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Thread: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    I want to embrace Granger as this team's star. But he's been chucking too much, not playing defense as well as he could, and not passing the ball incredibly well. He's settling for so many jumpshots. That's the difference between a good player like Danny and a great player like Lebron. Lebron James averages 9 assists per game! Danny averages 2.8. If Danny were able to average something like 5 apg and get to the line, say, 2 more times per game off of drives, he'd be infinitely better than he is now. That should be realistic for him, but right now it doesn't appear he has that ability to be better than he is (a good second option) to as good as he can be (definitely not Lebron or Kobe, I don't expect that at all, but only one tier below I think is a reasonable expectation).
    Watching Danny drive through the lane is painful. Once you think he's got a clear drive, boom! The lane is clogged with defenders and he can't finish.

    I think going back to the philosophy of using Troy to open that up more has depended on his ability to shoot from outside efficiently. Obviously that hasn't worked out like it was planned.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Because even last year when he had his career year, he made us worse.
    Blanket statement! This is just the kind of Troy bashing that I think is without merit.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Because even last year when he had his career year, he made us worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    Blanket statement! This is just the kind of Troy bashing that I think is without merit.
    I will have to agree, that statement is just too open for me to consider it viable.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    croz?
    I'm thinking Country Boy.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'm thinking Country Boy.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Really? Seems way, way too coherent to be Country Boy.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Really? Seems way, way too coherent to be Country Boy.
    CB 2.0: Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    Well crafted, do you mean like the ones that simply say Troy sucks and should not be playing one minute? As I have previously stated, I am not a Troy supporter, however I will speak up for him when he is being made as the team scape goat.
    We're 6-11 with a five game winning streak in the middle.

    Why shouldn't there be one or more scape goats?

    If you're saying Troy and TJ aren't the only two players that suck and we should be critical of evern more of them, then okay.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I call you a troll because your not trying to look at both sides of the coin, your trying to push buttons.

    I never said Granger hasn't become a chucker, he has. However, your saying he is the main reason we are one of the worst teams in the NBA - hence you being a troll. You praise coach O'Brien but criticize Granger's shot selection, when O'Brien is the one encouraging Granger to shoot like that.

    Also, "You don't want the truth, you can't handle the truth." are you being serious right now? I hope so, because the fact that you would say something that cheesy while being serious is hilarious.

    I have no problem with you, I really don't - but I believe your a troll. Every board has them, people who come to post just to push peoples buttons. It is what it is, I'm just calling it like I see it.
    I have never praised coach O'Brien. My attempt to show how crazy this Troy bashing has gotten led to my Danny comment. Do I think Danny is the main reason that the Pacers are one of the worst teams in the NBA, no I don't. He is however, contributing to the teams woes as much if not more than Troy. Now if that is trolling, guilty as charged. How can you justify calling me a troll when almost all posters here are guilty of trolling with their incessant Troy bashing? This reminds me of when Jackson was being hammered often without reason. It has become cool to bash Troy and if anyone trys to show how off the charts this bashing has become they are now a troll. Please!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Do you understand why Tyler is being benched after good play? If your answer is no, then he's the same player to you that McRoberts is to Seth.
    Well, except for the fact that I admit there are a lot of things I don't personally understand that might have very good reasons.

    Not sure Seth admits that
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    He probably has more to do with the Pacers being bottom feeders than anyone else on the team.
    Unfortunately for us, Mr. Ray spends less than 1% of his time expalining himself, providing depth or examples, or substance to his posts.

    So let me take this and try to do some justice to it. Because it is time to consider that there may be some hidden substance to this comment.

    Granger may be Clark Kellogg version 3.0 or Shareef Abdur-Rahim version 2.0 (Shareef was Clark Kellogg versoin 2.0.)

    Except that Clark was a perennial "best player on a 20-odd win team" and Danny is the best player on a 36-win team. So that's got to count for something. Chuck and John Long at least took Clark's teammates to the playoffs. Could we swap out Granger and one other player from this roster and be in the playoffs?

    I like Granger. Then again, in 1985 I was trying to defend Kellogg until the 86-87 season made it obvious that the best statistical player on a bad team may be the source of the losing. (Prior to 86-87, I assumed Herb Williams was the biggest part of the problem.)

    Just saying...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  15. #62
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    I'll give credit where credit is due, and Troy was one of our better performers last night. His jumper looked better. He didn't chuck so much and took it to the basket a few times, even if he got a pretty ugly and obvious offensive foul called on him one of the times, I'd rather have him at least try to take it to the basket like that than always shoot the 3.

    If Troy played like that every game, I'd be relatively happy with him. Same goes for T.J.

    I want to embrace Granger as this team's star. But he's been chucking too much, not playing defense as well as he could, and not passing the ball incredibly well. He's settling for so many jumpshots. That's the difference between a good player like Danny and a great player like Lebron. Lebron James averages 9 assists per game! Danny averages 2.8. If Danny were able to average something like 5 apg and get to the line, say, 2 more times per game off of drives, he'd be infinitely better than he is now. That should be realistic for him, but right now it doesn't appear he has that ability to be better than he is (a good second option) to as good as he can be (definitely not Lebron or Kobe, I don't expect that at all, but only one tier below I think is a reasonable expectation).
    Is it too difficult to figure out that Danny is in a funk because the ingredients that gave us the five game streak got pre-empted by politics and favoritism? I'd be depressed too.
    .

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....



    Is this why we call Duke Princess?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    I have never praised coach O'Brien. My attempt to show how crazy this Troy bashing has gotten led to my Danny comment. Do I think Danny is the main reason that the Pacers are one of the worst teams in the NBA, no I don't. He is however, contributing to the teams woes as much if not more than Troy. Now if that is trolling, guilty as charged. How can you justify calling me a troll when almost all posters here are guilty of trolling with their incessant Troy bashing? This reminds me of when Jackson was being hammered often without reason. It has become cool to bash Troy and if anyone trys to show how off the charts this bashing has become they are now a troll. Please!
    Saying Danny is contributing to the teams woes more so than Murphy is trying to push the buttons. There is just no way you can justify that. Even as a chucker, he is still doing good on offense and playing much better defense than Troy.

    Not to mention, Danny is the only good offensive player we have, have you seen the way other teams guard him? Its even harder for him this year as Troy hasn't been able to spread the floor like last year so defenses close in on Danny even more.

    I have not been bashing Murphy, but if you look at the games, he and TJ are the main reasons we are losing. To defend those accusations and put more blame on Granger and Hibbert are just insane. For Granger to become that player we all know he can be, he needs a PG who can run an offense, a coach who can run a play, and another player to take some pressure off of him. He has none of those.

    I still like Troy. After Dunleavy's career year, I said we should trade him. After Murphy's, I thought we should keep him. But looking at it now, he and TJ are holding this team back. I don't think your a troll for defending Troy, I agree with you that he is getting far more blame than he should, I'm calling you a troll from the way you are going about it, making comments like it being more so Granger's fault and other comments you have made like that.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Saying Danny is contributing to the teams woes more so than Murphy is trying to push the buttons. There is just no way you can justify that. Even as a chucker, he is still doing good on offense and playing much better defense than Troy.

    Not to mention, Danny is the only good offensive player we have, have you seen the way other teams guard him? Its even harder for him this year as Troy hasn't been able to spread the floor like last year so defenses close in on Danny even more.

    I have not been bashing Murphy, but if you look at the games, he and TJ are the main reasons we are losing. To defend those accusations and put more blame on Granger and Hibbert are just insane. For Granger to become that player we all know he can be, he needs a PG who can run an offense, a coach who can run a play, and another player to take some pressure off of him. He has none of those.

    I still like Troy. After Dunleavy's career year, I said we should trade him. After Murphy's, I thought we should keep him. But looking at it now, he and TJ are holding this team back. I don't think your a troll for defending Troy, I agree with you that he is getting far more blame than he should, I'm calling you a troll from the way you are going about it, making comments like it being more so Granger's fault and other comments you have made like that.
    Fine, I can live with that viewpoint.

    I am glad that Danny is a Pacer, period. I am disappointed in they way he is now playing. He reminds me of the way Rick Mount used to operate back in the day. I think that Danny by shooting so early in the clock disrupts any offensive plan the team may have. How can posters here justify their clamor for more playing time for Roy if Danny shoots the ball at half court three seconds into the shot clock? Does Roy even make it to half court before Danny fires away? Yeah that is stretching it a little, but you get my point.
    Last edited by GuffeyRay; 12-05-2009 at 06:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    Fine, I can live with that viewpoint.

    I am glad that Danny is a Pacer, period. I am disappointed in they way he is now playing. He reminds me of the way Rick Mount used to operate back in the day. I think that Danny by shooting so early in the clock disrupts any offensive plan the team may have. How can posters hear justify their clamor for more playing time for Roy if Danny shoots the ball at half court three seconds into the shout clock? Does Roy even make it to half court before Danny fires away? Yeah that is stretching it a little, but you get my point.
    I'm not entirely sure that isn't the offensive plan...assuming we have one.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Can you please defend Troy? I would like to see a well-crafted defense for why he should be playing the second-most minutes on this team.
    I'll give you a promisory note on that- perhaps after final exams..?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    I call you a troll because your not trying to look at both sides of the coin, your trying to push buttons.

    I never said Granger hasn't become a chucker, he has. However, your saying he is the main reason we are one of the worst teams in the NBA - hence you being a troll. You praise coach O'Brien but criticize Granger's shot selection, when O'Brien is the one encouraging Granger to shoot like that.

    Also, "You don't want the truth, you can't handle the truth." are you being serious right now? I hope so, because the fact that you would say something that cheesy while being serious is hilarious.

    I have no problem with you, I really don't - but I believe your a troll. Every board has them, people who come to post just to push peoples buttons. It is what it is, I'm just calling it like I see it.
    Pot meet Kettle.

  21. #68

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Unfortunately for us, Mr. Ray spends less than 1% of his time expalining himself, providing depth or examples, or substance to his posts.

    So let me take this and try to do some justice to it. Because it is time to consider that there may be some hidden substance to this comment.

    Granger may be Clark Kellogg version 3.0 or Shareef Abdur-Rahim version 2.0 (Shareef was Clark Kellogg versoin 2.0.)

    Except that Clark was a perennial "best player on a 20-odd win team" and Danny is the best player on a 36-win team. So that's got to count for something. Chuck and John Long at least took Clark's teammates to the playoffs. Could we swap out Granger and one other player from this roster and be in the playoffs?

    I like Granger. Then again, in 1985 I was trying to defend Kellogg until the 86-87 season made it obvious that the best statistical player on a bad team may be the source of the losing. (Prior to 86-87, I assumed Herb Williams was the biggest part of the problem.)

    Just saying...
    You are treading on holy ground whispering blasphemy here...

    But, of course, it is something to be considered. I think the Pacers always have to keep the options open to improve the team. Danny is at the highest value he will ever be at probably, he is in the prime of his career.

    For one thing, Trading Danny is risky business though, he is the face of the franchise, the only person on the roster the casual fan even knows about. So there is the risk of alienating the fans, but then again, that begs the question... What Fans?! It really can't get much worse, so pandering to fans is a horrible strategy for roster changes.

    Secondly, what type of players do we want in return? Personally, I want Dwilliams and Al Horford I'd be happy with that swap. Any deal including Danny would have to include Murph for me to be happy as well.

    Anyway it is all speculation, but I don't think we or TPTB should be scared to speculate about trading Danny. I don't think Larry has the guts to do it though. Unless Danny requests a trade, he will be here until he is old and worn down.

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  23. #69
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    In theory, PR should never be taken into account when making a trade. But because NBA teams have to worry about immediate bottom lines, it has to be in some circumstances.

    The only situations where any players from Indiana sports teams have had guys that really could not have been traded are the present day situation of Peyton Manning, and Reggie. Both of these guys earned the endearment of the city. Reggie was a pure LA personality and basked in the spotlight here. Peyton seems more reticent but it is really unavoidable in his case as he is the Lebron of the NFL.

    Danny Granger isn't to that level. He shies away from the spotlight, and he is well-liked but he is far, far away from the popularity level of Peyton or Reggie, as he doesn't sell out Conseco, ever. He is not an untradeable player. You don't give him up easily, but you consider offers and if a great one comes in you take it. Saying we should never trade trade Danny at this point is like saying Chuck Person was an untradable guy for the Pacers.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Watching Danny drive through the lane is painful. Once you think he's got a clear drive, boom! The lane is clogged with defenders and he can't finish.
    He's not shooting well this year, and the rest of the team isn't either. I think the problem is OB is concentrating on defense and thus the offense is off. Last year we could score with anyone and it kept us in games, this year the defense is 4 points better, but the offense is 7 points worse.

    What else isn't helping is bringing in six and seven players a year, but that's understandable when you are trying to improve your roster while still staying under the tax.

    Back to Danny. OB took him out early yesterday against Utah after he hosted 4 threes in the first five minutes. When OB put him back in he immediately started driving the ball. The thing is he has to recognize when they are cutting his drive off and either pass it or shoot the floater.

    What the Pacers need more than anything is a reliable scorer who can take the pressure off of Danny. Hopefully Dun will be able to do that when he is cleared to play regular minutes.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by Burtrem Redneck View Post
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    Unless Danny requests a trade, he will be here until he is old and worn down.

    If this season keeps going the way it has, 1-8 in the last 9 games, and Danny's attitude doesn't change, I could see Granger requesting a trade. He wouldn't be the 1st to do it.

    I will give Murph credit in I haven't seen him with a sour attitude, with all the heat fans are giving him, like I constantly see with Granger.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by GuffeyRay View Post
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    Fine, I can live with that viewpoint.

    I am glad that Danny is a Pacer, period. I am disappointed in they way he is now playing. He reminds me of the way Rick Mount used to operate back in the day. I think that Danny by shooting so early in the clock disrupts any offensive plan the team may have. How can posters here justify their clamor for more playing time for Roy if Danny shoots the ball at half court three seconds into the shot clock? Does Roy even make it to half court before Danny fires away? Yeah that is stretching it a little, but you get my point.
    And right here I think you have figured out one of the main points of the JOB defensive scheme...If they chuck up a quick 3 before Roy (and most of the team) get across the mid court line, then they have time to get back and pack the lane for the fast break that's sure to follow because there sure as hell won't be anyone under the basket to rebound

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    Pot meet Kettle.
    Says the guy who left realgm because he was so disliked. 0_0

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Awesome View Post
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    Says the guy who left realgm because he was so disliked. 0_0
    Who the hell are you, why do you slander me, and that still doesn't change the fact that you are as bad of a troll as Guffey.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts while thanking God that the Bobcats laid down tonight....



    Now, Scooter, he ain't hurtin' nobody.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 12-05-2009 at 10:11 PM.

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