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Thread: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

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    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Danny had an unbelievable year last year and a great year prior to that. This year he has looked terrible most of the year.

    I don't have the statistic, but I am sure his FG% is terrible. He probably has the worst handles of any starting small forward in the league, it's actually embarassing to watch him dribble.

    So far Dahntay Jones has been the Pacers best player this year, to me that is an undeniable fact! He is the only guy who has given his all every minute on the floor, he makes plays, he makes shots, he plays defense, he gets the team going, he is a leader! This is a guy who is basically a journeyman.

    I hope that Granger is just banged up and that is why his shot isn't falling. Outside of his shooting, my biggest problem is his decision making and attitude. I do not see him getting the players excited and I do not see him consistently putting forth effort on defense. He also needs to realize he is NOT a one on one player, in fact he is probably one of the worst one on one players on our team. He is a jumpshooter with the ability to be an excellent defensive player. Unfortunately, he is acting like he is Lebron James on offense and he is just not that talented.

    Obrien's system leads to inflated statistics....and I think that some of his statistical success from last season has gone to Grangers head. I think he was much better as a guy who was underrated and had something to prove. Now it almost seems like he has an "entitlement complex."

    Please convince me I am wrong and that Granger is the same player I have loved watching progress to the level he is capable of playing at (last year). I have been surprised at how many people are saying Murphy needs to go (i actually agree), all the while Granger is just getting a pass.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    I'm in complete agreement. He does seem to carry himself differently. I don't know. His shot selection is terrible, as are his handles.

    I think he gets a pass to an extent because he's injured and people can blame it on that. I see it differently though.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    I think it's a problem with the offensive scheme, or lack thereof.

    In fact, you'd think Dunleavy was the coach. No movement unless Dun is on the floor.
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    This might have something to do with his performance...

    From IndyStar.com http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2009912010357
    Pacers forward Danny Granger knows he should probably sit out so his sprained left knee and bruised right heel can get better.

    "I have to play through it," Granger said. "We have an opportunity right now where we're in the mix of things. The standings are real close. There's not really one team that's dominating too much."

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    Danny Granger PowerRanger DGPR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    I just hate to see Troy jack up 3 pointers that hit hard off the front of the rim. It's all or nothing with his shots, either they hit the front of the rim and bounce out of the arena or they go in and hit the net so hard it looks like NBA Jam when the ball catches fire and the net burns to cinders. Danny has looked rather dull the past few games also, not moving around a lot and just looking all around uninterested other than getting his numbers. I thought TJ Ford looked the most involved in the game last night which is a good thing itself, but bad when nobody else is there to help him.
    I gave him a little bit of hell myself.
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by AG77 View Post
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    This might have something to do with his performance...

    From IndyStar.com http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2009912010357

    last thing we need is another JO....

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by bellisimo View Post
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    last thing we need is another JO....
    I was focusing on his toughness not a long term injury lol.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    Obrien's system leads to inflated statistics....and I think that some of his statistical success from last season has gone to Grangers head. I think he was much better as a guy who was underrated and had something to prove. Now it almost seems like he has an "entitlement complex."

    I can't disagree with you. I've said in a couple of threads in the last few days I'm disappointed in Granger and his attitude. Maybe his having been an Allstar last year has led him to a feeling of entitlement and a sour attitude. I have stated b4 his stats look like Stephen Jackson. 41% FGA, 35% 3 pt, and shooting 9 3's per game which is a little less than half the 3 ptrs being shot. I'm not giving Granger a pass whatsoever with his play this year. I'm unimpressed with Granger this season. Is this another case of I got my contract syndrome?

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    This is another predictable thread of people who like to break their favorite toys.

    Granger is the Pacers' best player and he's paid a salary that is commensurate with his impact and production.

    He's an all-star. He's not an elite player, but he's not paid like one either. Don't blame him for not being able to singlehandedly make a bad team into a good one. Granger is playing hurt and giving it all. He's busting his butt out there but now he's being criticized for not being more talented than he is and for not being Magic Johnson in the leadership department.

    Also don't forget that now that he's an established star, teams are going to hound him more defensively. They're going to start game planning for him more and more, if they hadn't already. This is the life a star in the league faces. You're not some fresh faced kid flying under the radar.

    I also hope this makes people realize how good someone like Carmelo Anthony is, someone who people in the past said there was no way they'd trade Danny for. Carmelo has been facing scrutiny, criticism, double and triple teams and been the focus of every opposing defense from the moment he entered the league. He's gone through the meat grinder and has emerged as a perennial star. Through all this burden, scrutiny and pressure he produces year after year. He'll probably never be a real MVP candidate (his game just isn't versatile enough), but he'll be close.

    So now it's Granger's turn to face the burdens that come along with being a star. He's scrutinized more by fans, media and opposing defenses. Flaws that people used to gloss over are now being magnified. As good as he is, he's being criticized for not being even better. It's the same stuff that guys like Dirk, Pierce and Carmelo have faced year after year.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    as i've always stated, granger just is not cut out to be a franchise player...fans and the pacers organization need to realize this if the pacers hope to become a contender again. can he be a great #2 option? yes! but not a #1...on this board granger is rarely criticized in posts because doing so labels you as a "troll" and you get ban threats...but maybe that was just me?

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    So now it's Granger's turn to face the burdens that come along with being a star. He's scrutinized more by fans, media and opposing defenses. Flaws that people used to gloss over are now being magnified. As good as he is, he's being criticized for not being even better. It's the same stuff that guys like Dirk, Pierce and Carmelo have faced year after year.
    Not all players can handle the pressure. Lets hope Granger can and improve his game at the same time.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by AG77 View Post
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    This might have something to do with his performance...

    From IndyStar.com http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2009912010357
    Yes, I think the injuries go a long way toward explaining why Danny is not driving to the basket or playing good D. We're in for a very long season of compensating injuries if this isn't addressed right away. Probably he'll tough it out for half a season or a little more and then get put on the shelf. I think he should be forced to sit for awhile right now so we have a chance with a healthy DG down the stretch.

    All that said - part of his new demeanor/attitude might be due to injuries but there's most likely more to it than that. I think he thought the team was significantly better than it has shown itself to be so far and he's letting that frustration get to him. There might also be some overinflated ego in there now that he is "All-Star Danny Granger." I don't know. But I do know that this is an area he can and should work on if he's to be a leader of any sort on this team.

    He's human, he wants to win, and he's feeling the pressures of being "the man" now - I'm giving him some time to process this and figure out a better way before I throw him completely under the bus. If he seems to have the same attitude/approach a month from now...
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    I think one factor in people's opinions here, and I know I see this in myself, is that I think the Pacers can get by with Murphy coming off the bench...maybe even better than we are...whereas I can't conceive of benching Granger. For one thing, his ....mmmm...struggles?...this season haven't reached anywhere near a Troy-like level, and for another, we would be well and genuinely hosed if he did fall off dramatically in his performance this year.

    Still, he is getting criticism...for shot selection if nothing else. I know some have addressed a perceived lack of leadership, or a pouty attitude. I hope that attitude of his is frustration at the results we're getting lately, and is the kind of frustration that makes you keep trying harder and harder, rather than turn off.

    Hey, every season needs a little drama, eh?
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Danny has always gotten the fan love here. There has been alot of grumbling about his defense over the past couple years. As in he is not as aware of what is going on as he should be, I think most figured he would catch on and end up being Artest's defensive replacement. That hasn't happened. He also has always had a green light on the offense because he puts up such big numbers and who else really can?

    You have to wonder how he would fare in a system where he didn't have the green light everytime he touched the ball. Or on a team where he wasn't the best player or first option, say he was on the Nuggets, or Miami, or Cleveland even Dallas. He would be under 15ppg probably.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    He's busting his butt out there but now he's being criticized for not being more talented than he is and for not being Magic Johnson in the leadership department.
    People are criticizing him for poor shot selection, terrible ball handling, excessive turnovers, no movement without the ball, mediocre defense, and lack of leadership. Nothing to do with talent.

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    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Probably because there's a lot more reason to criticize the coach. Trust me, he gives everyone all kinds of options. Too many to count.

    Actually a better question is why would Granger get criticism? He has done just about everything right off the basketball court and done very well on it. He is our only all-star and has shed teeth on the floor to win games. He's even toned down his whining to the officials a bit IMO...which was my only criticism. No, he's not a great defensive player, but the other players who see the court are a whole lot worse on that side of the floor than Granger. What I do know is that Danny could be part of a very solid defense.

    Maybe he should have lost some molars too. IDK. I think your time is best spent complaining about Troy Murphy and JOb.

  20. #17

    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Danny is definitely not playing to his potential but i could say that about a lot of the pacers. He is no different than anyone else on the team.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Danny Granger gets no criticism because he is the least of the Pacers' problems.

  22. #19

    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Shake the haters off Danny!
    Shot selection and stupid fouls are the only things I can find fault with him this year so far. Taking more 3's than 2's is just simply a bad idea. But also on the other hand rarely have I seen any of his teammates set a solid screen or pick for him to open up in to the lane.

    On the stupid fouls, it just seems like in several games he had a lapse in focus and committed dumb fouls in succession. But just two games ago he actually played a great series of defense against Dirk, for the few minutes JOB allowed.

    Playing with nagging injuries certainly affects your performance, but the guy is still averaging 24pts a game. Numbers are there, just seems like he hasn't had the same impact as he had last year. The Killer instinct isn't there so far this year.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Man, I said something to this effect in the postgame thread last night. I'm just happy I'm not alone here.

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    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Just to clear something up...I am well aware that Granger is not Magic Johnson and I do not expect him to become more talented than he is. I think he is a very smart player, who "generally speaking" makes up for his lack of talent (that is talent relative to other all star players) by playing smart. Many people around the league refer to his style of play as "old school" and to me that simply means playing smart and not relying on freakish athletic ability.

    I feel like this year he is not playing as smart and is relying more on his limited talents/athletic abilities (again relative to other all star players).

    I have seen him attempt to dribble through multiple defenders way too many times this year, I have also seen him blow fast break opportunities by taking extremely difficult shots instead of simply passing the ball.

    Many players make these mistakes on a regular basis, I just am not used to seeing Granger play this way...that is my problem. I think part of being a franchise player is taking criticism for not playing up to your abilities...i also think if he is injured he needs to sit!!! We do not need another Jermaine O'neal as the face of the franchise. I'd rather go on a 5 game losing streak, then have Granger injured for the next couple of seasons.

    Also, I am pretty sure last year every team in the league knew to focus their defense on Granger when they played the Pacers. I personally do not agree with the arguement that he is facing a more focused defensive scheme by the opposing teams.
    *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    I'm worried about him. I think the injuries play a role, but there's something up with his mentality, too. His handles really need to improve as well.

    All I can do for now is wait and see. He's done enough here for me to give him time to right the ship. He gets a very long leash from me.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    I think his head is a little inflated. The past couple years he was motivated by the doubters who did not think he could be an impact player in the league; now that he has proven himself I don't think he has the same hunger/drive he used to.

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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    I also think a big problem.. not only with Danny , but the whole team.........................................
    is TRUST issues ...


    If you noticed, in the 5 game winning streak... ALL of the players seemed to TRUST each other, and it made for alot more movement of the ball , as well as movement of the bodies on the floor.. Which in turn .. led to players exhibiting ALOT more confidence in their game on both ends of the floor.. (offense AND defense )

    It seems to me, that the players simply are playing too cautious and scared...
    Which leads not only to more dumb turnovers, but no ball movement , no enthusiasm on the court or the bench ... and most of all poor shot selection ..
    It seems like Danny is trying to put the whole team on his back and he is beyond frustrated (which is what we are seeing from him in terms of his perceived "attitude") (which he cannot do when he is hurting from injury).. which leads to his erratic driving in the lanes (sometimes leading to a turnover) , and jacking up alot of 3's (in hopes of getting us back into game )... I think he has some minor trust issues with everyone on the team right now.. I don't know if his uncomfortableness is solely on O'Brien , but I am guessing partially yes..

    I think that everyone on the team are skittish right now and the on-court chemistry is in serious need of being shocked with some diffibulator paddles ..
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    Default Re: Why does Danny Granger get no criticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore View Post
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    Just to clear something up...I am well aware that Granger is not Magic Johnson and I do not expect him to become more talented than he is. I think he is a very smart player, who "generally speaking" makes up for his lack of talent (that is talent relative to other all star players) by playing smart. Many people around the league refer to his style of play as "old school" and to me that simply means playing smart and not relying on freakish athletic ability.

    I feel like this year he is not playing as smart and is relying more on his limited talents/athletic abilities (again relative to other all star players).

    I have seen him attempt to dribble through multiple defenders way too many times this year, I have also seen him blow fast break opportunities by taking extremely difficult shots instead of simply passing the ball.

    Many players make these mistakes on a regular basis, I just am not used to seeing Granger play this way...that is my problem. I think part of being a franchise player is taking criticism for not playing up to your abilities...i also think if he is injured he needs to sit!!! We do not need another Jermaine O'neal as the face of the franchise. I'd rather go on a 5 game losing streak, then have Granger injured for the next couple of seasons.

    Also, I am pretty sure last year every team in the league knew to focus their defense on Granger when they played the Pacers. I personally do not agree with the arguement that he is facing a more focused defensive scheme by the opposing teams.
    Granger is better scouted out this year. His tendencies and what he likes to do are all scouted out and these things are better known. He's not the first guy to have a breakout year that gets followed by a season where he shoots a lower percentage. That's how this league works.

    And he's playing hurt. On top of all this, he doesn't have the help he had last year. Troy Murphy had a career season last year shooting the ball. This year, he's having a far worse year.

    Jarrett Jack was a pretty clutch guy last year in the 4th quarter nailing all kinds of big shots. He was the Pacers 2nd best player in the 4th quarter. He's not here this season and the Pacers alternatives are an erratic TJ Ford and a Earl Watson, who has shot a career 41% FG.

    Marquis Daniels was effective last year in certain spurts. He wasn't consistent due to his usual injuries, but when he played he gave a boost. That's not there this season.

    Those are all big factors in putting a load on Granger. Dahntay Jones has been a nice surprise, but he's a career 7th/8th man, non-offensive role player who's been thrust into the #2 scoring option. That pretty much tells you what kind of team Danny has to carry. Is Granger forcing things? Sure. He doesn't have much of a choice when his team is consistently down double digits or blowing double digit leads.

    You can try implementing a San Antonio Spurs type system to take the pressure off one guy as so many people on this board clamor for, but with this team's personnel, it's going to look a lot more like the Memphis Grizzlies than the Spurs (at least in the W-L column).

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