Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 70

Thread: JOB got what he asked for

  1. #1
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,081

    Default JOB got what he asked for

    Over the summer, JOB complained that he couldn't win because he didn't have good defensive players.

    Larry Bird went out and got him Watson, DJones, and Solo.

    When Murphy and TJ were injured, the new defensive players, much needed in order to win according to JOB, got lots of minutes and went on a five game winning streak, the longest in JOB's career as the Pacers coach.

    The last few games, JOB has decreased the minutes of the defensive players he asked for over the summer to win games: Watson, DJones, and Solo.

    For me, JOB does not back up his talk with action.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  2. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to McKeyFan For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Member sportfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Louisiana
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,178
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    two words: FIRE O'BRIEN

  4. #3
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,046

    Thumbs down Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Oh good grief! Another O'B thread!

    And what you are saying makes little sense since he's still using them.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Will Galen For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Oh good grief! Another O'B thread!

    And what you are saying makes little sense since he's still using them.
    Of course it makes sense. Using a "key" tool less implies that you think its less needed. JOB is chosing the old over the new when the choice has to be made. Hed rather have Troy and Dun for offense than his defensive aces for stops. So far he's only played more for defense when he had no choice. He even reduced tylers minutes

    Its clear that his priorities are outsude shooting and vet players to "win now". When he is forced to chose that's the choice he makes.

  7. #5
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,615

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Oh good grief! Another O'B thread!

    And what you are saying makes little sense since he's still using them.
    No, it makes perfect sense. Maybe he's still playing them, but all of them have seen their roles changed/reduced. It's just flat out criminal that Dahntay won't be starting unless players are injured.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 11-28-2009 at 01:52 PM.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  9. #6

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Oh good grief! Another O'B thread!

    And what you are saying makes little sense since he's still using them.
    It's the way he's using them that matters or rather who some of these defensive players are paired with that makes them better. I say give JOB a few more games to try and sort through this. I mean, he now has 14 health bodies at his disposal, 12 of which are sure to see regular playing time. The question for JOB is how does he find the right mix of players - the right balance - to utilize these players in the right situations. I think he sometimes needs to forget about monitoring a player's time and stick with what's working out there.

  10. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    437

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No, it makes perfect sense. Maybe he's still playing them, but all of them have seen their roles changed. It's just flat out criminal that Dahntay won't be starting unless players are injured.
    The guy has been our best player this season, by far, and he gets demoted?

    Criminal is the perfect word.

  11. #8
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,615

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Its clear that his priorities are outsude shooting and vet players to "win now". When he is forced to chose that's the choice he makes.
    The ironic thing is that those vet players actually give us a worse chance to "win now" than the young/new guys.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  13. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    437

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The ironic thing is that those vet players actually give us a worse chance to "win now" than the young/new guys.
    Same thing we said last year. Nothing has changed.

  14. #10
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,566

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Of course it makes sense. Using a "key" tool less implies that you think its less needed. JOB is chosing the old over the new when the choice has to be made. Hed rather have Troy and Dun for offense than his defensive aces for stops. So far he's only played more for defense when he had no choice. He even reduced tylers minutes

    Its clear that his priorities are outsude shooting and vet players to "win now". When he is forced to chose that's the choice he makes.
    That's what I've been saying and is concerned about.....JO'B will always default to playing players that he's comfortable with. Once Dunleavy is healthy, we're going to go back to the same lineup we had last season.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  15. #11
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    13,373
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's what I've been saying and is concerned about.....JO'B will always default to playing players that he's comfortable with. Once Dunleavy is healthy, we're going to go back to the same lineup we had last season.
    Isn't that what the coach is supposed to do? Put in the best players he thinks he has?

    One thing people don't realize is that the coach is around during practice, and to everyone's surprise leading such practices. He sees things that we don't during the games. Am I wrong?

  16. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    437

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Isn't that what the coach is supposed to do? Put in the best players he thinks he has?

    One thing people don't realize is that the coach is around during practice, and to everyone's surprise leading such practices. He sees things that we don't during the games. Am I wrong?
    That's all well and good, but to quote the great AI "We talking 'bout, practice?"

    At some point the coach needs to take note of what he sees in games. If he's not seeing some of the same things we are seeing, that's a huge problem. He's paid millions of dollars to win games, not coach practice.

  17. #13
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    13,373
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's all well and good, but to quote the great AI "We talking 'bout, practice?"

    At some point the coach needs to take note of what he sees in games. If he's not seeing some of the same things we are seeing, that's a huge problem. He's paid millions of dollars to win games, not coach practice.
    This. I think he's getting paid millions of dollars to develop young players. I hope you are no downplaying the extreme importance of team practices. Jim is getting paid to lead those as well.

  18. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hendricks county, IN
    Posts
    125

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Of course it makes sense. Using a "key" tool less implies that you think its less needed. JOB is chosing the old over the new when the choice has to be made. Hed rather have Troy and Dun for offense than his defensive aces for stops. So far he's only played more for defense when he had no choice. He even reduced tylers minutes

    Its clear that his priorities are outsude shooting and vet players to "win now". When he is forced to chose that's the choice he makes.
    Defensive aces? We have not a single player who would qualify for this label and to suggest otherwise is a stretch. What Pacer strikes fear in the other players on any NBA team?

  19. #15
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,615

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Isn't that what the coach is supposed to do? Put in the best players he thinks he has?

    One thing people don't realize is that the coach is around during practice, and to everyone's surprise leading such practices. He sees things that we don't during the games. Am I wrong?

    He is supposed to go with the lineups that work best. The Hibbert-Granger-Jones-Rush-Ford lineup won 5 straight games. They then lost to a New York team (that they had already beaten) on a back to back, followed by a tough loss to Cleveland (Cleveland was only able to pull away in the closing minutes). That lineup deserved the chance to keep playing. Nothing in practice could be more important than winning 5 straight games, something that hadn't been done here in almost 5 years.

    You seem to think that O'Brien has some logic behind his moves. We're all entitled to our own opinion, but I personally think you are giving him way too much credit. I think the only reason Murphy gets big minutes is because O'Brien is most comfortable with him. We know it can't be because of results on the court, as we are 5-1 (almost 6-0 if it weren't for that collapse against New York) without him and 1-7 with him.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 11-28-2009 at 02:29 PM.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Sollozzo For This Useful Post:


  21. #16
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bloomington
    Posts
    13,373
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He is supposed to go with the lineups that work best. The Hibbert-Granger-Jones-Rush-Ford lineup won 5 straight games. They then lost to a New York team (that they had already beaten) on a back to back, followed by a tough loss to Cleveland (Cleveland was only able to pull away in the closing minutes). That lineup deserved the chance to keep playing. Nothing in practice could be more important than winning 5 straight games, something that hadn't been done here in almost 5 years.

    You seem to think that O'Brien has some logic behind his moves. There's nothing wrong with that, as we're all entitled to our own opinion, but I personally think you are giving him way too much credit. I think the only reason Murphy gets big minutes is because O'Brien is most comfortable with him. We know it can't be because of results on the court, as we are 5-1 (almost 6-0 if it weren't for that collapse against New York) without him and 1-7 with him.
    I'm still not sure whether or not that lineup would've worked. But oh well.

    My intentions were not to give the coach "way too much credit". They were to shut up a lot of people from this mindless drivel.

  22. #17
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    6,837

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    I don't think there's any question that DG is by far our best all around option at PF. Sure, there will be nights when he may be at a disadvantage. However, more often I think he'll be able to create serious mismatches to exploit.

    Other than a little weight and maybe an inch, he certainly gives you the 3 pt dimension of Murphy plus much better defense. His rebound numbers would probably naturally increase and he'd be more effective off the dribble.

    On nights where the opponent ran out a true bruising, low-post scoring machine next to a traditional C, Foster or Murphy could be inserted if need be.Roy, Solo, Foster would have to man the 5 minutes with the small lineup.

    Danny playing minutes at 4 also allows Jones, Rush, Dunleavey, and even Head, who I'd like to see get decent minutes, to stay in the mix. The wing spots are our most loaded position. This gets more of them on the floor more often.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  23. #18
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    16,615

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm still not sure whether or not that lineup would've worked. But oh well.

    Maybe it wouldn't have, but that's just it, all we can say is "maybe" when we should be able to answer this definitively. A lineup that leads the team to it's first 5 game winning streak in 5 seasons has certainly earned the right to keep playing in my book. A tough loss to New York on a back to back and a loss to Cleveland where you hung with them all game certainly isn't enough to butcher the lineup, IMO. But in all honestly, I doubt those losses had anything to do with the lineup change. Had we been on a 7 game winning streak, I still think O'Brien would have changed the lineup and put Murphy back in as a starter. That should tell you what I think of O'Brien as a coach.

  24. #19
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New Pal
    Posts
    7,221
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    JOB is the poster child for this old saying:

    If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

    JOB played those new young defensive players because it's the lineup he had available. As soon as his old standby lineup was available, it's business as usual.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to travmil For This Useful Post:


  26. #20
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    I'd like to add in which I believe was said once before that we're rebuilding and we have a new team this year. JOB has some options with lineups.

    We now have everyone back healthy and I think he'll try out some different lineups until we have success with the players we have.

    Giving Dahntay some equal minutes as Mike can really balance out the offense and defense very well.

    I'm expecting a lineup of Roy-Troy-Danny-Brandon-TJ as the "main lineup", but Mike I think can get a turn at SG here and there.

    Also, Roy is beginning lose time again now that Jeff is back which is the main thing I'm not really liking with what JOB is doing.

    So to put it all together, any coach out there coaching a team like this would try out different lineups with the players he has so it's not JOB's fault on this.

  27. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,733

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    JOB is the poster child for this old saying:

    If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

    JOB played those new young defensive players because it's the lineup he had available. As soon as his old standby lineup was available, it's business as usual.
    I've heard that saying before, and whether it is being used in business or sports, or whatever, it is just plain WRONG.

    You can not simply stand pat. Improvement should be a constant. Otherwise, in the meantime, your competition WILL be improving, leaving you to actually get less than you have gotten before. It is why innovation and change is so important.

  28. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    437

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I've heard that saying before, and whether it is being used in business or sports, or whatever, it is just plain WRONG.

    You can not simply stand pat. Improvement should be a constant. Otherwise, in the meantime, your competition WILL be improving, leaving you to actually get less than you have gotten before. It is why innovation and change is so important.
    Isn't that exactly what the quote is saying?

    JOB is doing what he has always done, and getting what he has always gotten.

  29. #23
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,566

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Isn't that what the coach is supposed to do? Put in the best players he thinks he has?

    One thing people don't realize is that the coach is around during practice, and to everyone's surprise leading such practices. He sees things that we don't during the games. Am I wrong?
    There's a difference between playing the best Players available and playing those that he is most comfortable with.

    I understand the whole "earn minutes on the court by showing that you earned it during practice" principle that JO'B goes by and that we don't see what's going on at practice...so we don't know the real motivations of why he runs certain lineups and who plays with who. But if I am to believe that what lineups we see and who plays with who during Real Game Time is the "best lineup available" and therefore an extension of "whose earning the playing time cuz they are doing the right things"....then something is clearly being "lost in translation" between "practice time" and "game time".

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that if there is something that he sees in practice which leads him to believe that it will work in a real game situation and we've lost our last couple of games...then something must not be right. This isn't a situation where we lost games by a few points and we were in it til the end ( and therefore something is working, we just weren't the "better team" ). Most of the losses were a result of game situations where we dug a deep hole early in the game and couldn't dig our way out....which IMHO loosely translates into a systemic problem....not an anamoly.

    For now, I know that we should "wait and see" what happens. I will have to give JO'B the benefit of the doubt since it takes time to assimilate key rotational players like Dunleavy/Murphy/Foster back into the lineup.

    But would it really surprise you if we all of a sudden see Inferno's minutes to the point where he does become a mere "roleplayer" in favor of Dunleavy taking over the bulk of the backup SG/SF minutes?

    Would it surprise me if we ended up going with a primary PF/C rotation of Murphy/Hibbert/Foster/Granger?

    Although I would hope that we don't see that as much....I wouldn't be surprised if we did. Why? Because....in the end....I feel that JO'B will always default to playing players that he is most comfortable with. This goes back to what I was saying about JO'B going to a 9 or 10 man rotation.....when I see him do it, I'll believe it....until then...it's all "talk".
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-28-2009 at 03:52 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  30. #24
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,566

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd like to add in which I believe was said once before that we're rebuilding and we have a new team this year. JOB has some options with lineups.

    We now have everyone back healthy and I think he'll try out some different lineups until we have success with the players we have.

    Giving Dahntay some equal minutes as Mike can really balance out the offense and defense very well.

    I'm expecting a lineup of Roy-Troy-Danny-Brandon-TJ as the "main lineup", but Mike I think can get a turn at SG here and there.


    Also, Roy is beginning lose time again now that Jeff is back which is the main thing I'm not really liking with what JOB is doing.

    So to put it all together, any coach out there coaching a team like this would try out different lineups with the players he has so it's not JOB's fault on this.
    One of the only reasons that I can see why Dunleavy would get more minutes over Inferno is because of ball-movement on the offensive end. I can see that there are times when I see the ball go to Inferno and it doesn't go to anyone else. I can see this as a valid reasons to play Dunleavy at certain times over Inferno ( if not more ) since he has a tendency to "turn on the blinder" ( while ignoring everyone else on the Team ) when he gets the ball....thus causing the offense to be stagnant. But since he's a very solid finisher and coupled with his defense....I can ( sometimes ) give Inferno the benefit of the doubt.

    The only other sticking point about the SG/SF rotation is when to play BRush. For now, I do not see much of a reason to play BRush over Inferno as BRush hasn't shown that he can be as much of an impact on the offensive end as Inferno has.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  31. #25
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,762

    Default Re: JOB got what he asked for

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Over the summer, JOB complained that he couldn't win because he didn't have good defensive players.

    Larry Bird went out and got him Watson, DJones, and Solo.

    When Murphy and TJ were injured, the new defensive players, much needed in order to win according to JOB, got lots of minutes and went on a five game winning streak, the longest in JOB's career as the Pacers coach.

    The last few games, JOB has decreased the minutes of the defensive players he asked for over the summer to win games: Watson, DJones, and Solo.

    For me, JOB does not back up his talk with action.
    I would like to see O'Brien's quotes because I don't know if he said they would win with better defensive players or would they be a better defensive team with defensive players.

    a big problem that many of us have been discussing for months is that except for Granger our best offensive players are not our best defensive players and vice versa.

Similar Threads

  1. A digest carrol.....
    By Peck in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 89
    Last Post: 12-25-2013, 05:24 PM
  2. A Digest Carol Revisited...
    By Peck in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-19-2009, 11:13 AM
  3. Colts: We never asked for a new stadium
    By Country Boy in forum Indianapolis Colts
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-27-2009, 06:03 PM
  4. Does this look right? (She asked that as well...)
    By Natston in forum Market Square (General Non-Sports Discussion)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-29-2008, 09:40 PM
  5. Harrington has NEVER asked for a trade!
    By Will Galen in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-26-2004, 10:32 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •