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Thread: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

  1. #26

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Just do what I do ...

    I close my eyes ....

    I take a deep breath ....

    I make sure I'm good and relaxed ....

    Then I visualize John Wall in a Indiana Pacer uniform ....

    ..... then all in the world suddenly feels right.

    -- Steve --

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  3. #27

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
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    I feel the exact same way.. and it's a shame because they have so much POTENTIAL
    im not trying to sound pessimistic but... i dont understand where you (and half of this board) sees "so much potential"

    dont get me wrong I thought this team would win around 36-40 games, but not because I thought they were talented... they just overachieved so much last year that I thought they could do it again with their style of play

    On paper, this is at best a 30 win team. it is without a doubt one of the last 5 talented teams in the league. (maaaaybe NY, NJ, Minnesota, and Charlotte...?) I mean I'd throw Milwaukee Sacramento and Houston in there if they werent playing so well. You could make a case that Indiana is less talented than every one of those teams. (yes including NJ) Granger himself is the only thing keeping this team above these teams IMO.

    I just dont see where this potential is. Dunleavy, Hibbert or Dahntay is our 2nd best player... Think about that objectively. How many teams in the league, not taking contract into account, would trade their 2nd best player for any of those 3. (I would reject Hibbert for Kevin Love, Devin Harris, Andrew Bogut, Luis Scola... Id probably take Hibbert for Stephen Jackson or Danilo Galinari though) We start some combination of TJ, Rush/Dahntay, Murphy, and Roy/Foster to go along with Danny. objectively look at those guys and compare them to other teams in the league.

    This team is sorely lacking in talent and instead of these stop gap, nitpicky little mini fixes we waste money on like Dahntay (4 years?!), or draft picks on like Brandon Rush (say what you want about Bayless or Anthony Randolph, but either one is vastly more talented than Brandon Rush) we need a real infusion of talent. Hopefully it happens in the draft or when Murphy's contract becomes an expiring.

    I know talent isnt everything, but you need some to be successful and this team has very little outside of Danny Granger

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  5. #28
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    im not trying to sound pessimistic but... i dont understand where you (and half of this board) sees "so much potential"

    dont get me wrong I thought this team would win around 36-40 games, but not because I thought they were talented... they just overachieved so much last year that I thought they could do it again with their style of play

    On paper, this is at best a 30 win team. it is without a doubt one of the last 5 talented teams in the league. (maaaaybe NY, NJ, Minnesota, and Charlotte...?) I mean I'd throw Milwaukee Sacramento and Houston in there if they werent playing so well. You could make a case that Indiana is less talented than every one of those teams. (yes including NJ) Granger himself is the only thing keeping this team above these teams IMO.

    I just dont see where this potential is. Dunleavy, Hibbert or Dahntay is our 2nd best player... Think about that objectively. How many teams in the league, not taking contract into account, would trade their 2nd best player for any of those 3. (I would reject Hibbert for Kevin Love, Devin Harris, Andrew Bogut, Luis Scola... Id probably take Hibbert for Stephen Jackson or Danilo Galinari though) We start some combination of TJ, Rush/Dahntay, Murphy, and Roy/Foster to go along with Danny. objectively look at those guys and compare them to other teams in the league.

    This team is sorely lacking in talent and instead of these stop gap, nitpicky little mini fixes we waste money on like Dahntay (4 years?!), or draft picks on like Brandon Rush (say what you want about Bayless or Anthony Randolph, but either one is vastly more talented than Brandon Rush) we need a real infusion of talent. Hopefully it happens in the draft or when Murphy's contract becomes an expiring.

    I know talent isnt everything, but you need some to be successful and this team has very little outside of Danny Granger
    I agreed with you everything except until the bolded. I'd reject Hibbert for Jackson, and Scola,and accept for Bogut, Harris and Love, and be very tempted by Gallinari.

  6. #29

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    My first three thoughts when Granger went down:

    1.
    2. At least he'll sit now. He obviously needs to.
    3. . Bird won't evaluate O'Brien's performance without a full lineup.

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  8. #30
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Nobody was "awesome" by any means last night, on both sides, it was a train wreck one that I watched mostly from beginning to end, missed some to watch the Texas game.

    I see where Hibbert has the potential but he doesnt have enough of the post moves or respect of the officials to either get the major advantage from small teams or post up against an actual center and play defense against them.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

    ----------------- Reggie Miller

  9. #31
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    And Danny will finally get to rest from his injuries.
    Will they let Danny rest enough though? Or will it be like with JO? I hope the former, but I fear the latter.
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  11. #32

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Maybe not the right place for this, but instead of starting another negative thread, here we go .................

    I'm not the diehard fan that many around here are. I don't stay up to watch the west-coast games (I'd rather sleep) and I don't adjust my schedule to fit in other broadcasts. I have been a fan since the 70's. I've been thru the highs and lows with the organization. I remember the curtain @ MSA. I wondered 'Reggie WHO ??' when they drafted him.

    That said, I am quickly losing whatever interest I had in this group. Even in the past bad seasons, the guys tried. They played hard. They cared about the game and they cared about losing and they made every effort - though it usually wasn't near enough - to win a game. This group doesn't. The players (with perhaps 1 or 2 exceptions) don't give the effort. Who knows what JOB is thinking - if anything. His contract is guaranteed too.

    It shows in the body language of the guys on the court. It shows in the body language and reactions of the guys on the bench. JOB shows no emotion whatsoever, so again, I wonder what is going thru his mind.

    I'd love to sit down in a little dive bar with Tyler and have a beer with him - I'll buy. If there's one guy that isn't conditioned to the losing and attitude that prevails over this team, he'd be the guy. I'd love to hear his honest analysis of what's going on here.

    I know I'm just one fan, but they're losing me. I also know that I don't stand alone in that world. There's a huge difference between a bad team and a group of guys that simply doesn't care. I can see more competitive and entertaining basketball at a local highschool gym or a CYO league. At least those kids care and have a heart for the game.

    Solution ?? Damned if I know. I think it's gone too far to resolve quickly. But the cure has to start somewhere, somehow, sometime. Keeping things status-quo gives fans like myself - and many of you also - no hope for the future.

  12. #33
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Positives...?????????

    -Echo the thoughts about DG. Maybe this will force him to get healthy.

    -A top 3 draft pick would be a good addition the offseason prior to the big expirings.

    -At least maybe this will finally force us to publicly admit that we are in all out rebuilding mode.

    -Maybe now Luther Head will finally get some run in DG's absence. Like to see what he can offer. Don't understand why he wouldn't play more on an obviously scoring-challenged team other than Rush and TJ have to be kept happy.

    Other thoughts...

    -There's no doubt Roy has good fundamental skills, but I don't know if he has the physical abilities (despite being 7'2") to ever be more than a mediocre center. I guess Smits figured out how to compensate, although he was even taller and, while not exactly physically strong or tough, was definitely more agile from the get go, IMO.

    -Our comparably low athleticism combined with the systems we employ and the strengths of our players result in one of the most disadvantaged teams in the league. (However, I can't really see us being much better no matter what with our talent level.)

    -I also agree with the sentiments that the team last year seemed more together and played hard, thus making them more tolerable and endearing.

    -Quis and Jack's impact is being show to be much more than what we may even have given them credit for last season.

    -The reshuffling due to injury, etc. has most taken the starch out of Dahntay Jones. He looks like a shadow of the guy he was the first 8-10 games. And I don't just mean scoring, b/c I think that was inevitable. I'm talking leadrship, fire on the court, and so forth. Of course, that happens to be something severely lacking right now.

    -All things being equal, I'd take Kaman over Roy right now. Of course, all things are not equal.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  13. #34
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    The saddest thing: we're a game out of the playoffs. No joke.

  14. #35
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Larry doesn't need to fire the coach. He needs to take away the crutch. Trade TJ and Murphy.

    Also, I really like Earl Watson but 0-6 on 3s? Come on, dude.
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Larry doesn't need to fire the coach. He needs to take away the crutch. Trade TJ and Murphy.

    Also, I really like Earl Watson but 0-6 on 3s? Come on, dude.
    No, he needs to fire the coach.

    Who is going to take those guys?

  16. #37
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Larry doesn't need to fire the coach. He needs to take away the crutch. Trade TJ and Murphy.

    Also, I really like Earl Watson but 0-6 on 3s? Come on, dude.
    Don't think you'll ever get a lot of satisfaction out of Earl on 3's. Especially if you're looking for consistency. In terms of shooting and scoring, he's extremely streaky, nothing more. And it's the dreaded hot-cold, no middle ground.

    Passing, floor game, okay D. That's what you hope he can provide regularly. I like Earl, but unspectacular is an adjective that comes to mind. Quintessential back-up PG, IMO. Not a "microwave" off the bench option by a long shot.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Not that it ultimately matters, but the Pacers played two horrible games on this 4 game trip, the bad part is those two games were the two games they had the best chance of winning against the Clips and the Warriors as both of those teams payed bad also. Really, if the Pacers would have played against the Clips or Wariors like they did against the Kings or Jazz, the Pacers would have beaten the Warriors and Clips, and would have had a 2-2 road trip.

    Last night was somewhat predictable. the last of a 4 game road trip, unless you have a mentally tough team, no way you are going to win that - even though the Clippers tried to allow us to win.

    Roy did some nice things offensively, Tyler did some nice things overall

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Just think, job fired, who steps in? none other than LB!!!! (In my dreams!)
    Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    -I also agree with the sentiments that the team last year seemed more together and played hard, thus making them more tolerable and endearing.

    That is the most important question that Bird needs to figure out, why is that happening. It doesn't take talent to play hard and play together. The Kings are a great example of that, they have limited talent and yet they are in every game (like the pacers were last season) and they play hard and together. I figure it is either a chemistry thing amongst the players, leadership problems, jealously amongst players, or there is a problem between the coach and the players.

    Right now the pacers are approaching the number they had all of last season for losses decided by more than 10 points - that is a very troubling sign. That ponts a lack of togetherness, chemistry, playing hard, playing the right way.

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  22. #41
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I looked at the schedule. I think we will be about 10-22 by the end of the year.

    This team needs an offensive plan. JOB's free wheeling thing is not working.
    So, are you saying that the team will be disbanded after 32 games?

    Obviously you meant at the end of the calendar year, just my exceptionally weak attempt at gallows humor.

    Actually, Danny finally going down will hopefully force O'Brien to do what should be done -- allow all of our rookies and young guys to get some burn because expectations have sunk so low to start with that he won't feel pressure to win games, and the only productive thing to do would be to allow this development to take place on the court. That includes Price, McRoberts, Hibbert (allowing him to foul out repeatedly if needed), Hansbrough (as his minute restriction allows), Solo, and Rush (yes, Rush should still play, especially with more of a scoring expectation where he is a primary option like he was when Granger went down last season).

    And, if this is done, I believe we may win a few more games due to a slower pace (presumably) and higher energy level for defense and shooting, especially if we simply go to more of an actual man to man defense like those players are more accustomed to.

    If, OTOH, O'Brien doesn't do that, it should lead to an epiphany on the part of TPTB that we should go ahead and get rid of O'B and try hard to get Byron Scott. Or, who knows, hire Mike Dunleavy Jr. as a player coach like in days of old. Can't be any worse than it is, can it?

  23. #42
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    I don't understand the desire for Bird to step in as coach unless it's to punish him. Bird's strength as a coach was to surround himself with excellent assistant coaches and be a steadying force himself with a veteran team around them all.

    Unless Bird has the ability to be something different then this isn't a situation at all where he'd be expected to excel. That said, he couldn't do any worse than O'Brien at this point...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  25. #43
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Yeah, Bird is not going to coach this team, and no coach with any experience and winning background (Byron Scott) is going to come in during the season. Maybe during the offseason when they can start the season with training camp, install their system, but not right now. For now you are only going to get either a re-tread who hasn't coach in awhile or an asistant coach who maybe has never been an NBA head coach

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Yeah, Bird is not going to coach this team, and no coach with any experience and winning background (Byron Scott) is going to come in during the season. Maybe during the offseason when they can start the season with training camp, install their system, but not right now. For now you are only going to get either a re-tread who hasn't coach in awhile or an asistant coach who maybe has never been an NBA head coach
    Sounds like a massive upgrade.

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I believe I have satisfied the requirements of the thread.


    I'd love to see what we have in A.J. Price. I know he's currently injured, but will Travis Diener ever play again as a Pacer?

    Edit: I am bothered by typos in thread titles.
    Awesome recognition of gams, and thank you for posting some top quality gams at that!

    Unfortunately, we are so stacked with talent at the point guard position that Travis is not even an afterthought currently due to his second toe surgery recently . We shall see when he has all of his toes intact if he creeps back into the lineup, three minutes at a time.

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    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Or, who knows, hire Mike Dunleavy Jr. as a player coach like in days of old.
    I think the league outlawed player-coaches a number of years ago.

  29. #47

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    ChicagoJ and UncleBuck point out rightly that the team is in freefall. Under those conditions, further analysis is pointless. Nothing works right now.

    O'Brien might call one play rather than another, or he might send in one player rather than another. But right now, nothing is working -- even the things that worked last year.

    If you want a silver lining, it is this: The loss of Granger doesn't hurt the team much, because Even Granger hasn't been playing well enough to matter.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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  31. #48

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
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    does anybody actually believe Larry would fire JOB this season?


    I don't see it happening, especially after picking up Jimmy's option. Bird's too proud and stubborn to fire Jimmy b4 the season is over thus putting egg all over his face. UNLESS Bird has no intention of being back next year himself.

    Personally, I'd rather start next season with a new coach, Pres, and a good lottery pick. I truly believe a new start as such would be best for the franchise at this point.

  32. #49

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Will they let Danny rest enough though? Or will it be like with JO? I hope the former, but I fear the latter.


    We share the same fear. I said last week they should just shut him until he is completely healed. No more been there done that JO garbage. Let Granger fully heal!

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  34. #50

    Default Re: Post Gams vs Clips: Roy is awesome! This team is disgusting...

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Maybe not the right place for this, but instead of starting another negative thread, here we go .................

    I'm not the diehard fan that many around here are. I don't stay up to watch the west-coast games (I'd rather sleep) and I don't adjust my schedule to fit in other broadcasts. I have been a fan since the 70's. I've been thru the highs and lows with the organization. I remember the curtain @ MSA. I wondered 'Reggie WHO ??' when they drafted him.

    That said, I am quickly losing whatever interest I had in this group. Even in the past bad seasons, the guys tried. They played hard. They cared about the game and they cared about losing and they made every effort - though it usually wasn't near enough - to win a game. This group doesn't. The players (with perhaps 1 or 2 exceptions) don't give the effort. Who knows what JOB is thinking - if anything. His contract is guaranteed too.

    It shows in the body language of the guys on the court. It shows in the body language and reactions of the guys on the bench. JOB shows no emotion whatsoever, so again, I wonder what is going thru his mind.

    I'd love to sit down in a little dive bar with Tyler and have a beer with him - I'll buy. If there's one guy that isn't conditioned to the losing and attitude that prevails over this team, he'd be the guy. I'd love to hear his honest analysis of what's going on here.

    I know I'm just one fan, but they're losing me. I also know that I don't stand alone in that world. There's a huge difference between a bad team and a group of guys that simply doesn't care. I can see more competitive and entertaining basketball at a local highschool gym or a CYO league. At least those kids care and have a heart for the game.

    Solution ?? Damned if I know. I think it's gone too far to resolve quickly. But the cure has to start somewhere, somehow, sometime. Keeping things status-quo gives fans like myself - and many of you also - no hope for the future.

    A number of weeks ago it was discussed that a player or players weren't happy with O'Brien. In the last 10 games, this team is 1-9 with no fire. Could it be the players have truly tuned out O'Brien, and he's lost them? IDK, but I definately know something isn't right with this team... they AREN'T playing like a team or one that cares.

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