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Thread: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by theboyjwo View Post
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    Well nothing more than speculative opinion like every other post on this board, but the way he has been rebuilding this team tells me he doesn't like making hard decisions. The hard decision would have been to trade Troy Murphy out of here on Draft night and get a higher pick to give us a real solution at PG. Instead he brought in Earl Watson, who is a career back up who is playing starters minutes. Or even trade Foster for young talent or draft picks instead of giving him an extension.
    You consider that a hard decision? Choosing a flavor at Baskin Robbins must keep you up at night.

    I think he's afraid to blow it up and actually rebuild as opposed to 'retooling', but I would guess that's because he has genuine fears about the city losing the team.
    Last edited by LoneGranger33; 12-06-2009 at 04:07 AM.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    You consider that a hard decision? Choosing a flavor at Baskin Robbins must keep you up at night.

    I think he's afraid to blow it up and actually rebuild as opposed to 'retooling', but I would guess that's because he has genuine fears about the city losing the team.
    But thats exactly what i'm talking about. If a guy has a career year, has alot of value, and you know he isn't part of that "Core" you want. He should have been dealt. But Larry is too concerned with keeping the teams relevancy up during this rebuilding period. Which will just lead us to more mediocre at best teams every year.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by theboyjwo View Post
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    But thats exactly what i'm talking about. If a guy has a career year, has alot of value, and you know he isn't part of that "Core" you want. He should have been dealt. But Larry is too concerned with keeping the teams relevancy up during this rebuilding period. Which will just lead us to more mediocre at best teams every year.
    and will decrease team morale as result of our mediocrity, which will in turn hinder development and increase the downward spiral.
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by theboyjwo View Post
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    Well nothing more than speculative opinion like every other post on this board, but the way he has been rebuilding this team tells me he doesn't like making hard decisions. The hard decision would have been to trade Troy Murphy out of here on Draft night and get a higher pick to give us a real solution at PG.
    You do realize no one wants Murphy, right?

    Let alone hoping he would allow us to move anywhere other than down in the draft.

    Or even trade Foster for young talent or draft picks instead of giving him an extension.
    Jeff would likely have gotten us a mid to low draft pick. While not the worst thing imaginable, this certainly wasn't likely to make or break our rebuilding effort, and not doing so is hardly avoiding some kind of "hard decision".

    Bird has said he has a 3 year plan to rebuild, but the fact is, he is rebuilding with middle first rounders. Which to me is a mistake.
    He knows he's not likely to get a star player with these picks. He's collecting what hopes to be solid supporting cast players to be ready to support whatever big player or players that can be gotten either by free agency in 2011 or deadline trades just prior to that using our expiring deals. If not those then using our position under the cap to make lop-sided trades with teams looking to shed salary. Or a combination.

    But then he goes and year after year signs a bunch of one year stop gap players who were bench warmers on some other team and then playing them more than the core group he is trying to develop. Well I should say letting JOB play them more than the core.
    While I share your concern about the playing time for our youth, I can't fault his FA signs in general becase the goal is supposed to be getting your youth experience enough to grow while surrounding them with enough vets to make a playoff push. The reason for that is to try to give the young guys playoff experience so they are as seasoned as possible, which in turn helps not only attract a 2011 FA, but to also give him the most ready team possible to contend right away after the talent level gets a shot in the arm. Additionally, winning more and making the playoffs means more revenue and greater fan interest.

    It's a solid strategy, particularly for this market.

    The current problem is this team, even with all of it's limitations, is under achieving and if it continues for long it might throw somewhat of a wrench in the plan's gears.

    However, unless Bird is convinced this fanbase simply can't take it, I believe the wise move is to stay the coarse with the roster plans and embrace having a higher than expected lottery pick this June.

    Also the firing of Mel Daniels is a huge negative in my book.
    If the way the firing was handled is as it was described in the media, I don't disagree with you there. Regardless, I suspect Mel wasn't the most tactful person in the world, either. I don't think any should be too quick to paint him as a major victim.

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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    My favorite posts are the ones that "plead" to fire the coach and then go on to complain about the players on the roster not being any good...

    And yes, clearly you were the only genius here 8 months ago that didn't like the Indiana state treasure that is Jim O'Brien.

    Here are a couple other things you said in that thread...



    ...and here...



    or here....



    and now?



    I salute you, sir. You certainly made us "wise up."


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  7. #31
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Lawrence Frank is a good coach. I think he's better off with veterans, but he's a good coach.
    He's a coach I have pretty much always liked. Not a top-tier coach, but IMHO an above average coach. I think it's good he's out of New Jersey now and I hope he coaches another team soon. Hopefully a better team then the Nets now though.
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  8. #32
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Let me say something. I used to think and would often say this forum was better when the Pacers were struggling, not this season though, this forum has degenerated into something I'm not too sure I always still want to be a part of.

    The day after the next Pacers coach is hired, I think a new fire the coach thread should be started and stickied and just kept at the top of the page so it is all in one nice thread

    Sorry, UB, hate to disagree with you as one of the members I respect the most (which I do), but have you forgotten the fire Carlisle threads a few years ago? I haven't and it mostly happenned in his last year when the team, just like now, was underperforming and the team looked lost. It felt like everyday or after every loss a new one would come up, so I don't view the situation with JOB as new. Maybe, because of the way JOB likes this team to play accelerates the irritation about him? I dunno .

    While, I don't think JOB has (completely) lost the team yet, I'm quite worried about the wheels completely falling of off our team as this season proceeds. The good news? Getting a better pick then expected in what scouts think could be a pretty good draft class. Hey, you have to hold your hopes to something.

    Anyway, I say what management should do is let JOB coach the team until early january and see where we are then make a decision on what to do next this year: let him finish it or fire him and replace him in january. The conclusion should be that this is his last year though.

    Just my
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  9. #33
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by theboyjwo View Post
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    The hard decision would have been to trade Troy Murphy out of here on Draft night and get a higher pick to give us a real solution at PG. Instead he brought in Earl Watson, who is a career back up who is playing starters minutes.
    Please tell me I am mis-reading your post, or maybe you are just being absurd to make a point. Assuming you are not. Do you really think any team would have ever considered trading their "higher" draft pick for Troy. First, that isn't even a possibility with the salary cap, second, no other team would consider doing that, Third, no other team wants Troy at least not yet (until he is close to being an expiring contract)

    But who knows, maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Kings were trying to trade us Evans for Murphy, or maybe the Bucks were trying to trade us Jennings for Murphy, but Bird just couldn't make the tough decision - except that would have ethe easist decision ever for Bird and either GM in Milwaukee or Sacramento would have been fired for making such a dumb decision. I'm sure the Hornets were calling about trading us Paul for Murphy, surely that was happening also
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-06-2009 at 09:57 AM.

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  11. #34
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Sorry, UB, hate to disagree with you as one of the members I respect the most (which I do), but have you forgotten the fire Carlisle threads a few years ago? I haven't and it mostly happenned in his last year when the team, just like now, was underperforming and the team looked lost. It felt like everyday or after every loss a new one would come up, so I don't view the situation with JOB as new. Maybe, because of the way JOB likes this team to play accelerates the irritation about him? I dunno .

    While, I don't think JOB has (completely) lost the team yet, I'm quite worried about the wheels completely falling of off our team as this season proceeds. The good news? Getting a better pick then expected in what scouts think could be a pretty good draft class. Hey, you have to hold your hopes to something.

    Anyway, I say what management should do is let JOB coach the team until early january and see where we are then make a decision on what to do next this year: let him finish it or fire him and replace him in january. The conclusion should be that this is his last year though.

    Just my

    I remember the fire the coach threads in Carlisle's era, it started around March of Rick's second to last year here (I found several of these old theads about a month ago but they were lost when the forum was down) It obviously didn't start in Rick's first year because the pacers won 61 games, the second year was the brawl, so it couldn't start that season.

    I have no problem with thinking JOB isn't the right coach for the Pacers and right now it is certainly resonable to assume that he has lost the team. That is fine, but why must we have a new thred every third day about it, and for the person who startd this thred to act like he is the only one who ever considered firing JOB it just is too much

  12. #35

    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Buck ................ relax, have a beer, watch the Colts.

    This team doesn't care, why should we ??

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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    ......why must we have a new thred every third day about it, and for the person who startd this thred to act like he is the only one who ever considered firing JOB it just is too much
    Buck, I think the answer to your question is simple. Some posters are just one-trick-ponies. It is simply all they are capable of coming up with to say, so they say it over and over.

    Most of these posters are likely the same ones who wouldn't understand half of what you post, or get Peck's humor in his "odd thoughts" bits, and certainly would be totally lost by the second paragraph of one of T-bird's "basketball clinic in a post" writings.

    I know that will upset a few, and I have been guilty of a bit of it myself over the years, but that is my view and I'm sticking to it.

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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    That is fine, but why must we have a new thred every third day about it, and for the person who startd this thred to act like he is the only one who ever considered firing JOB it just is too much
    That I completely agree with!
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Buck, I think the answer to your question is simple. Some posters are just one-trick-ponies. It is simply all they are capable of coming up with to say, so they say it over and over.

    Most of these posters are likely the same ones who wouldn't understand half of what you post, or get Peck's humor in his "odd thoughts" bits, and certainly would be totally lost by the second paragraph of one of T-bird's "basketball clinic in a post" writings.

    I know that will upset a few, and I have been guilty of a bit of it myself over the years, but that is my view and I'm sticking to it.
    Because some people either have big enough of an ego to think they can create a superior thread, or they're so stupid they don't realize this is already being discussed somewhere else.

  18. #39

    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Because some people either have big enough of an ego to think they can create a superior thread, or they're so stupid they don't realize this is already being discussed somewhere else.

    OR many of the threads are created by newbie posters.

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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Roy has started every game but two and each of those two games were because of matchups, so the fact of the matter is he is still getting a more than fair chance to play well every game. And when he does play well within a game he plays more minutes. Tyler is on a minute limit of 16 per game.
    Oh, why bother

    Let me say something. I used to think and would often say this forum was better when the Pacers were struggling, not this season though, this forum has degenerated into something I'm not too sure I always still want to be a part of.

    The day after the next Pacers coach is hired, I think a new fire the coach thread should be started and stickied and just kept at the top of the page so it is all in one nice thread
    I think merging these to a sticky was a good idea. As an admin, why don't you do it? BTW, Hibbert had a pretty good game last night...

  21. #41

    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    To be quite honest as to why there are so many topics, I've seen at least one new poster start these topics claiming he was from some completely different state in his first post. Continues to ask questions like a newb. Claims he just started following the team ... this is his first post.

    Post 2 rolls around in a different topic, and it's talking about how he heard "Slick" talking about something. All sounded fishy to me. There were some contradictions in the post that made me question if it wasn't someone who signed up just to be a joke. Seen a couple of those lately, actually. That one just stood out because of the blatant contradictions.

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  22. #42
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Remember when we had the "Official JO Trade Rumor Thread"? I think it might be time for a similar thread for JOB.
    Last edited by Los Angeles; 12-06-2009 at 11:08 PM.
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  24. #43

    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Please tell me I am mis-reading your post, or maybe you are just being absurd to make a point. Assuming you are not. Do you really think any team would have ever considered trading their "higher" draft pick for Troy. First, that isn't even a possibility with the salary cap, second, no other team would consider doing that, Third, no other team wants Troy at least not yet (until he is close to being an expiring contract)

    But who knows, maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Kings were trying to trade us Evans for Murphy, or maybe the Bucks were trying to trade us Jennings for Murphy, but Bird just couldn't make the tough decision - except that would have the easiest decision ever for Bird and either GM in Milwaukee or Sacramento would have been fired for making such a dumb decision. I'm sure the Hornets were calling about trading us Paul for Murphy, surely that was happening also
    Sure Troy for a higher draft pick doesn't work. But I believe that a trade of sorts could have happened that resulted in getting rid of murphy and taking back a couple of players plus an extra first round draft pick. Those couple of players we took back could have been a back up PG or bench warmer like Solo. Any team in rebuilding mode needs more than 1 first round draft pick per year. Instead we let our second best player walk away for nothing and signed a few scrubs for league minimum and only added one talented rookie. Resulting in a team that is obviously worse than last years.

    The talk about going after a big free agent the year Murphy and Dun expire is rediculous. You know its not going to happen. No big name is going to come here to lose along side granger. Pacers have to build with in using the draft. All small market teams must do this.

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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    Remember when we had the "Official JO Trade Rumor Thread"? I think it might be time for a similar thread for JOB.
    There are plenty of threads already. Make it stop.

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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by theboyjwo View Post
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    Sure Troy for a higher draft pick doesn't work. But I believe that a trade of sorts could have happened that resulted in getting rid of murphy and taking back a couple of players plus an extra first round draft pick.
    Could you elaborate on this? What sort of trades are you imagining that were realistic?

  27. #46
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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    In a bit of derail here, what do you think of Patrick Ewing's prospects to be a successful NBA head coach? I'm actually starting to warm to the idea that he could be pretty good at it.

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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Could you elaborate on this? What sort of trades are you imagining that were realistic?
    I imagine something could've been worked out with the T-wolves. They had 4 1st rounders and some serious turdlog contracts like Telfair, Madsen, Thomas, Cardinal, Mike Miller and Songalia. Of course, they would've wanted more than just Murphy but it's not completely impossible.

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    Default Re: Pleading to fire coach O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I imagine something could've been worked out with the T-wolves. They had 4 1st rounders and some serious turdlog contracts like Telfair, Madsen, Thomas, Cardinal, Mike Miller and Songalia. Of course, they would've wanted more than just Murphy but it's not completely impossible.
    Why would Minnesota, a team clearly looking to stock up on young talent, want to take on Murphy and his contract just so they can give away cap space and a pick? Even if we threw more in, I don't see it, and at that point I don't know why we'd want to give up more than that just to get a lower 1st round pick.

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