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Thread: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Keith Smart?
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    -Emiliano Zapata

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Take Tylenol for any headaches, Midol for any cramps.

    I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. ~Frank Sinatra

  3. #78

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    O'Brien defaults to players who have BB I.Q./NBA experience, but little in the way of talent. The problem is intensified in that they have already reached their peak and in some cases are in decline.

    The young guys will never improve on their I.Q. without experience, and at this point we don't know what their upside is. O'Brien should have figured out that 3 years of missed playoffs are what Troy, Dunleavy and Foster's ceiling is...and should just give the young guys plenty of PT to see what they've got.

    Worse case scenario the young guys are worse than our current starters (except DG), and we end up starting over but with a better draft pick next season.

    In our current state, O'Brien will lead the team to another 9th or 10th seed, mediocre mid-round/late lotto pick, and the team will be mired in many more years of misery.

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Keith Smart?
    In line to succeed Nellie. Well at least that's what Nellie is pushing for. Nobody knows what will actually happen.

  5. #80

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by kellogg View Post
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    O'Brien defaults to players who have BB I.Q./NBA experience, but little in the way of talent. The problem is intensified in that they have already reached their peak and in some cases are in decline.

    The young guys will never improve on their I.Q. without experience, and at this point we don't know what their upside is. O'Brien should have figured out that 3 years of missed playoffs are what Troy, Dunleavy and Foster's ceiling is...and should just give the young guys plenty of PT to see what they've got.

    Worse case scenario the young guys are worse than our current starters (except DG), and we end up starting over but with a better draft pick next season.

    In our current state, O'Brien will lead the team to another 9th or 10th seed, mediocre mid-round/late lotto pick, and the team will be mired in many more years of misery.
    Exactly.

    With JOB's choice rotation, the veterans..the Pacer's have won once.

    Let the young guys play. They can not do much worse. And personally, I think they'd do better.

    Chemistry is clearly an issue. But in summer league, we saw Hibbert and Price play exceptionally well together. And that one game where Hansborough and Price got significant minutes together *Washington* the two of them went on a 10-0 run by themselves.

    But I just find myself wondering...the vets aren't getting it done. If they play at their best, the Pacers become a mediocre team. If they do not. The pacers stink and there is no improvement from the younger guys.

    So either we are mediocre, get no minutes for the younger guys, and end up with a middle of the road draft pick.

    Or

    We stink, get no minutes for the younger guys, maybe end up with a higher draft pick..but we won't play him, because he's young.

    Or

    We play the younger guys, see what they've got. They improve, and either we figure out whether we've got a good core, or we get a high enough draft pick so that we can draft a player with the possibility of being great.

    I think there is clearly a "best option" in this circumstance.

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  7. #81
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    In line to succeed Nellie. Well at least that's what Nellie is pushing for. Nobody knows what will actually happen.
    Go get him now! Try to woo him with the Back Home Again in IN factor. Bloomington, Ft. Wayne, now Indy. Wishful thinking here.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    What? You guys aren't salivating over another 12th pick? You don't want another role player to add to what may be the best group of role players without impact players in the NBA?
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Let the young guys play. They can not do much worse. And personally, I think they'd do better.
    I hear people say that and sure it sound good, but who exactly do you mean. Josh McRoberts? No way he just isn't NBA caliber. Roy? he's getting as many minutes as his foul trouble and stamina problems allow. Rush was allowed to start 15 straight games and even since then has gotten significant minutes in all but 1 game. Tyler is playing as many minutes as his health will allow. Solo, OK maybe, but he is never going to turn into more than an adequate backup.

    Who else is young? who else do you want to play exactly

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I hear people say that and sure it sound good, but who exactly do you mean. Josh McRoberts? No way he just isn't NBA caliber.
    I'm glad I didn't have to say it. I've been thinking this to myself for a while now, I just didn't want to be the one with tomatoes on my face.

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    Default Re: Post Games vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I'm glad I didn't have to say it. I've been thinking this to myself for a while now, I just didn't want to be the one with tomatoes on my face.
    I feel just about the same way with the Solo talk. It's nice to have him on the bench as a cheap insurance policy but that's about it. I recognize that he stepped up and provided some offense in a few games but to expect him to fill a major role is unrealistic.

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    Default Re: Post Games vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I feel just about the same way with the Solo talk. It's nice to have him on the bench as a cheap insurance policy but that's about it. I recognize that he stepped up and provided some offense in a few games but to expect him to fill a major role is unrealistic.
    I'm not that low on Solo as I am with McBob.

    People have failed to realize that we resigned him for use as an extra body if we have no other options. Putting McRoberts in this early is basically throwing in the towel. Things look bad but they aren't bad just yet. It's still early December.

  14. #87

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    And O'Brien came from what category?

    LOL, the reason was I noticed this yesterday, and had a response of "Isn't that what O'Brien was?", but decided not to post it. I'm glad someone else caught it, and pointed it out.

  15. #88

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by kellogg View Post
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    In our current state, O'Brien will lead the team to another 9th or 10th seed,

    I believe that's an over estimation and wishful thinking in the current state.

  16. #89

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Josh McRoberts? No way he just isn't NBA caliber.

    I'm not a big fan of McBob, but what makes you think/feel McBob isn't NBA caliber? I not saying he is, I just want to see how your view/option is different than Seth's.

  17. #90
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I'm not a big fan of McBob, but what makes you think/feel McBob isn't NBA caliber? I not saying he is, I just want to see how your view/option is different than Seth's.
    I'm not a stat guy, a lot of what I judge players on is very subjective and the first thing I look for is a simply pass/fail type of thing: I ask myself after watching a player, "does he look like an NBA player?" I think that is a pretty low bar for most players. Eddie Gill didn't pass the test in my eyes, John Edwards didn't either and josh McRoberts doesn't pass in my opinion. I tend to error on the side of giving the player the benefit of the doubt, so almost every player passes the test. Sorry, I don't have a more stats based approach.

    What basketball skill does Josh have? Sure he plays hard, but you need another skill. Before you scream, what about Foster, what about Foster. Fair question, Jeff has alot more going for him than he plays hard, he has a great ability to track down the ball "has a nose for the ball" he also has very quick feet for a guy his size, and he has pretty good passing skills. He also has a decent feel for the game. Josh IMO plays hard is a decent athlete, but has nothing else
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-07-2009 at 12:03 PM.

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    On a side note, Pacers are tied for the 5th pick in the next draft.

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    On a side note, Pacers are tied for the 5th pick in the next draft.
    And rising!

    I better get my seats reserved for the Draft Party right away!

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Really, if the Pacers would have played against the Clips or Wariors like they did against the Kings or Jazz, the Pacers would have beaten the Warriors and Clips, and would have had a 2-2 road trip.
    I'm not sure you saw the Jazz game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I don't understand the desire for Bird to step in as coach unless it's to punish him. Bird's strength as a coach was to surround himself with excellent assistant coaches and be a steadying force himself with a veteran team around them all.

    Unless Bird has the ability to be something different then this isn't a situation at all where he'd be expected to excel. That said, he couldn't do any worse than O'Brien at this point...
    My thoughts are that if Larry ultimately decides that O'Brien needs to be canned, Herb will say "Sure. You're the basketball guy. If you think he needs to go, then go ahead and fire him. But I'm not paying another guy to coach this team. You do it."

    That's what has happened in NO and NJ, and it's hard to see an owner who's lost as much money on this team and in this economy shelling out good money for someone to rescue a team with a record as bad as it will have to have gotten for Bird to want to sack O'Brien. Bird extended Jimmy. So it's on him. Why would Herb want to chase bad money with good?
    Last edited by JayRedd; 12-07-2009 at 12:27 PM.
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  22. #94

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I hear people say that and sure it sound good, but who exactly do you mean. Josh McRoberts? No way he just isn't NBA caliber. Roy? he's getting as many minutes as his foul trouble and stamina problems allow. Rush was allowed to start 15 straight games and even since then has gotten significant minutes in all but 1 game. Tyler is playing as many minutes as his health will allow. Solo, OK maybe, but he is never going to turn into more than an adequate backup.

    Who else is young? who else do you want to play exactly
    I would play Watson, Granger and Jones with this bunch. But I'd prefer minutes primarily go to Roy, Rush, Price, Solo, and Hansborough. McRoberts can get a fair shake, but personally, I'm not impressed with him.

    A few of the young guys have gotten sometime, but none of them have gotton a fair shake. Hibbert was playing well. But having to play next to Murphy doesn't help Roy offensively or defensively. And I don't think it's a coincidence his production dropped of since Murphy came back. Then there's a fact that JOB keeps playing with his head.

    Speaking of "playing with his head" what about Rush. For weeks JOB kept basically saying "Rush is being outplayed, but I'm gonna continue startign him because he won't be able to handle sitting down." Only to then basically take him out of the rotation.

    Point is, Ford, Dahntay, Granger, Murphy, and Foster aren't winning anything for the team, and they aren't doing anything for the team's future because Ford, Murphy, Foster..and maybe even Dahntay, won't be here three years from now and they CERTAINLY don't need to be developed because they are at or past their peak. *with the exception of Granger, hopefully*

    So what does the team have to lose? They can stink not developing the youth at all, or stink developing the youth...but there's always the chance that the youth outplays the veterans too..but what htey are doing now, isn't working.

    Obviously, this isn't going to happen...unless there is a Murphy/Ford trade..which wouldn't shock me if there was.

  23. #95

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    On a side note, Pacers are tied for the 5th pick in the next draft.
    Here's the bad part. We're 1 game out of the playoffs. If the team gets their wish and we make the playoffs with a record as bad as it looks like we could ... that 8th spot in the playoffs could be the difference between a top 5 pick or a middle of the round pick again.

    *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I'm glad I didn't have to say it. I've been thinking this to myself for a while now, I just didn't want to be the one with tomatoes on my face.
    I felt the same way myself, I just didn't want to be the first to say it, but I did the other day, pretty bluntly as well. Believe it or not, nobody jumped to his defense really. I was pretty shocked.

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost...3&postcount=96

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Foster has been playing as well as possible but he's not been doing anything that McRoberts couldn't do.

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    Foster has been playing as well as possible but he's not been doing anything that McRoberts couldn't do.

    Jeff got 18 rebounds the other night.

    10 were offensive.

    McBob has a career total of 90 rebounds. Career total.
    Last edited by Speed; 12-07-2009 at 04:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    Foster has been playing as well as possible but he's not been doing anything that McRoberts couldn't do.
    I'm not at all sure that McRoberts is a proven rebounder or savvy defensive presence. I think he's an athletic energy guy who has shown some signs of promise and some signs of WTF!

    I can't say, based on the limited amount of playing time I've seen McRoberts in that he absolutely couldn't do what Foster has been doing but conversely I also cannot see how anyone could say for certain that he is capable.
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  27. #99
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    I wish McBob would get some serious time, just to put the myth to rest that he's ready to even be a rotation player on a really bad team.

    I get he's young and still may be able to become a player, but honestly it could really go the other way just as easily, that he's not even in the league in a couple of years.

    I think we need to be realistic about this whole thing.

  28. #100
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I wish McBob would get some serious time, just to put the myth to rest that he's ready to even be a rotation player. I get he's young and still may be able to become a player, but honestly it could really go the other way just as easily, that he's not even in the league in a couple of years. I think we need to be realistic about this whole thing.
    I actually wish he would turn into the player some people think he is. It would be better for the Pacers.

    I'm not holding my breath on either.

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