHO because the name of the game is scoring fast and often in his mind. He's now just a victim of his own excuses.
    I forget where the information came from, but I recall it being made clear that O'Brien HAS put a lot of emphasis on defense in practices. To say he just plays it lip-service is simply not true. I wish I could recall where I specifically got that from. Hopefully someone else can remember, but I'm quite sure about this.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Cool Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I forget where the information came from, but I recall it being made clear that O'Brien HAS put a lot of emphasis on defense in practices. To say he just plays it lip-service is simply not true. I wish I could recall where I specifically got that from. Hopefully someone else can remember, but I'm quite sure about this.
    It may have been in kester's breakdown thread, or it may have been Buck relaying some information. I recall a post last year that quoted somebody saying that the Pacers spent about 70% of their practice time on Defense and 30% on Offense. Like I said, it could have been Buck, and it's possible he was talking about what O'Brien said in one of his shows, but my vague recollection was that it was somebody else.

    Very possibly could be false memory.

  20. #41
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I forget where the information came from, but I recall it being made clear that O'Brien HAS put a lot of emphasis on defense in practices. To say he just plays it lip-service is simply not true. I wish I could recall where I specifically got that from. Hopefully someone else can remember, but I'm quite sure about this.
    Fool me once... shame on you. Fool me twice.... shame on me.

    O'Brien might be spending more of his talk in practice working on his defense but IMO it's just more lip service. The results speak for themselves. It's mixed messages at best for the players.

    O'Brien cares about a quick strike offense. I repeat: O'Brien cares about a quick strike offense.

    You don't rush to get Troy Murphy minutes if you care about defense. O'Brien is too giddy about Troy trailing the play and getting a 3 from the top of the key than to worry about his defense getting stops.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    What the hell ever happened to Travis Diener?

  22. #43
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    What the hell ever happened to Travis Diener?
    Toe, I think...had to have surgery again a few weeks ago.

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    Default Re: The Pacers Problem? They can't shoot!

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    What the hell ever happened to Travis Diener?
    He had another surgery recently:

    http://www.nba360.tv/News/Team/pacer...4-6-weeks.html
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